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Thread: M coupe getting some love.

  1. #1
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    M coupe getting some love.

    Happy Easter!! Here is a opportunity to re introduce my self, start a "build" thread. I have been doing things as they needed it on my current BMW M Coupe, but now its time to take it a step further for various reasons.

    Well, its about time I get my hands really dirty. I have had the opportunity to own and drive 4 different M coupes. Two silvers, two blacks. Ironically, both silver cars had superchargers (AA rotex and a Dinan), and both black cars had Turbos. One was built by Carl here on BFC. Incredible and very sterile build, but not sorted. That car had been owned by one of my best college buddies in Pheonix (also the Silver AA supercharged car). My original plan after my 94 FDRX7 burned down in a shop fire in San Diego (Hometown) was to take the insurance money, buy a S/C coupe, and then convert it over to turbo. I purchased a nice silver M coupe with Dinan Supercharger (2007), was about to take things apart, then Omar Sezer (OZ3M here on BFC) sold his coupe. I ended up with it. Omar was way ahead of his time, with enough money to push AA to produce an amazing car Turbo M coupe.

    I have dyno'd the car several times over the years, always around the 500 whp mark at around 19 psi. I have done several things, and posted most everything here. For those really interested in the history, you can search it out. In a nut shell, the first major change, if you can call it that, was when the AEM twin spark module gave me a hear attack about 4 years ago and it internally caught fire. No damage, just a new unit M&W unit from Mike Radowski. I have put around 15,000 miles on the car over the last 7 years and am not afraid to take it to the local road track (Miller Motorsports Park), and have lots of fun with on the street. Jr (Flexer) and I have been best of friends for years, since I gave him his first ride in one of his favorite cars (1993 RX7) when he was 18, I was 28. Since then, its been nothing but cars, even after two marriages (one for each of us and 4 kids (all mine lol) and countless projects both work related and car related.

    Currently: AA built motor with forged internals (I believe weisco pistons and pauter rods), 8.5:1 compression, AA turbo cams (don't know the spec). AEM EMS with GM flex fuel sensor and Ziextronics ethanol batch analyzer (JR and I installed that), Dual Walboro 255 pumps (part of the original AA build), 1200cc fic injectors (high Impedance, just replaced the AA 60lbers), 2.79 Gears, stock 5 Speed trans (New crate BMW trans installed when I purchased the car), AA dual mass clutch (drives very nicely), and my favorite: Race Logic Traction control.

    Yesterday, JR's wife was gone out of town for family stuff, and he knew I was in the middle of a house project, so like a good friend, he came over and helped. We laid tile till about noon, then said, hey, lets swap out the 4088 and install the 4094.........

    Dropped the exhaust I custom built this past year, made of a 3.5" down pipe, to dual 3". One muffler has a 3" has just one rear magnaflow muffler and a Apexi Cable Actuated shut off valve, and the other has 2 additional mufflers. The exhaust is as quiet as it was when AA built it. That setup was a single 3" down pipe to a 3" in and dual 2.5" out mid muffler (magnaflow also), to dual 3" magnaflows (I kept them). The exhaust was really beat up, and it hung down low, so it was an opportunity to try my new tig welding/fabbing (took a night class with JR and another good friend) skills improving upon what was there. Now that its been heat cycled with some sweet smelling E85, its looks really nice:







    With the V bands, it dropped out in a minute.


    After beating our knuckles for a while it gave birth to the original 4088, what a proud papa (thats jr):



    Then from there, things got worse, or better (in my book, a problem always presents the opportunity to improve). We saw that the motor mount was cracked, and in my own opinion, a bit of a mess as far as the design/fabrication, but holding together for over 65,000 miles of 500+ WHP. Also, the log manifold that AA provided Omar was a t-3 originally, but then modified to a t-4 flange. The car has produced amazing power is incredibly driveable. But, things have come a long way since 2000 and I knew that this manifold would not do a 4094 justice the way it could perform.




    Motor Mount:



    The new Turbo (4094r, 1.19 A/R):



    Side by Side:



    Ironically, I was told that the A/R on the 4088 was a 1.19, but in reality, it was a .95, go figure.



    And the ultimate money shot, not because its anything special, but man was it a pain in the butt to get the manifold out. Had to lift the motor, take off the wastegate pipe from the top of the exhaust manifold (impossible to get off) remove motor mount. Every manifold bolt was one of those 1/4-1/10th turn, 15 mins a piece ordeals. I have a new found respect for mechanics who deal with this stuff on a regular basis. Having JR there helping doing 1/2 the work made it so nice, and fun.



