Official M50 Manifold Swap Thread

[casperlynn]

How frustrating! I am getting completely opposing views (from two very knowledgeable peeps in this forum) regarding a DME upgrade (specifically European fuel maps to suite the M50 manifold swap on my car). One says yes, the other states it is a money that should be spent elsewhere......geeze, I really depend on this forum for professional and accurate info. Especially when spending hundreds of $$$'s

[MParallel]

Why would it be a waste? That would mean our (native) Euro maps are not good for the M50 manifold.

I'm having none of that.

But it's like asking what is the best oil. Ask 20 members, get 20 different answers.

[casperlynn]

MP, I will know the truth soon. Hakentt shipped out the DCM yesterday. " Euro is MS41.0 and I have the ability to copy the main maps out of the ms41.0 euro dme into ms41.1 us version".

Stupid me...I have a vision last night.....I forgot to plug in the IAT that I relocated under the intake elbow......that will resolve my erratic idle lol!

Yeah, you are right. Be it oil, spark plugs, CAI's, gear oil, leather conditioner, etc.........it is all about opinions. Majority rules? lol!

[Pdwight]

Opinions matter, but there a re a few I have grown to trust on here.....Flyfish, JD Strickland, Mparallel, Slocar and a handful of others...so I will continue to wait until enough field research has been done.

[MParallel]

Finally finished my M50 install yesterday. To bad my GT1 diagnistics head can't connect to the car. I probably have broken a wire somewhere as it never gave problems.

That way I could have reset all the adaptive values so the DME learns the M50 quicker.

So it will probably be even better after a few days. Haven't droven too much with it yet, but first impression is very positive. It's hard to tell exactly what it feels like. It feels much more free revving. I hardly, if at all, feel any less torque down low. Do keep in mind I have bigger TB's as well, as otherwise the restriction of the stock intake is just moved forward to the stock TB's.

The guy I got the kit from states it's only moved up by 250rpm. Well in that case, with the car revving more easily, I guess that extra 250rpm is reach quickly.

The change in sound, while subtle, makes the car more agressive. And the M50 intake by itself just looks big (and it is).

PS: my dipstick bracket now lines up perfectlt with the manifold bracket. I was 100% bet-my-life-on-it sure the dipstick tube was all the way down. There even is a flange and when you push down untill the flange reaches the sump, it just stops dead.

Well I'll be damned, something just didn't look right. I put on my workshop gloves, grabbed the tube with 2 hands and gave it a hard push down.

It went down by another 10-15mm and made the bracket line up perfectly.

So that O-ring people talk about, really is that hard to get by, even when the tube is already inserted.

Now all that is left is get the M50 fuel rail cover to finish off the look.

Idle seems to hold much better now, since I cleaned the hell out of the ICV while it was off.


I'll post some side-by-side pics of the TB's later on. This guys did a phenomenal job on the bigger stock TB's.

[casperlynn]

Finally finished my M50 install yesterday. To bad my GT1 diagnistics head can't connect to the car. I probably have broken a wire somewhere as it never gave problems.

That way I could have reset all the adaptive values so the DME learns the M50 quicker.

So it will probably be even better after a few days. Haven't droven too much with it yet, but first impression is very positive. It's hard to tell exactly what it feels like. It feels much more free revving. I hardly, if at all, feel any less torque down low. Do keep in mind I have bigger TB's as well, as otherwise the restriction of the stock intake is just moved forward to the stock TB's.

The guy I got the kit from states it's only moved up by 250rpm. Well in that case, with the car revving more easily, I guess that extra 250rpm is reach quickly.

The change in sound, while subtle, makes the car more agressive. And the M50 intake by itself just looks big (and it is).

PS: my dipstick bracket now lines up perfectlt with the manifold bracket. I was 100% bet-my-life-on-it sure the dipstick tube was all the way down. There even is a flange and when you push down untill the flange reaches the sump, it just stops dead.

Well I'll be damned, something just didn't look right. I put on my workshop gloves, grabbed the tube with 2 hands and gave it a hard push down.

It went down by another 10-15mm and made the bracket line up perfectly.

So that O-ring people talk about, really is that hard to get by, even when the tube is already inserted.

