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Thread: Ls1/t56 into e36 M3/4/5

  1. #1
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    1998 m3 3/4/5 LS1/t56

    Ls1/t56 into e36 M3/4/5

    I am about to start my ls1/t56 swap. I just bought a 99ls1/t56 out of a 99ws6 with 40k on it, with harness, driveshaft, ecm and hurst shifter for 3500.
    I am a decent fabricator and have access to a machine shop so i am trying to make my own mounts. I am hoping to find a good driveshaft shop so I can have the t56 out put and bmw 4bolt flanges mated to a new shaft. If not i will just buy the vorshlag stuff as they seem to have a great kit. I will need there headers, and steering shaft for starters. Have any of you guys found a "magic" diff ratio for the t56. The stock 3.23 that i have seems too long for the car, as i want to take advantage of the gears. I will be commuting with the car eventually so i would like to keep the rpms low enough to get decent mpgs at the same time. The 3.23 seems that it would render 5th and 6th to just highway gears.

    I used a online gear ratio calculator to get this as it would give you guys a decent idea of the gearing.


    Stock 3.23 at 75 1650rpm 6th
    redlines
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    6200 53 79 109 141 191 282

    3.46 at 75mph 1760rpm 6th
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    6200 50 74 101 132 178 264

    3.73 at 75mph 1900rpm 6th
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    6200 46 69 94 122 165 244

    3.91 at 75mph 2000rpm 6th
    1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
    6200 44 66 90 117 158 233

    here are a few pics, I will start to properly document the swap in a few weeks when i am done with college.




  2. #2
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    woo, another four door.

    mounts are easy - the headers are the hard part.

    buy the jagsthatrun rear 4 bolt diff flange and a custom driveshaft of your choosing in the 2.5-2.75" diameter area and get a driveshaft done for ~300-400 instead of the ~600 that vorschlag wants

  3. #3
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    ^What he said!! Mounts took me a weekend to make, start to finish... headers took me 60+ hours.
    I'm glad to see all these 4 doors poppin' up. I drive my car every day and I am very happy with my 3.91 rear gear choice and I'm positive that anyone running this combo with a 3.91 will tell you the same. I still get mid 20 mpgs and get over 30mpg on the highway.
    Last edited by 357i; 04-13-2011 at 10:20 AM.

  4. #4
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    sweet, If i can get 30mpg i will be happy, how are you liking the zo6 cams? I was thinking about some, or maybe something more aggressive like the comp 224 or maybe 228.

  5. #5
    M5Hunter is offline Still has a E39 Supporting Vendor
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    Only one cam =) If I was to do it over, I would def go bigger, and I will soon.

  6. #6
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    e36 m3 Ls2, 318I, 325is
    ms3?

  7. #7
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    Texas Speed had a nice combo deal a few weeks ago. I went with the 228R cam, dual springs, pushrods. I also got an LS2 timing chain which a lot of LS guys recommend when changing cams.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHhhhh View Post
    Texas Speed had a nice combo deal a few weeks ago. I went with the 228R cam, dual springs, pushrods. I also got an LS2 timing chain which a lot of LS guys recommend when changing cams.
    How many monies.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Nguyen View Post
    How many monies.
    Here are the two kits they offer. One with dual springs, and the other with beehive.

    http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...MID=1&catid=49

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHhhhh View Post
    Texas Speed had a nice combo deal a few weeks ago. I went with the 228R cam, dual springs, pushrods. I also got an LS2 timing chain which a lot of LS guys recommend when changing cams.
    Do you have a video of the car running with this kit by any chance?
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by bimerok View Post
    Do you have a video of the car running with this kit by any chance?
    My car isn't running yet, but there are a bunch on YouTube:

    http://www.youtube.com/results?searc...=ls1+228r&aq=f

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by SHhhhh View Post
    Here are the two kits they offer. One with dual springs, and the other with beehive.

    http://www.texas-speed.com/shop/cate...MID=1&catid=49
    I was just eyeballing that kit yesterday.