    So, its basically a clean slate. 5 mins of discussing things with JR, we called Mike Radowski, and he will be sending a new motor mount, and a new twin scroll tubular bottom mount manifold. I hope to maintain the existing 4" intake piping tract, but I'm sure it will have to change a bit. I am so excited about a twin scroll manifold, and a manifold that doesn't require a oil sump. This manifold didn't, and I love it for that. As far as the wastegate piping, I am considering doing a single or duals on the turbine housing like he does it on the e46M3 kit he is now building. I know that mike has said there was some creep issues, but even if we don't go with the housing location, I don't see creep being an issue if done carefully because I will be running a minimum of 15 psi on this car, and I don't rev to the moon like s54's do (really the equivalent of a 3.9 liter s52 as far as air volume).

    Several times during the evening, people would drive by and stop, sometimes passing, then reversing to see us working on the coupe in the air (not a totally normal sight in rural Lehi Utah).



    And proper planning of the shop, I can still park my truck in as it waits for Mike to get a manifold to me.



    It was what I would call a epic weekend. Friday night I went out late driving with a bunch of friends with amazing cars, I was humbled by a UGR Gallardo TT and had a ton of fun hanging out with a bunch of tru car guys. Then saturday got a ton of house stuff done, got a ton of stuff done on the coupe hanging out with a great friend (will be returning the favor soon on his projects), and am looking forward to making this awesome car bigger, better, stronger.

    My goal would be to reach 800 whp. We are lucky to have e85 readily available, and with the flex fuel tuning working perfectly, I don't have do be dedicated at all to it. I am considering a batmo wheel (roadracer as inspiration), but if the turbo isn't too hard to take off (please chime in mike on the motor in car installation of the manifold, and the ease of turbo removal) I could see doing back to back tests on the billet batmo wheel for the gt4094.
    Last edited by jonesmechanical; 03-31-2013 at 08:57 PM.

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  2. #2
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    Good luck dude. This car has been awesomeness since day 1. Can't wait to see the results of the new setup

    Sent from my Plutonian interplanetary space station
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  3. #3
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    Jones, Please run the 4094R as is and then do a 68MM batmo wheel upgrade after a base dyno. PM me for a price on the wheel.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby Colbs View Post
    Jones, Please run the 4094R as is and then do a 68MM batmo wheel upgrade after a base dyno. PM me for a price on the wheel.
    For sure. Colbs, whats your opinion on mikes new manifold.... Will turbo removal be tough with motor in car? Will manifold be able to slide in with the engine in? The aa cast manifold was a bugger to get out.

    I would think turbo removal would be much easier than the setup i just removed because the wastegate tube is about impossible to remove, and the wastegate tube was in the way for just about everything. A few custom made wrenches may do the trick, as it was we were bending 11mm wrenches to get the right angle on the manifold flange bolts. We even cut up a few wrenches to get to places. Crow feet were are friends in other spots.

    With Wastegate (s) set on the bottom of the car, and the tie in on the turbine housing, its a game changer for simplicity.


    I told JR that sometimes i felt like i was breaking out of jail, because you would just lay there, seemingly doing nothing, but turning nuts/bolts at the slowest rate ever, in a almost unoticeable fashion.

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  5. #5
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    Btw, has anyone done any testing on the effectiveness of coatings on manifolds and exhaust piping? Does it make enough of an effect to bother? I just dont want to cover all that fabrication if it only gets you a nominal/unmeasurable gain in heat control.

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  6. #6
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    sweet! Turbo M coupe, nothing better
    1996 328i (m52B28US) OBD1 euro ZF 5spd. 3.23LSD conversion / Chem. PnP Head/ DINAN stg.2 CHIP/ VAC race valves/ S52 cams/ A/C delete/ fan delete/ Washer Fluid resv delete/ ARP head studs/ Cometic 140MLS / VAC Solid Engine/trans Mounts/ CAI / 2.5"Borla race exahaust/ NGK R spark plugs, M50 Mani, S50 Oil Res, Riot Racing HFTB, SAMCO Hoses, JBR FW, X-Brace, Mtech Front Bumper, RE RSMs, stoptech SS lines, Bilstein sports, H&R Race Springs, S52 Reinforcement plates, Kosei K1 w/ bridgestone RE960as, Brembo/stoptech slotted rotors, M3 Trailing arms, M3 Calipers, M3 Axles, ACS strut brace, weight reduction.