Now all that is left is get the M50 fuel rail cover to finish off the look.

Idle seems to hold much better now, since I cleaned the hell out of the ICV while it was off.


I'll post some side-by-side pics of the TB's later on. This guys did a phenomenal job on the bigger stock TB's.

Awesome! No vacume leaks ? Sounds like we scored in the "trouble free" department. Guess I did not have a problem with the dipstick because I never removed it. I only forgot to connect the IAT...quick fix to fix my idle problem lol!

[MParallel]

I pulled the dipstick tube because I couldn't get the hose of that runs from the cpv to the dipstick tube. This was the perfect time to replace all 3 parts of the crankcase ventilation ss mine could be nearly 16 years old and be a possible timebomb, as I do lots of shorts trips, so I usually have more gunk than normal.

Well I took my bloody time, 17 hours in total, cleaning lots of stuff at the same time. I didn't want to hurry things and make sure everything was in place and no bolt forgotten to be torqued down.

[casperlynn]

Well I took my bloody time, 17 hours in total, cleaning lots of stuff at the same time. I didn't want to hurry things and make sure everything was in place and no bolt forgotten to be torqued down.

My CCV hose was just sticking up from the dipstick. Just plugged it in

Just to be safe I installed new everything though all were in working order. I was surprised the original, plastic CCV vent tube was so clean. Like you, I took my sweet time and triple checked everything.....except the IAT sensor lol!

I received the M50 tuned DME today but will wait until this weekend to install/test it. It is just too damn hot right now.....high 90's.

Glad you conversion went well!

[SupaFIN]

What about cam timing? Have someone ever researched if there is some benefit of advancing intake or retarding exhaust or somethig vice versa?

I'm currently running rebuilded 2.8 M52 with S52 cams, S50 (euro) ITB's, lightweight flywheel and full euro m3 exhaust.
I haven't done yet software but i'm going to do that next.
Before that I wanted to know if there is any benefit of adjusting timing with those S52 cams, now its in factory position using M52 timing tools.

When i'm looking cam position with diagnostics it says intake is advanced about 15 degrees, as all stock M52's I have seen it's 20 degrees at idle and +20 to that when vanos switches on.
Should intake timing be same 20degrees like in M52 cams or is this normal? Is cam centerline same?
Because lift and duration is almost same as Schrick cams I guess it should pull littlebit stonger even without software.

I did dyno run last summer when I was using stock intake manifold and it gave 222hp.
I haven't done any dyno run yet with ITB's but I feel like I lost some low end torq but it flows better top end, but not soo good as I imagined it would.

But anyway, the main questions is that cam timing. Any help on that?
Thanks!

[MParallel]

^^

How did you fit the ITB's to the M52 block? Many have tried, but the oil filter housing sits in the way.

I'd like to see that setup.

[SupaFIN]

With "some" modification
I used custom built adapter plate, moved TPS 180 degrees, moved first TB linkage to other side of mounting point so that vanos solenoid and cable can go thru.
And I had to make 90 degree adapter for crankcase ventilation and use S50 oilseparator and other things.

[MParallel]

Wow nicely done. Pretty big job for sure. I see you also fitted M3 oil filter housing and oil cooler.

Which such modding, as nice as it is, why not fit an M3 engine?

[LincolnW]

OMG I want. Where can I find more info on this?!

[MParallel]

Does anyone know what it takes to fit the M50 fuel rail cover to the M52 fuel rail?

Or is it a direct fit?

[casperlynn]

Does anyone know what it takes to fit the M50 fuel rail cover to the M52 fuel rail?

Or is it a direct fit?

Mine has not come in yet. It has to be trimmed underneath somehow because the M52 fuel rail is a bit longer than the M50.

[E36M3E]

Does anyone know what it takes to fit the M50 fuel rail cover to the M52 fuel rail?

Or is it a direct fit?

it will bolt up but it will sit high. to fit closely and normally you need to cut about 3/8ths inch off of the mounting points of the cover...approx 9.5mm. cut through the brass and plastic but leave enough for the bolt to hold the cover down.

then you need to remove the o2 sensor wire clips and tie down the wires very tightly to the fuel rail/wiring box. if your cover doesn't sit level or sticks up unevenly it's because the wires/etc are pushing it up...they need to be tied down tightly. the m50 cover on the m52 fuel rail doesn't leave much room.