    Spend the 25 bucks and have pat g spec a perfect cam for your car and texas speed will have it made from comp for the same price as that kit. Depending on what you're intentions with the car are a lot of the off the shelf ls cams are brutal to the valvetrain to make more peak power - there is always new hotness in cam profiles, lsl, eps, epl, etc. get a cam setup exactly for your car and engine rather than an off the shelf and be way happier.

  13. #13
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    I can now focus my nights on the swap since my classes are done. Today i trimmed the pcm harness from the ls1 getting the evap and rear o2's removed. I am waiting on the x20 connector until i can merge the harness, I tracked down a lot of info on merging the x20 with the fbody but i cant seem to find a decent diagram to the connectors circled in the below picture. In my master diagram it seems to be labeled as x69 and x6031 but i may be wrong. The x69 seems to be for abs/asc.

    Last edited by birdman2447; 05-10-2011 at 02:00 AM.

  14. #14
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    middle is the trans wiring (at least it is for the auto 97 I worked with) and the other smaller one is mostly for emissions stuff.

    google for the bmw official TIS docs for "1997 BMW 318is-c - 328i-c Electrical Troubleshooting Manual" and you'll find the model year specific wiring diagrams that will layout each connector for each model year

  15. #15
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    I didn't find the year or the man. vs auto for your swap. All I see is that your car must be 1996+ OBDII model because of the 3rd, smaller connector.

    In any case, this info is based on my 1996 Manual.

    The middle 25 pin connector is x69. In my application it only had 4 pins in it all dealing with traction control/ABS. I did not have to do anything with it.

    The last one, smaller connector is x6031. It is dealing with misc. stuff and I used 2 pins out of that connector. Pin 1 is Check Engine light to dash. Pin 4 is your OBDII data wire for OBDII connector.
    - 96 328is 6.0L. (LS1 to LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ad.php?2098938)
    - 96 328is 5.7L. (LS1 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1289987)
    - 95 ///M3 6.0L. (LS2 build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1619249)

    - 97 ///M3. (e46 Fender Flares/track car build thread: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1727098)
    - 96 328is (Dual Fuel Pump to Surge Tank thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/sh...ad.php?1964025)

  16. #16
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    thanks for the info guys, since i have access to a lathe do you think the best clutch line configuration is to turn down the t56 line to attach to the e36 master as outlined in another members write up?

  17. #17
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    braaps method is probably the easiest if you have the original clutch line

  18. #18
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    So whats the general consensus on cam options. I know there is the custom option as mentioned above. I am thinking the TSP 224/228 with a 113lsa for a nice idle, any opinions?

  19. #19
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    Contact Patrick G on LS1 tech he specs awesome cams. Especially the new stuff using EPS lobes.

    Here is the cam I ordered based on his input.

    226/226 .598”/.605” 116LSA +1 advance (with 1.7 ratio rockers)
    Comp EPS/LXL lobes 54-000-11 3 bolt cam core
    13117R/13158R HR116LSA +1 advance (115 installed intake centerline)

    Cam Valve Events 0.006 0.050 0.200
    Intake Duration - ID 275 226 148 13117R EPS lobe .598"
    Exhaust Duration - ED 278 226 147 13158R LXL lobe .605"
    Lobe Center Angle - LSA 116 116 116
    Intake Centerline - ICL 115 115 115

    Intake Valve opens - IVO 22.5 -2 -41 BTDC (- indicates ATDC)
    Intake Valve closes - IVC 72.5 48 9 ABDC
    Exhaust Valve Opens - EVO 76 50 10.5 BBDC
    Exhaust Valve Closes - EVC 22 -4 -43.5 ATDC (- indicates BTDC)
    Exhaust Centerline - ECL 117 117 117
    Overlap 44.5 -6 -84.5 degrees

  20. #20
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    For a little update. I ended up buying the vorshlag mounts, with out a foam block model it is very hard to get the driveline angles perfect. I have just finished re routing the brake lines and abs pump. Now i need to figure out fuel and coolant routing. I just picked up a corvette fpr but lost on the correct way to attach to it. I am going to purchase the russell -6 an stuff to get from the fpr to the engine. The bmw uses the same diameter hard lines for feed and return while the corvette fpr uses 5/16 and 3/8? i dont mind connecting them with high quality rubber line and clamps but i want the rubber to fit well before i clamp it. What have you guys done that worked?

