Still have shudder at 15mph after changed driveshaft help!

[sl600]

Just came back from a differential and rear axle expert in Los Angeles, he said it is not the diff or the driveshaft but rather the CV axles. He said the grease inside has probably dried out causing this vibration. From reading prior posts on this forum seems like the CV axles are NLA so is cleaning and regreasing the only option now?

[m6bigdog]

But was an LSD even an option on a 1997 850Ci? I do not think so. If it was not an option, then it would have to have been something installed by the prior owners correct? Hardly can imagine them installing a LSD when literally everything else in the car is stock.

The CSi had the LSD, but that I'm aware it was not an option in North America (NA). European owners most likely got the full suite of the typical something close to 1000 BMW options.
So, why would that prevent a NA owner from upgrading the diff to LSD or including a gear reduction as the first best and only upgrade.
I upgraded my 1998 740 as soon as I got it off a 3 yr lease. Sport Suspension came several yrs later
The E31/M73 was already upgraded by BMW with 5.4L engine, 5-Speed, EDC suspension and all it needed was an LSD. Sport suspension option (as offered in Europe) would have been nice, but we got EDC the stock NA option.
When I upgraded my 850/M73 in 2004 with a 3.23:1 LSD, 1995 Euro M5, days after purchase, it was all the rage to install an 3.15:1 LSD from an E32.

[m6bigdog]

Just came back from a differential and rear axle expert in Los Angeles, he said it is not the diff or the driveshaft but rather the CV axles. He said the grease inside has probably dried out causing this vibration. From reading prior posts on this forum seems like the CV axles are NLA so is cleaning and regreasing the only option now?

That was my #2 assumption,
I also anticipate the axle shaft is moving because some of the bearings or CV joint is pitted causing the movement & no longer serviceable.

However, the CSi & M73 cars have a large outer & inner 120mm CV (LK=102mm/Bolt=12mm) joint that is NLA from any CV maker I'm aware of.
Last I saw, the dust boots for CV are still available.
After inspection and all looks serviceable.
I would re-grease, replace dust boots and swap sided to put the power rotation direction on the opposite side of the CV joint.

An option is to replace the diff output flanges and install used complete with new inner CV joint a E31 LK-94mm from the M70/M60/M62.
NEW? Looks like they are available from an aftermarket supplier (China?) but have yet to hear good things so far.

FWIW:
The E38/750 uses a similar output shaft, but it is also NLA and the outer axle CV does not have the ABS ring.
Still good for harvesting an inner CV joint if you can find a low mileage output shaft.

[sl600]

Looks like there is one aftermarket mfg of the entire axle and it ONLY is for the 1995+ models per the MFG SurTrack, some have used it for earlier models and it will not work saying it was too short. If it was too short for the 1991 850 then it means that it is for the later E31 since there were only 2 sizes. I have heard that those who have used it on the M73 say it works fine which is confusing to me because the manufacturer website claims these are for the later models but also state they use M10 bolts which are for the earlier models which used part 33211227018. Price is ridiculously low. So does that mean the bolts are wrong and everything else is right about this SurTrack CV? Enquiring minds want to know. I have ordered 2 to see what the situation is but will try to service the original CV as it is going to be better quality but here is the aftermarket unit https://bimmers.com/product/surtrack/BM8015
Bimmers.com claims these work for the 1997 and they have a fitment guarantee (whatever that means).
I'll report back with feedback if it works on my 1997.

That was my #2 assumption,
I also anticipate the axle shaft is moving because some of the bearings or CV joint is pitted causing the movement & no longer serviceable.

However, the CSi & M73 cars have a large outer & inner 120mm CV (LK=102mm/Bolt=12mm) joint that is NLA from any CV maker I'm aware of.
Last I saw, the dust boots for CV are still available.
After inspection and all looks serviceable.
I would re-grease, replace dust boots and swap sided to put the power rotation direction on the opposite side of the CV joint.

An option is to replace the diff output flanges and install used complete with new inner CV joint a E31 LK-94mm from the M70/M60/M62.
NEW? Looks like they are available from an aftermarket supplier (China?) but have yet to hear good things so far.

