93FIM5's 1993 E34 M5 Build | Part 2

[93FIM5]

Quite a bit has changed over the last few years with multiple iterations that aren't worth covering so I figured it was time to start a new thread, the bulk of previous work can be found HERE .

The M5 still lives and has been continuously tweaked as part of our ongoing development at www.Angry-Ass.com. At the moment I'm wrapping development of our rear 340X28 4 Piston Rear Brake System | Competition. This setup uses a AP Racing 4 Piston CP9450 Radi-Cal caliper, 340X28mm 60 vane brake disc mated to the E34 with custom CNC'd hats and brackets and plumbed in with custom Spiegler brake lines to our design. We've taken things a step further and had our own custom studs made by MSI in North Carolina and coated in the same finish as BMW currently uses for long term durability as well as offering optional custom trimmed heat shields to save you guys the hassle. Pic of the production parts.


340X28 Comp 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

The rear setup is made only to pair with our 355X32 6 Piston Front Brake System | Competition that was based on my early brake development but redesigned to allow fitment behind M-Systems with a small spacer. This system uses a AP Racing 6 Piston CP9660 Radi-Cal Caliper, 355X32 72 vane brake disc mated to the E34 with custom CNC'd hats and brackets and again plumbed in with custom Spiegler brake lines to our design. Currently we are using an off the shelf BMW stud to mount the AP calipers from the F10 M5 but we will be transitioning to a custom MSI made stud in the future. Few pics of early production components.


355 Pre Pro 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

The only difference between the above and production is the laser etching is modified with a rotor size and the Ass only. A cutaway M-system and 10mm spacer.


355 Pre Pro Cut 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr


355 Pre Pro Cut 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

While on brakes its worth mentioning that we have another couple smaller brake setups coming out as well that I will be posting about later in the spring that will allow smaller diameter rim fitment and look a bit more period correct and fit E24,28,31,32,34. Also have quite a few tech articles coming out that will address some of the basics around brakes. Few pics of development.


AP CP3862 24-34 2E by 93FIM5, on Flickr


AP CP3862 24-34 2E CP8350 Mount 1a by 93FIM5, on Flickr


AP CP8350 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Back to the build, I'm also concurrently working on a power steering mounting bracket to fit a electro hydraulic power steering pump used on the 911 GT3RSR, bit of the 3D printed mockups showing development. This is located in the trunk behind the stock trim panels I was lucky enough to trade @Bleedsblue for that has a nice fold down cover, its like the BMW gods panned this.


Pump Dev 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Bit more CAD showing the final design evolution.


TRW Electric PS Mount 3b by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Will be bent from steel then plated to match the stock amp bracket, also may add a bit more sound deadening to the interior of the fold down panel when I re-glue the reinforcement in. The pump will run stainless hard lines to the steering box with soft flex lines at the transitions.

While I wait on a few parts to show up I'm working on the new ancillary drive pulleys and mount for the AC compressor and alternator from the B58, this will also integrate my Laminova water to oil cooler and fully convert the S38 to a serpentine setup. There will most likely be a further evolutions beyond this setup once the motor gets a rebuild and ATI damper, but I've got to design it first haha.


Development Anci 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Alternator is 180amps and all of the pulleys will be machined from aluminum and hard anodized when finished, using newer style crank hardware and a custom pulley washer with the same OEM BMW coating. Will have to pull out my notes but the AC compressor saves quite a bit of mass over the stock unit and should be more efficient to boot. As part of this development we are also working on a new remote filter assembly with optional thermostat which should make things easier for those who need space taken up by the stock M30 and S38 filter housings. Few pics of the development remote setup that inspired this plan (will be replaced).


Development Remote 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr


Development Remote 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

The new remote setup will allow multiple mounting locations and we will be offering line solutions along with it, the thermostat is an option to add to it when going air to oil and is an OEM BMW part. All in all it should be a nice robust setup that is easily serviced and with plenty of options for filter selection.

[BleedsBlue]

first

You really did it! The forum legend is back. Probably best to start a new thread, I agree.

[dannyzabolotny]

Can the B58 AC compressor be run on R134 though? Most of the B58 cars I’ve worked on were running R1234yf…

Electro-hydraulic steering pump relocation to balance weight and remove a belt-driven accessory, interesting approach but I dig it! What are you doing for the steering box?