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  7. #7
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    I don't know the answer either greg. You see stuff like this:

    http://www.circletrack.com/enginetec...p/viewall.html

    Where they found no gain of power. But I have seen how doing 3 dyno pulls right in a row on the dyno, you can pick up 300-400 rpm spool just by having a glowing hot header. The problem is the heat held in the header causes many of them to crack, and that article from circle track showed NO POWER GAIN from the wrap job they did. My lotus has no engine cover and breathes better than any car out there and it cracked. Then you have robs evo which has its headers wrapped and has for years and its fine.

    Conclusion: Nothing. I have concluded nothing. I'm of the same oppinion I have been for years which is I have no idea if it does work or doesn't, and I don't know if it causes an increase in risk for cracking or not cracking. Personally I don't know what to do. My headers weren't wrapped on the lotus and it cracked. After the repair I plan on wrapping it just to see if it even matters.

    J. R.
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  8. #8
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    and just like that motoiq posts an article on just what you were asking:

    http://www.motoiq.com/magazine_artic...-assembly.aspx
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  9. #9
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    Interesting....but still no actual data collection, a bit disappointing from motoiq, they are better than that that to trust even the low estimate of a sales brochure.

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Interesting....but still no actual data collection, a bit disappointing from motoiq, they are better than that that to trust even the low estimate of a sales brochure.
    agreed. I posted the link before reading the article. They usually have actual data collection with their articles. Ah well. :-(
    Attention TURBO LOVERS, Great book -----> How to turbocharge and Tune your Engine

    Favorite Automotive Tuning Articles on the Internet: Engine Tuning Articles
    My Car: Custom Build Lotus Super 7

  11. #11
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    I remember that RX7 shop fire. That was back when I had my fd. Quite a few nice fd's burned that day. Very sad day.
    | 1997 Estoril M3 - TURBO - |
    | GT35R | 8.5:1 forged internals | ARP stuffs | SS Oring Block w/ elring | Fully balanced & blueprinted 3.3L S52 | Nick G Tuning |
    | 46mm Precision gate| 62# injectors | Dual Walbro's |
    Goal: 600+ whp pump gas reliable 10 second car.
    -2007 335i Sport Package

  12. #12
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    Fires are scary. Always be prepared

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  13. #13
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    Absolutely love the garage!!! Also the exhaust work is to droll over. I wish I could weld and create something of that caliber

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rt turbo View Post
    I remember that RX7 shop fire. That was back when I had my fd. Quite a few nice fd's burned that day. Very sad day.

    Seth Scalley was a good friend of mine. He lost everything (the shop owner), along with a few others who didn't have their cars insured while they were under the knife. His insurance company denied coverage on everything. It was a sad day. I love the 3rd gen rx7's, one day, I could see having another one, but its so rare to see one that is done tastefully and right. Fortunately I was able to fight it out with a my insurance company. They paid out almost $30,000 for my car. Likely more than I could have sold it for. Now, I just have stated value policies through Hagerty on both the 510 and the Coupe. I have photos somewhere of the fire and before/after the damage. It interesting to see so many FD fans go to BMW. It says a lot about both cars.

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by abq View Post
    Absolutely love the garage!!! Also the exhaust work is to droll over. I wish I could weld and create something of that caliber
    Thanks, its been a lot of work to build, but completely worth it. 5 years ago, I would have said the exact same thing about the thought of building my own exhaust. If its something you want to do, invest in yourself, take a night class, collect some tools, get creative, and find a co-op shop that you can use and rent time in that is equipped if you don't have the garage space yourself.

    It was so much fun to built it. It really turned out better than I every thought it could. Now, I'm not afraid to cut it up as necessary for the new manifold as it will surely need modification. Its nice not to have to rely upon someone else when it comes to the smaller fabrication details. It really changes the perspective on how you tackle a project.
    Last edited by jonesmechanical; 04-03-2013 at 06:35 PM.

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Colby Colbs View Post
    Jones, Please run the 4094R as is and then do a 68MM batmo wheel upgrade after a base dyno. PM me for a price on the wheel.
    Care to explain prices? Feel free to pm.
    This is my signature....

