Water Pump replacement for Dummies

[kezug]

I was able to confirm and fix the incorrect wiring on the wiring harness that connects to the dual temp switch. I put some details in this thread: https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...7#post30962547

I tested the fan and it kicks on when AC is on (always had, just verified to be complete).
With AC off, temp continued to rise to normal position on gauge but eventually hit the low temp of 92C and the LOW fan kicked on. (This took some time, it was not immediate)
To test HIGH, I unplugged the wiring harness from the switch and closely watched temp creep past normal center point. This took awhile. I kicked on AC a bit just to work the car. Then turned AC off. Revd a little. Finally temp went a few needle thicknesses to the right. I had OBDII and Torque Pro to watch as well and I let temp raise +10C from when low fan kicked in. I then plugged the harness back onto the switch, and the HIGH Speed fan immediately kicked on and stayed on until temp dropped to the point low fan speed kicks in.

[kezug]

Update -- as per some observations during a lead up to a long trip and now more evidence after my 1600 mile trip. Reminder, I did a complete Coolant refresher, minus the radiator and the 1 hard pipe. All the rest was replaced. The WP I installed was a Saleri. I see NO other coolant leak from anywhere else other than I describe below.

I finally found a "leak". I knew something was there, per my prior post, but I finally located it...read on. I will have questions and seeking some advice.

Prior to the trip, I could smell the sweet coolant odor at times while driving or after car is parked. I finally found a trace amount of coolant coming from behind the clutch fan pulley (No, I have not, nor am planning, to do a fan delete. I have my reasons, they may not be valid but I just am not comfortable nor fully understand how it can be safely deleted. I do not discount those with knowledge at all in that statement. I just cant wrap my brain around removing it.). Anyhow, the trace amount would show up finally as a visual by inspecting 2 tricky, hidden for those new to the car, places and finally 1 odd spot. A little mirror and flashlight is the only way other than smell in those tricky places. I never saw any wetness, only a visual of dried coolant left behind. Those 2 tricky/hidden places are: behind the pulley in front of the water pump/behind the clutch fan AND a line of trace dried coolant on the underside of the thermostat housing.

Lastly, my coolant level is damn near the same level as before my 1600 mile trip. Right at the Kalt/Cold line. If anything, is lower by about a 1/4 inch (if that) -- so this "leak" is a drip that occurs at some point during my drive. I suspect after stopping from a long drive, then starting up soon after that stop. Which I did often.

I am actually very thankful for all your help as I had a very confident driving during my trip. All your sharing and responding gave me the power of information, and comfort knowing my car was performing well. It did. This is lovely car to drive (I will share my trip in another post)

On to some pictures....

1) This is the best pic I could get. This is the outer rim of the pully

Behind the pulley, with a mirror, I can see what must be a leak at the water pump shaft. When it leaks, and the puley spins, it spreads, the dries. I see several of these lines.

I have observed just a few of these spreading splatter lines behind the pulley, but after a 6 day trip and 1600 miles later, I see several layers of these lines. Its obviously a drip happening, not a constant flow leak.



2) the underside of the thermostat housing. I can see this with a small mirror, no way to capture a picture but here is a rendition of what I see.
NOTE: when I first noticed this - I thought maybe the housing is cracked, but when I wipe/clean this area, there was no visible line of any crack. The mounting surface for the housing never shows any coolant/dried coolant, thus concluding that its splatter from behind pulley.



3) This ONLY started to show the coolant splatter marks (I felt like Dexter as I looked for signs of splatter -- LOL). This finally showed up here on Day 4 of my 6 day trip where I was averaging 260 miles per day with a lot of stops (bathroom, look outs, stores, etc...)



I believe I have read Randy describe this happing (will have to find that discussion). I miss Randy. I sure hope he is doing ok and is well.



So, I need some input/advise here.

1) based on the above, all signs say to just replace the water pump -- but for those more experienced, is that true or am I missing something else of a cause?

2) Is there any recommended tips I should be aware of that perhaps during install I did NOT do, and that could have caused this "leak"?