[93FIM5]

first

You really did it! The forum legend is back. Probably best to start a new thread, I agree.

Hahaha, yea lots changing.

Can the B58 AC compressor be run on R134 though? Most of the B58 cars I’ve worked on were running R1234yf…

Electro-hydraulic steering pump relocation to balance weight and remove a belt-driven accessory, interesting approach but I dig it! What are you doing for the steering box?

Will run modern refrigerant if required and this will all require a bit more effort than just slapping the compressor on, also running the drier assembly which is water cooled as its part of the low temp radiator circuit that also serves the intercooler. Effectively two cooling circuits a low temp for the AC and charge cooler (as done on the newer cars) and a high temp with engine cooling and the oil cooling load.

Edit: Car was originally R12 so lots of updating haha, compressor will take either 134 or 1234.

Yea curious to see the overall assist as its at a slightly lower pressure, if for some reason its sub par the next option is a Bosch Motorsport VPS 15 variable displacement pump. Box is the same and servotronic.

[circuit.heart]

Awesome but concerned. Power steering pressure drop/response suffers as the lines get super long, not to mention if you have ups and downs in your lines, bleeding could be a huge pain. I also want to do electric P/S but the farthest I see to move things back is under the rear seat. Easiest is probably right in the glove box as far as bleed paths go.

[93FIM5]

Awesome but concerned. Power steering pressure drop/response suffers as the lines get super long, not to mention if you have ups and downs in your lines, bleeding could be a huge pain. I also want to do electric P/S but the farthest I see to move things back is under the rear seat. Easiest is probably right in the glove box as far as bleed paths go.

Will definitely be pressure drops due to the run but calcs only get so far and then it’s time to test. As mentioned before if it fails to perform there are other promising options I’ll pursue.

Not sure how you’re determining an ideal location based on pumps with different flow rates? Anyways look forward to your solution.

[circuit.heart]

Will definitely be pressure drops due to the run but calcs only get so far and then it’s time to test. As mentioned before if it fails to perform there are other promising options I’ll pursue.

Not sure how you’re determining an ideal location based on pumps with different flow rates? Anyways look forward to your solution.

"Ideal" to me just means it doesn't cause problems down the road, and bleeding a long kinked P/S line is super not on my fun list. Rear seat location would need at least one bleed valve per line; spare tire well could be two, I think; trunk location, maybe one per line, I'm sure you've thought about this more. That's why I thought the easy way out is glove box, where the lines can route monotonically down from reservoir to pump to steering box. Self-bleeding means one less thing to fail, for my use case/paranoia.

[93FIM5]

"Ideal" to me just means it doesn't cause problems down the road, and bleeding a long kinked P/S line is super not on my fun list. Rear seat location would need at least one bleed valve per line; spare tire well could be two, I think; trunk location, maybe one per line, I'm sure you've thought about this more. That's why I thought the easy way out is glove box, where the lines can route monotonically down from reservoir to pump to steering box. Self-bleeding means one less thing to fail, for my use case/paranoia.

Hahaha not causing problems is definitely ideal!! Which pump are you looking at?

[Johal E32]

Woohoo! Glad to see you make a new thread, Greg! I am looking forward to new products and updates on your beast! This motivates me to get cracking on my E34 M5 as well

BTW, thanks again for loaning me the subframe bushing tool - it worked a treat on my stubborn, original, 205K mile bushings on the supercharged 540.

[circuit.heart]

Hahaha not causing problems is definitely ideal!! Which pump are you looking at?

The pump I've seen people use successfully in grassroots racing is the Volvo S40 unit; makes somewhere 1300-1400psi in failsafe mode (you can talk to it via CAN to unlock full, which is I think 1700) and flows enough in practice to drive a Mercedes drift car's steering box with no hiccups. I think it's a good candidate.

The integrated reservoir makes it tall to package so in my head, I'd make the "airbag cover" => the "P/S maintenance cover" lol.

[93FIM5]

Woohoo! Glad to see you make a new thread, Greg! I am looking forward to new products and updates on your beast! This motivates me to get cracking on my E34 M5 as well

BTW, thanks again for loaning me the subframe bushing tool - it worked a treat on my stubborn, original, 205K mile bushings on the supercharged 540.