FWIW:
The E38/750 uses a similar output shaft, but it is also NLA and the outer axle CV does not have the ABS ring.
Still good for harvesting an inner CV joint if you can find a low mileage output shaft.

[m6bigdog]

Looks like there is one aftermarket mfg of the entire axle and it ONLY is for the 1995+ models per the MFG SurTrack, some have used it for earlier models and it will not work saying it was too short. If it was too short for the 1991 850 then it means that it is for the later E31 since there were only 2 sizes. I have heard that those who have used it on the M73 say it works fine which is confusing to me because the manufacturer website claims these are for the later models but also state they use M10 bolts which are for the earlier models which used part 33211227018. Price is ridiculously low. So does that mean the bolts are wrong and everything else is right about this SurTrack CV? Enquiring minds want to know. I have ordered 2 to see what the situation is but will try to service the original CV as it is going to be better quality but here is the aftermarket unit https://bimmers.com/product/surtrack/BM8015
Bimmers.com claims these work for the 1997 and they have a fitment guarantee (whatever that means).
I'll report back with feedback if it works on my 1997.

Reply Blocked
What fun...

More info:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...i+Output+shaft

[sl600]

Oh no why was it blocked m6bigdog? You can try again see if it works.

Reply Blocked
What fun...

More info:
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...i+Output+shaft

[cartoonz]

Theo Hoffs in Australia has built replacements. Straight bolt on for you, with 44mm (yes) axles. From what I've seen, they look excellent.

[sl600]

Do you have the email / website / contact info for said Theo Hoffs of Australia?

Theo Hoffs in Australia has built replacements. Straight bolt on for you, with 44mm (yes) axles. From what I've seen, they look excellent.

[sl600]

Alright so the SurTrack / Trakmotive BM-8015 arrived and it is a total disaster. The LK=102mm, bolts are M10, center shaft diameter is 30mm.
So the LK is for a later model E31, the bolts are for an earlier model and the center shaft diameter is for neither! Tech support at Trakmotive (the company who makes these) is 855-831-9444 and they are totally clueless about any of this and have no answers. Bimmers.com (which sucks btw-zero customer support & no telephone number) also refuses to send a return label because they claim they sent the correct part.

[m6bigdog]

Alright so the SurTrack / Trakmotive BM-8015 arrived and it is a total disaster. The LK=102mm, bolts are M10, center shaft diameter is 30mm.
So the LK is for a later model E31, the bolts are for an earlier model and the center shaft diameter is for neither! Tech support at Trakmotive (the company who makes these) is 855-831-9444 and they are totally clueless about any of this and have no answers. Bimmers.com (which sucks btw-zero customer support & no telephone number) also refuses to send a return label because they claim they sent the correct part.

PM reply was blocked

LK is the bolt circle for the CV/flange bolts.

Output Shaft overall compressed (approx.) Length=652mm
Differential Flange to Wheel Hub = 575.7 (+/-1/8)
(From BMW drawing: Diff Flange to Wheel Axle 575+73=648mm)

Inner Final-Drive Flange CV Joint Dimensions: (BMW drawing)
CV Joint, O.D.=120mm
CV Joint, Width=32mm
Bolt Circle, LK=102mm
Bolt Bore=12.2mm
Bolt count= 6 each
Spline Teeth = 30

[m6bigdog]

Alright so the SurTrack / Trakmotive BM-8015 arrived and it is a total disaster. also refuses to send a return label because they claim they sent the correct part.

Contact your CC and dispute the charges. "PART received not as described"
You would be surprised how that wakes up the merchant.