3) I have the M52, so the WP I installed was the following - would you suggest I try this part again as its just a fluke that I got a faulty WP?Water Pump, Composite Impeller - E36, E46, E39, Z3, Z4, M50, M54, S52 - Saleri

(https://www.bimmerworld.com/Water-Pu...r-E36-E34.html)

[kezug]

Bump

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[cyberman]

For diagnosis, I use coolant dye. It fluoresces under UV light, which are also cheap. Just search Amazon for 'coolant dye' and you'll find many offerings. Likewise for a UV light (flashlight), which is also useful when traveling.

[kezug]

For diagnosis, I use coolant dye. It fluoresces under UV light, which are also cheap. Just search Amazon for 'coolant dye' and you'll find many offerings. Likewise for a UV light (flashlight), which is also useful when traveling.

Good tip. I did just that. I have driven in twice now in situations where I should have seen something. I have not. I am not seeing any spray (as observed) nor am I seeing any dye under the UV/Glasses condition...any where.

I will wipe things down, clean up the underside of the thermostat housing (which the dye will tell me definitively if its dripping from above onto the water pump shaft to be splattered by the rotation or its not from there and its coming from the waterpump shaft/splatter.) Then I will give it a good long drive this weekend.

Odd observation though: I put the coolant, at the KALK/COLD line. Drove for 6 days, 266 miles per day/avg and the splatter increased. My theory is the long drives, constant stops presented that situation, regardless of where line level was.

However, that 6th morning, in the AM, that line was about 1/4 lower than KALT/COLD. Expected I guess due to the observed leak/splatter. Its not a ton, its a drip/splatter under certain conditions....6 days of driving with stops, makes sense for the small tiny loss.

However, today the coolant level is BACK to the KALT/COLD line! I am at same level ground, car same time sitting, its cold, I did NOT add any coolant!

What?


So, let me ask. Is the leak at the WP by design if there is a little too much coolant in the system....once the system is happy no more leak? Or is this wishful thinking any any leak at the pump (if confirmed) is a sign to replace?

Cyberman, I think I recalled this similar to your observations on your car...that the happy level for your car was slightly below KALT/COLD line. But until you found that, was there any observed leak like I was having?

[BimmerBreaker]

So, let me ask. Is the leak at the WP by design if there is a little too much coolant in the system....once the system is happy no more leak?

No, it is a sealed system and the only pressure release mechanism is the expansion tank cap which is set at 2.0 bar, which is well above the operating pressure of the cooling system.

If new coolant splatter was observed after the work, it is a sign of a leak either by faulty components or faulty installation.

[kezug]

No, it is a sealed system and the only pressure release mechanism is the expansion tank cap which is set at 2.0 bar, which is well above the operating pressure of the cooling system.

If new coolant splatter was observed after the work, it is a sign of a leak either by faulty components or faulty installation.

I am willing to accept a faulty installation as it was me that did it it. first time ever too.

To stay informed and ahead of time...let's assume it was faulty install...these are my steps for the WP install any room for improvement or accuse install?

Surface are is clean
Wet the o Ring with coolant
Slide into spot and push inward. Should go in with little resistant. Making sure o ring didn't roll off or pinch.
Hand thread in 4 bolts.
Cross tight with 1/4 inch Torque wrench
Final torque is 7 ft lbs.

I then pit fan and clutch back on (yes.. not doing delete and these are NEW OEM fan and Mahle Behr fan clutch)
I will doubly make sure its seated level but there is no wiggle or odd motion on fan)

I did not toque the fan nut but tighten it enough as I read the rotation will toque it.

Anything else or a change in steps to ensure proper install?

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[IndianaRoadster]

I am willing to accept a faulty installation as it was me that did it it. first time ever too.

To stay informed and ahead of time...let's assume it was faulty install...these are my steps for the WP install any room for improvement or accuse install?

Surface are is clean
Wet the o Ring with coolant
Slide into spot and push inward. Should go in with little resistant. Making sure o ring didn't roll off or pinch.
Hand thread in 4 bolts.
Cross tight with 1/4 inch Torque wrench
Final torque is 7 ft lbs.

I then pit fan and clutch back on (yes.. not doing delete and these are NEW OEM fan and Mahle Behr fan clutch)
I will doubly make sure its seated level but there is no wiggle or odd motion on fan)

I did not toque the fan nut but tighten it enough as I read the rotation will toque it.