-E

[MParallel]

Ah thanks. Are you specially referring to the plastic wire clips or the metal clips of the O2 sensor plugs itself?

Because the wires are as tight going over the wiring box as possible.

[casperlynn]

you need to cut about 3/8ths inch off of the mounting points of the cover...approx 9.5mm. cut through the brass and plastic but leave enough for the bolt to hold the cover down.

then you need to remove the o2 sensor wire clips and tie down the wires very tightly to the fuel rail/wiring box.

-E

Thanks Eric

Well, that was easy enough. I used my table grinder to shave down the mounts on the underside of the cover about 3/8". Leaving enough brass to give integrity. Remove the O2 sensor clips and tied the sensors flush between the fuel rail and wire harness. The cover looks OEM as it should.........I also went ahead and removed the preheater hoses to the throttle body and re-installed my tower strut..........I'm done tinkering now

[E36M3E]

The metal clips holding the O2 sensor plugs need to go. And the plugs and what not need to be tied down tightly. Its a tight fit. The cover sits very low and flat.

Hope this helps.

-E

[PHARMDVIPER]

finishing up mine tomorrow...then TRM software :


getting the fuel rail back on...what A PITA!!!!...I tried putting it back on with the injectors in the intake but christ my back is killing me...I ground the fuel rail mounts down and took the intake off about 8 times to bend the fuel lines...I took all the injectors out and put them on the fuel rail and then put the injectors in the manifold..that seems to work and ill finish it up tomorrow...104* heat FTL I am beat

[SupaFIN]

So, any news about cam timing? Has anyone measured stock M52 or S52 cam timings?

I just did dyno run with ITB's and surprisingly there was no low end tq loss at all compared to stock manifold under 3k rpm.
After that in mid range there was noticable loss in tq and hp but after 6k power curve went up, but I don't care about that since I will run with stock rev limiter.

I'm just thinking why I didn't lose bottom tq and gain any power in upper-mid end?
Since I have larger runners => air flow at lower speed should decrease => cylinder filling is decreased => loss of torque.
Ofcourse I'm still running stock software but I doubt if custom software mapping would help in this case so much?
There must be something "wrong" with cam timing because idle is way too smooth and bottom torque is still there

#1 and #2 are with stock M52 manifold and #3 and #4 with S50 ITB's.

[MParallel]

finishing up mine tomorrow...then TRM software :


getting the fuel rail back on...what A PITA!!!!...I tried putting it back on with the injectors in the intake but christ my back is killing me...I ground the fuel rail mounts down and took the intake off about 8 times to bend the fuel lines...I took all the injectors out and put them on the fuel rail and then put the injectors in the manifold..that seems to work and ill finish it up tomorrow...104* heat FTL I am beat

I did that at first too. But then realized I could never get the clips that hold the injectors to the fuel rail in back on.

Actually getting the injectors in itself was pretty easy, after someone gave me the golden tip of slightly lubing the top and bottom O-rings with a bit of engine oil. Injectors popped in with ease.

You only need to saw a tiny bit of the front fuel rail mount to make it fit. At least with the machined adapter brackets my kit has. (some people just swap in an M50 fuel rail).

I don't recall needing to bend the fuel lines, or maybe a very small bit.

PS: your car in your sigpic? Would like to see some complete shots.

[PHARMDVIPER]

im gonna finish it up today...it isn't much bending of the fuel lines but I was doing it in small increments

also...I ended up blocking off the hose that runs to the vacuum canister(that works the exhaust flap)....any problems with doing this? it was my one extra vacuum line and I would have had to add another tee just for it so I said screw it since I don't have the stock exhaust anyway

here is a pic

[keeslinger31]

Should be fine my tank melted so I just completely removed it.

[PHARMDVIPER]

SHE RUNS!!!!!....no check engine lights and idles like nothing changed! went for about a 45 minute drive and this thing pulls like a raped ape up top

I guess plugging the vacuum canister is ok!