- - - Updated - - -

BMW E31 Output Shaft Versions:


33211226933 - LK=102MM/M12/D=33MM - US/Euro - S70/M73, EUR Manual-M70-2.93:1 final drive
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, MANUAL, EUR, (EG11) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, MANUAL, EUR, (EG12) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M73, AUTO, EUR, (EG41) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M73, AUTO, USA, (EG43) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850CSi, Coupe, S70, MANUAL, EUR, (EG91) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850CSi, Coupe, S70, MANUAL, EUR, (EG92) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850CSi, Coupe, S70, MANUAL, USA, (EG93) : Output shaft


33211227018 - LK=94MM/M10/D=27MM - US/EUR Auto - M60/M62/M70
• 8' E31, 840Ci, Coupe, M62, AUTO, EUR, (EF81) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840Ci, Coupe, M62, AUTO, EUR, (EF82) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840Ci, Coupe, M62, AUTO, USA, (EF83) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840i, Coupe, M60, AUTO, EUR, (EF61) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840i, Coupe, M60, AUTO, EUR, (EF62) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840i, Coupe, M60, AUTO, USA, (EF63) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, AUTO, EUR, (EG21) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, AUTO, EUR, (EG22) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, AUTO, USA, (EG23) : Output shaft


33211227148 - LK=94MM/M10/D=32MM - US/EUR Manual - M60/M62/M70-2.65:1 final
• 8' E31, 840Ci, Coupe, M62, MANUAL, EUR, (EF71) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840Ci, Coupe, M62, MANUAL, EUR, (EF72) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840i, Coupe, M60, MANUAL, EUR, (EF51) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 840i, Coupe, M60, MANUAL, EUR, (EF52) : Output shaft
• 8' E31, 850Ci, Coupe, M70, MANUAL, USA, (EG13) : Output shaft

[sl600]

Looks like Theo Hoffs of Australia is making some heavy duty ones with 45mm thick center shafts! Pricing will be $980 for a pair. Sreten @M539 restorations is already in line, I am as well. Anyone else interested in a high quality CV axle can contact Theo tjhoffs@gmail.com and reserve yours today.

[sl600]

Here is a video of Theo's CV axles https://www.facebook.com/100007004892444/videos/1095611359066017/

[m6bigdog]

FWIW:
Attached image:
33211226933 - LK=102MM/M12/D=33MM - US/Euro

Outer Hub Axle CV Joint = 108mm O.D.
Lobro: 2 153 18 47 00 003

Inner CV Joint = 120mm O.D, LK=102mm, 12mm Torx Bolt, 30 spline
Lobro: 7 153 18 01 87 002

Output Shaft Length: (w/o axle)
575.7mm (+/- 18mm CV Joint), Diff Flange to Hub Axle Bearing

[sl600]

Is that for sale lol?

FWIW:
Attached image:
33211226933 - LK=102MM/M12/D=33MM - US/Euro

Outer Hub Axle CV Joint = 108mm O.D.
Lobro: 2 153 18 47 00 003

Inner CV Joint = 120mm O.D, LK=102mm, 12mm Torx Bolt, 30 spline
Lobro: 7 153 18 01 87 002

Output Shaft Length: (w/o axle)
575.7mm (+/- 18mm CV Joint), Diff Flange to Hub Axle Bearing

[m6bigdog]

Is that for sale lol?

LOL, LOL, So, why didn't I buy 2 @ $500 each, back in 2005, lol.
One is not much better than none!!
Well, parts scarcity was not a problem back then (20 yrs ago nothing was NLA) and I needed a test part..

I was trying to eliminate a driveline vibration at 85-90 MPH.
Turned out to be the rear diff alignment (front diff bracket/mount) from the factory.

[sl600]

M6bigdog regarding your theory that "also anticipate the axle shaft is moving because some of the bearings or CV joint is pitted causing the movement & no longer serviceable." Is that something that you believe can happen after only 69K miles? Or it it possible that the grease may have dried out? Because when removing the driveshaft, the grease looked fresh and since they were filled at the same time in 1997 one would think if the driveshaft grease was fine then the CV axle grease should be also? Your thoughts?

That was my #2 assumption,
I also anticipate the axle shaft is moving because some of the bearings or CV joint is pitted causing the movement & no longer serviceable.