Anything else or a change in steps to ensure proper install?

Sent from my SM-S911U using Tapatalk

There's a few things that it could be, if the machined surface on the pump is flawed, if the O-ring had an imperfection or the shaft seal is defective. The only thing that you can do is to install another one. Things like this, where it's a pain to do and it's a once in a very long time, I go with the best quality regardless of price.

[robb1887]

My "thought" it was the WP o-ring leak after R&R'ing it for other work ended up being the upper rad hose clamp to the thermostat housing being a smidge loose and allowing seepage at pressure and dripping onto the belts/pulleys and making a mess as you're seeing. The draining of the coolant and visual inspection found zero issue with the WP oring as they are large and unlikely to be the issue but as I had the oring in hand and the system drained I went ahead with the inspection.

All that to say you may want to check your hose clamps and clean everything up and try again

[kezug]

There's a few things that it could be, if the machined surface on the pump is flawed, if the O-ring had an imperfection or the shaft seal is defective. The only thing that you can do is to install another one. Things like this, where it's a pain to do and it's a once in a very long time, I go with the best quality regardless of price.

I have a Saleris coming for replacement under warranty...it will be on standby, I am still observing. As I am reflecting on others input here as well....

My "thought" it was the WP o-ring leak after R&R'ing it for other work ended up being the upper rad hose clamp to the thermostat housing being a smidge loose and allowing seepage at pressure and dripping onto the belts/pulleys and making a mess as you're seeing. The draining of the coolant and visual inspection found zero issue with the WP oring as they are large and unlikely to be the issue but as I had the oring in hand and the system drained I went ahead with the inspection.

All that to say you may want to check your hose clamps and clean everything up and try again

This! I have been watching the upper area for this but I just cant quite find it. When the splatter makes it a message. Did the splatter come from a drip above or did the splatter from below cause the mess above.

I have dye in the system now (thanks Cyberman) and am watching.

Today, I finally saw some of that dye and it just may be as you mention. I cleaned up everything and I took my socket to the 2 hose clamps on the connection to the thermostat and too my surprise, I had some easy turns on the worm drive. Not like I had to crank on it, but I easily and slowly turned until I felt some resistance and stopped. I would guess it was a 3/4 turn on one and maybe a full + little more on the other.

I have a pressure test on now, and will let sit over night.

I will then drive again tomorrow and keep a watchful eye.

[kezug]

Alrighty then...so I got my replacement pump. I am thinking from what I see, is that the Saleris pump I installed had something amiss with its shaft/seal. It really is hard to determine that 100%, but I checked extremely well for the thermostat housing above and while its shows residue of Coolant (Dye), its pattern is from the splatter coming from the WP. I tried hard to check that its not a drip above, hitting the pulley, pump below, then splattering. I am about 99% sure its not from above.


However, I do see the ever so slightest nick in the entryway (outer most part) for the Water pump. This is damn near the 12 O'clock spot and you can see this nick.

Is there ANY possible way, that could cause a slow drip (esp under long driving situations)? Again, I dont see THAT being the cause, as I just do not see dye marking running on the outter edge of WP to drip down, then splatter...its too clean up in that area.


However, is there ANY such "Gasket" maker stuff I can wipe on that spot with my finger BEFORE I put the new pump in?









Something like this (oil gasket maker?)?







Or SHOULD I NOT use the ABOVE and go by this (Permetex Water Pump and Thermostat housing Gasket Maker (product 22071)
https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/permatex/oil--chemicals---fluids/adhesives---sealants/gasket-makers---sealers/166cc2694828/permatex-0-5-ounce-rtv-silicone-sealant/per0/22071?q=gasket+makers+%26+sealers&pos=1

[BimmerBreaker]

The seal is made from the o-ring that slides inside. A nick in that section won't cause a leak.

[kezug]

The seal is made from the o-ring that slides inside. A nick in that section won't cause a leak.

Thank you BimmerBreaker. This helps me keep going without worry now and having to go get something proper to "seal"

[kezug]

Update. Here are pictures of the Water Pump that was suspect as the cause for my slow but nagging coolant leak. Surely seems like it came from the shaft. This would leak only after driving for a bit and stopping and starting multiple times. It never puddled anywhere, but certainly splattered as the pictures above show.