  16. #16
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    [QUOTE="jonesmechanical;26204667"]

    So do you prefer the rotary over the s52?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    Seth Scalley was a good friend of mine. He lost everything (the shop owner), along with a few others who didn't have their cars insured while they were under the knife. His insurance company denied coverage on everything. It was a sad day. I love the 3rd gen rx7's, one day, I could see having another one, but its so rare to see one that is done tastefully and right. Fortunately I was able to fight it out with a my insurance company. They paid out almost $30,000 for my car. Likely more than I could have sold it for. Now, I just have stated value policies through Hagerty on both the 510 and the Coupe. I have photos somewhere of the fire and before/after the damage. It interesting to see so many FD fans go to BMW. It says a lot about both cars.
    .
    I didnt know the insurance didnt pay. I'd have to say my fd was probably my overall favorite car I've owned. It fit me like a glove and was so nimble. I will likely buy another one someday... I'm eyeing an N/a high compression lightened-rotor high reving 4 rotor. Thats my ultimate build.
    | 1997 Estoril M3 - TURBO - |
    | GT35R | 8.5:1 forged internals | ARP stuffs | SS Oring Block w/ elring | Fully balanced & blueprinted 3.3L S52 | Nick G Tuning |
    | 46mm Precision gate| 62# injectors | Dual Walbro's |
    Goal: 600+ whp pump gas reliable 10 second car.
    -2007 335i Sport Package

  18. #18
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    The S52 motor has so much more torque, and the inline 6 is so smooth. Rotary motors are just so finicky, stinky, and sound "unique". Not that I don't love it, but I certainly wouldn't want to live with it everyday. E85 fuel has really opened up the power ceilings of rotaries. It couldn't have been a better fuel for it. To not have a 13B in a FD would be a mess.

    Haven't heard yet back form Mike R. on the manifold (how long, if its in stock etc). Cant wait to see those pieces and start with the challenge of fitting the new manifold/wastegate design in the coupe. I don't know if anyone has attempted this manifold in a coupe, it seems like everything else that fits a e36 works on coupes also. We will see......

    1999 M coupe, Black/Kyalami Orange, Sunroof Delete; GT4088R turbo, 610 WHP @ 22PSI Pump Gas; 2.79 Gearing; TCK D/A's; Forgelines 19x9 et38 w/265 30's; 19x11.5 et19 w/305 30's. Brembo GT Brakes; Race Logic Traction Control.

    1971 Datsun 510: High Compression VG34e, CAI,Fuji Blue, GC C/O's; system, Penultimate Rear Crossmember R160 lsd 3.70, cv axels; CCW LM16's 16 x 7.5/8.5 w/215 40 and 245 35 T1R's.

  19. #19
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    Jones, I know ken is running the new manifold in his coupe bolted to a 6466. I believe it was one of the first manifold's max psi installed in a customers car.


    -sold...replaced by turbo e36

  20. #20
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    Correction... WAS running the manifold on his coupe. Althought technically it's still on the car, but it's not running.... oh silly technicalities.
    It "MAY" be for sale for a great price along with the downpipe if it's in one solid piece as well.
    Last edited by Z3speed4me; 04-04-2013 at 01:52 PM.

    ~Ken~ {'99 M coupe : 1 of 118} THE "original" TT Stage 3 - HTA3586R; 701 whp 672 wtq @ 26.5 psi ; NeverSell - CoupeCartel

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Z3speed4me View Post
    Correction... WAS running the manifold on his coupe. Althought technically it's still on the car, but it's not running.... oh silly technicalities.
    It "MAY" be for sale for a great price along with the downpipe if it's in one solid piece as well.
    Why are you parting out your car?

    Sent from my GTX3582R
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  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post

    Why are you parting out your car?

    Sent from my GTX3582R
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonesmechanical View Post
    The S52 motor has so much more torque, and the inline 6 is so smooth. Rotary motors are just so finicky, stinky, and sound "unique". Not that I don't love it, but I certainly wouldn't want to live with it everyday. E85 fuel has really opened up the power ceilings of rotaries. It couldn't have been a better fuel for it. To not have a 13B in a FD would be a mess.

    Haven't heard yet back form Mike R. on the manifold (how long, if its in stock etc). Cant wait to see those pieces and start with the challenge of fitting the new manifold/wastegate design in the coupe. I don't know if anyone has attempted this manifold in a coupe, it seems like everything else that fits a e36 works on coupes also. We will see......
    I know mike had to make some alterations to the design with regard to WG placement and routing to accommodate the tighter quarters and slightly different firewall shape of the mcoupe.

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by chikinhed View Post

    Why are you parting out your car?

    Sent from my GTX3582R
    Look in z3 forum....

    It's when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...come-to-an-end
    Last edited by rukman; 04-04-2013 at 03:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rukman View Post

    Look in z3 forum....

    It's when an unstoppable force meets an immovable object.

    http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...come-to-an-end
    Pure sadness

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