However, the CSi & M73 cars have a large outer & inner 120mm CV (LK=102mm/Bolt=12mm) joint that is NLA from any CV maker I'm aware of.
Last I saw, the dust boots for CV are still available.
After inspection and all looks serviceable.
I would re-grease, replace dust boots and swap sided to put the power rotation direction on the opposite side of the CV joint.

An option is to replace the diff output flanges and install used complete with new inner CV joint a E31 LK-94mm from the M70/M60/M62.
NEW? Looks like they are available from an aftermarket supplier (China?) but have yet to hear good things so far.

FWIW:
The E38/750 uses a similar output shaft, but it is also NLA and the outer axle CV does not have the ABS ring.
Still good for harvesting an inner CV joint if you can find a low mileage output shaft.

[m6bigdog]

M6bigdog regarding your theory that "also anticipate the axle shaft is moving because some of the bearings or CV joint is pitted causing the movement & no longer serviceable." Is that something that you believe can happen after only 69K miles? Or it it possible that the grease may have dried out? Because when removing the driveshaft, the grease looked fresh and since they were filled at the same time in 1997 one would think if the driveshaft grease was fine then the CV axle grease should be also? Your thoughts?

FWIW:
I have found when the CV Joint boots are sealed (not leaking grease) there is plenty of grease and it is not caked in the joint.
Mileage is not always an indication of wear as not all CV Joints are the same quality and you could just have gotten a bad/damaged CV Joint (not machined/hardened correctly).
Hence, CV Joints can be warn-out (balls & races pitted) with plenty of grease in the joint.

Output shaft "mileage" may vary, but I don't see this as a common problem with the E31 on this forum and I anticipate that is representative for the wider E31 & BMW community.
If I was a common problem there would be a lot more reply's and complaints of this as an issue world wide.
I drove an E38-740 with 3.38:1 diff gear (LK=94 diff Flange) "drove it like I stole it" for 175k mi. and it is still going strong at 200k mi., on the original output shafts.

Should you have the tools to easily R&R the output shafts, I would suggest swapping side to determine if the vibration changes; as in the drive direction is where the CV Joints wear.
If that works, I would then remove and inspect the inner CV-Joints as they can be found used on a whole host of BMW output shafts until 2010.
After re-greasing an inner CV Joint, you will want to use some Form-A-Gasket (sealant) between the boot skirts/cover and the CV Joints to reseal the CV Joint or they will leak grease after they are bolted to the diff flange.
The outer CV-Joint and torque tube are not designed to be disassembled so if outer axle/CV Joint is bad you need a replacement output shaft.

[cartoonz]

Those CV's can last for pretty much ever - IF they have grease in them. Once that boot rips/leaks, they go bad quite quickly.

[LappingLuke]

I just completely rebuilt a used set I bought from a forum member, even replaced one of the inner joints as it had a rough spot in it. The set that came off my car has 153k miles on it but exhibited zero issues and had no boot rips. I plan to rebuild this set in the near future and make them available. I can't make promises on timing as my car is still apart with the rear suspension parts ready to install but piled up in the corner and the transmission sitting on the floor.

[sl600]

That's why it is hard to believe my CV axles are causing the issue after 69K miles and no rips or tears. I think it may be the transmission output bearing, there is a slight play there and a slight leak, very slight for both so I may have to tackle that first.

Those CV's can last for pretty much ever - IF they have grease in them. Once that boot rips/leaks, they go bad quite quickly.

[m6bigdog]

That's why it is hard to believe my CV axles are causing the issue after 69K miles and no rips or tears. I think it may be the transmission output bearing, there is a slight play there and a slight leak, very slight for both so I may have to tackle that first.

Throwing parts at an E31 as a repair strategy will get expensive very quickly.
As I stressed in Reply #22
Measuring the driveline frequency @ the 15MPH observation will identify what side of the diff the vibration is coming from!!
If it is a drive line rotation issue!!
https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...6#post31014596
There are tools that can effectively do this job and are worth exploring the use with a local driveline/repair shop.

FWIW,
The vibration could also be also a bad rear suspension bushing!! (set the E-Brake and engage D then R, over and over, to observe the rear wheels for unusual motions).