Thanks, I missed it here! Think everyone will appreciate what we've been working on. Look forward to seeing more updates from you and no problem at all on the tool!

The pump I've seen people use successfully in grassroots racing is the Volvo S40 unit; makes somewhere 1300-1400psi in failsafe mode (you can talk to it via CAN to unlock full, which is I think 1700) and flows enough in practice to drive a Mercedes drift car's steering box with no hiccups. I think it's a good candidate.

The integrated reservoir makes it tall to package so in my head, I'd make the "airbag cover" => the "P/S maintenance cover" lol.

Yea my unit is around 10.5" with the reservoir and with the expansion tank I'm adding a bit taller. Excited to get it wrapped and see if its what I'm after.

Not a good place for your pump in the engine bay? Being a M5X based motor I'd thing you have a bit of room?

[circuit.heart]

Yea my unit is around 10.5" with the reservoir and with the expansion tank I'm adding a bit taller. Excited to get it wrapped and see if its what I'm after.

Not a good place for your pump in the engine bay? Being a M5X based motor I'd thing you have a bit of room?

For ease of engine removal I'd like as much space around the engine bay as possible. Ideally, I'd have electric A/C in the trunk, and P/S pump somewhere behind the firewall, maybe the trunk as well. Without engine accessories in the way, S52 out/fix/in could happen pretty much between track sessions. The weight distribution benefit is a bonus.

10.5" doesn't seem too bad, I think you can cut a hole in the trunk to lower things a little bit if I remember that area of the car correctly.

[93FIM5]

For ease of engine removal I'd like as much space around the engine bay as possible. Ideally, I'd have electric A/C in the trunk, and P/S pump somewhere behind the firewall, maybe the trunk as well. Without engine accessories in the way, S52 out/fix/in could happen pretty much between track sessions. The weight distribution benefit is a bonus.

10.5" doesn't seem too bad, I think you can cut a hole in the trunk to lower things a little bit if I remember that area of the car correctly.

Plenty of room currently with my mount, no need to cut holes for the pump thankfully.

Better add some dry breaks to speed things up even more haha! I’ve been happy with Staubli. Have them on my brakes for development and on fuel lines currently. Adel Wiggins (of course not dry breaks) for my radiator and same for the intercooler plumbing that’s in the works.

Just finished wrapping up development of our small AP setup that fits the E24 and E28. 299X32 disc with a 4 piston caliper at a very affordable price. Will of course fit the E31, 32 and 34 and we may offer for those as well. Here it is mocked up with 3D printed parts, machining started today. About 16mm smaller in overall diameter compared to the E34 M5 rotor but thicker at 32mm vs 28mm and with 60 internal vanes.


299X32 Comp Development 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Goal with this setup was something that looked period correct as well as fit behind smaller rims for the earlier cars.

Currently I'm working on a jack puck for the E34 that uses the factory mounting positions and easily interfaces with jacks and lifts to help prevent damaging side skirts.

[BleedsBlue]

The smol AP is a thing of beauty

[atl530i]

The brakes look awesome. This may be something I want to buy for my car for the hell of it lol.

[93FIM5]

The brakes look awesome. This may be something I want to buy for my car for the hell of it lol.

Thanks, the small AP's should be a potent little setup. Hopefully see you at the Vintage this year and you can hold them in person!

I've designed my intercooled plenum in about 40 different configurations over the years and always had the same issue of clearance with ancillaries due to being v-belt, that's been one of the main reasons to convert over to serpentine on the S38. Not to mention more efficient/lighter ancillaries and the need for more electrical power (Power steering and E60 M5 fan). I've been working on the mounting points needed and I think I've landed on a good solution to integrate the alternator and AC compressor on a common mount along with a integral water to oil cooler core. Also thinking I will still remote mount my oil filter as I like being able to access it from below and at the front of the car. Anyways fitment pieces should be going in the 3D printer this week, hoping to get the design sorted and under construction next month.