  21. #21
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    I just bought -5 AN and -6 AN hardware and flaring the stock lines and then using russel adapters from the FPR to convert to -6AN, also need to use a -6an to -5 an converter.

    That way there is no rubber at all.

  22. #22
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    Finally posting some pics of the progress, I have it mostly ready to test fire. A few wiring things to tie up and waiting on the vorshalg headers that should be ready in a few weeks. I am also still debating on either running dual 2.5 inch or a single 3(would love 3.5 but i cant see it not rubbing).

    I am running the stock gm power steering cooler that goes inline the upper radiator hose. I dont really like it cluttering up the engine bay but I can going to run it for now as i came with the engine.

    I have 2 wires from the GM pcm that i am unsure about. Did you guys need to do any thing with these

    pcm red pin 45 which is a white wire(evap canister vent valve control)
    I have the gm pressure sensor wired where the bmw one was. The vent valve in the bmw trunk mounted canister i have unplugged so it stay open. With the gm system i thought the evap valve was only the one mounted on the intake manifold which i do have wired.

    My other wiring question was the two gray wires, spark retard signal and clutch pedal position sensor. Correct me if i am wrong, I have the pro hp tuner on the way so a assume i can just disable these if need be.

    I have read through many of the other wiring threads on wring the relays. I have a set of 3 relays taken from a e30. How have you guys split up the pink wires(what to put on what relay and how many amp fuse)

    I think all these pink wires require relay switched 12v but correct me if i am wrong. I grew up in a family of contractors so only have experience with AC untill this.

    pass O2
    drivers O2
    2 pink wires to t56
    MAF
    pass injectors
    drivers injectors
    ecu
    fuel pump

    And the chrome 19's arnt going on the car for long, just loaners while i wait for a set of dforce/starspecs
    Last edited by birdman2447; 07-07-2011 at 11:38 PM.

  23. #23
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    Looking great, good update.*
    Evap is something you can disable with HP-T Pro, in the DTC section. Good choice on the tuning software, you won't be disappointed. HP-T forum is an invaluable resource beyond the softwares already helpful help files. Most importantly as I learned first hand after hearing it before, cuddle up the scanner portion of the software, get VERY intimate with it then just "look" through the editing side of HP-T, then cuddle up more with scanner portion. If you have a GM OBD-II vehicle you drive, use it for the scanner, you'll be amazed at much more clearly you'll understand and interpret your data logs when it comes tome to make competent changes to the PCM tune in your project, not guessing willy nilly or making changes that could adversely affect aspects of drivability and performance, somewhat common issue with newbies who don't understand the scanner portion.*

    *Clutch anticipate switch wire for the PCM. Not deletable in the software, but can be ignored which some do. Keep in mind GM uses that for some of the IAC (Idle Air Controller), strategy as well as other things such as emissions, ignition timing and fueling during gear changes up and down and coming to a stop, helps to keep drivability seamless, and also for emissions. In extreme cases, ignoring the clutch anticipate could cause idle under/over swing issues when coming to a stop or a slight bog/surge immediately after a gear change, etc.*
    If planning to use the GM cruise control, it is a must.

    Hope that helps*
    Paul

    '97 Sedan, Cosmos Meconium, Click ME for the build thread.

  24. #24
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    thanks, i will try and wire it in using the bmw clutch sensor then. Do you know how what the gm ecu expects for the switch signal? Is the gm ecu expecting a normally open or normally closed switch?

  25. #25
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    If I remember right the clutch switch is backwards from the bmw one, the chevy expects normally closed to 12v instead of normally closed to ground.

    The evap in the trunk should be plugged in, there is the vent solenoid and the purge solenoid, two didn't thing s, I fought with that for longer than I care to admit.the bmw one plugs in and works fine on the gm stuff.only needed if you care about emissions though

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