Here is evidence of the parts removed. NOTE: This is a Saleri Water Pump, that was newly installed in July but only found to be faulty over time and probably right after install it started its "leak" but I didnt know until a few days or a couple weeks as it doesn't leak constant. It was sneak as it would drip from shaft, then pully would spray it everywhere, but the splatter marks eventually told the story of its origin.









Now that I have the replacement in, I have driven for about 200 miles now, on driving conditions that should have showcased a leak like before, but now, nothing is leaking! I am happy. I dont smell that sweetness at times I did before.


I am also a bit shocked as to how much faster and with greater confidence I handled the swap. I did have to disconnect the upper hose end at the radiator to get the fan and clutch out. I was trying to see if I could remove the fan easily if I ever decide to do a fan delete, but I was NOT able to clear things. Perhaps if I undid the shroud, I could have lifted that a little to wiggle it out of the tight space but I just undid the connection of the upper hose at radiator side as I had to refill system anyways.
Oh, and refill was extremely fast and in one shot. I followed the steps noted above in earlier posts to a T, and the key is, fill slowly. I did not have to bleed by squeezing at all. I did let car warm up and cracked the bleeder a few time (only time dealing with that bleeder) just to get a little air out.

All, only because of this forum. I am sharing my journey only as its something I can do to return back to the forum community with hope it can help someone else.

[BimmerBreaker]

It does look like the shaft seal was leaking, which is pretty bad luck as I've never seen that in any that I've installed and I've installed more than I can count (or at least more than I can remember). Glad it is sorted now

[kezug]

It does look like the shaft seal was leaking, which is pretty bad luck as I've never seen that in any that I've installed and I've installed more than I can count (or at least more than I can remember). Glad it is sorted now

Dang, that sounds like bad luck. I am going to have a watchful eye and be sure it does start up again. If that happens, then I will have to put focus on the new fan and fan clutch that I installed in July (BMW Fan and Mahle/Behr Clutch). The force of that, if either has a defect, causing anything to wear out suddenly on the shaft seal? What if its not properly balanced? Or was it just possible I got one that just came out of manufacturing with a rare defect?

[kezug]

So far, so good. I have no evidence (dye under UV light, nor seeing any splatter or smelling any coolant!). This is after about 350 miles now. I am happy!

But, I have discovered something...wondering what those more familiar have to say about my observation below.

My levels are good at Kalt/Cold lines. Temp is good on the needle and my OBDII good. Heater works well at idle, plenty hot and no EXTREME heat at rev or highway.

But oddly and unsure if always this way or now something new, with my car at plenty of rest overnight and COLD, hose #7 feels empty when I squeeze that hose. I cant recall if I ever observed that before and assuming not. I feel as if no water in there.
I will add that prior to this 1 observation, I drove the car yesterday with AC on for alittle bit and cabin air recirc, nothing else. Rest of drive was full off and with cold/heat dial full max. That very well could have just ran that hose empty???

Picture for Hose #7 is the Hose f water valve and engine return hose - 64218401808

[COLOR=rgba(0, 0, 0, 0.87)][/COLOR]

[kezug]

So, curious, using the fill coolant method through upper radiator hose...should the cold/heat dial be at full cold max (which is to have the heater water valve closed) or should I have put that to a any other setting other than cold max so that the valve was open allowing flow thru (with engine off of course)?

[rasmuw]

The reason for filling through the upper radiator hose is to make it the highest point in the system, rather than the heater. If the valve to the heater is closed, you cannot fill the heater. Any setting other than "full cold max" will open the valve.

[kezug]

The reason for filling through the upper radiator hose is to make it the highest point in the system, rather than the heater. If the valve to the heater is closed, you cannot fill the heater. Any setting other than "full cold max" will open the valve.

So, while I may have filled the system with the heater closed, I missed that fill. But starting the vehicle with expansion tank cap off to watch the coolant stream out of the vent (which did happen) must have meant it was OK.

Also, tonight, with heater on and car coming to temp. That hose I spoke of, #7 was completely pressurized and no longer empty. I think it just went empty because I had heater off (valve closed) for long periods.

Me=overthinking it