On another note, I got around to finalizing tooling and coding for our flipped M30B35 intake manifold based on the Alpina B10 Biturbo (Thanks Canedvm). These will be machined to accept a M50 throttle with up to a 70mm ID, we will also include a blanking plate for the original throttle position that has 6X 1/8 NPT ports and 1X 3/8 NPT port and a beauty cover to hide your wiring and vacuum/other lines. If demand is strong enough we could also do custom blanking plates for different fittings and such. Anyways a couple pics


M30 Flipped 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr


M30 Flipped 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

The studs will be shorter and still deciding if the beauty cover will be nylon or carbon fiber, maybe both depending on demand.

Anyways these will be offered hopefully before Vintage and on a core basis.

[93FIM5]

Wrapped up the machining of the prototype flipped M30 manifold and working on accessories now. Our inlet is in the same spot as the Alpina B10 Biturbo and I'm thinking we can add a nice spacer plate that allows different M5X throttles (gasket types) as well as allowing water methanol or potentially nitrous ports to be added. While not as elegant as individual ports it might be a nice stop gap for those who want a bit more without the hassle of plumbing in individual ports (thinking we can setup for that as well ).


M30 Flipped 3 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Just finished up the hats for the small AP setup and they will be heading to anodizing this week. Lots of fun stuff in the works and hope to see some of you at The Vintage.

-Greg

[dschneider]

Looking lovely!

I assume that modified M30 manifolds will be machined on a core exchange basis? In terms of variants, that appears to be a B35 manifold: I know we're E34-heads here, but this seems like a potentially quite popular modification for other M30 series engines.

For anyone running a turbo setup, this configuration is an absolute no-brainer. Simplifies and shortens the plumbing for a straight-through intercooler. But even for N/A applications, getting the throttle body and especially the IAT sensor off the top of the engine will help with heat soak.

[93FIM5]

Been swamped thanks to all of you with Angry Ass but have managed to move a few more projects along and work on the M5. Managed to start wrapping up the serpentine drive conversion for the turbo setup.


Serpentine 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

New main crank pulley with crank pulley washer plated in BMW's preferred coating paired with F80 hardware and a new pulley for the water pump.


Serpentine 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

All torqued and alignment verified. Really happy with how these turned out, getting very close with what I'm calling the ancillary module that mounts the 180amp alternator (B58 sourced), AC compressor (B58 sourced), water to oil cooler (Laminova), and spin on oil filter (M1/Porsche). That will be the last piece and I should be back on the road.


Pump Module Bracket 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Had to 3D print out of glass filled nylon a new mount pad for the OEM BMW input connector (trigger wires) on my pump module bracket since the OEM unit is for much thinner material, small black part on the upper right. Bracket is zinc yellow plated to match the other OEM bits and has rivet nuts to mount the isolation breaker and OEM BMW zip ties to route the pump harness. Also tossed on some custom cut rubber to help isolate things a bit.


Pump Module Wiring 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Shortened the signal wiring with a new OEM connector/contacts and lengthened the ground cable and rewrapped in our Certoplast harness tape we offer at Angry Ass.


Breaker Hardware by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Tossed on the isolation breaker with OEM BMW SEMS hardware with thread lock.


Pump Module 2 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Module looks pretty good and I'm happy with how everything is routed. Isolation mounts use Spiralock M6 stainless flange nuts to ensure vibration wont cause any issues, yea I Loctited (243) them as well . . . really not necessary but I can't help myself.


Pump Module 1 by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Tossed the fittings on as well to see how the plumbing is going to sit once mounted, pretty happy with everything. Feed and return will both be hardlines CNC bent and then transitioning to soft lines at the pump and the steering box. Thinking I may add in a overflow reservoir on the cap just to avoid any messes.


Dust and Line by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Besides the serpentine and power steering work I've also wrapped up the Angry Ass rear competition brake setup using AP Racing 4 Piston Radi-Cal calipers and 340X28 rotors. To make it all work we've developed a modified dust shield that bolts up and eliminates the need to remove the rear bearing and stub axle as well as properly protects the custom brake lines made by Spiegler for us. These and the fronts should be fully released by end of the year, because you need 20 brake pistons. Note the projects on the floor haha . . .


Rear AP Comp by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Looks great with the MSI studs and all bolted up, still retains the parking brake function as well. Plus look at that little Ass . . . everyone loves a little Ass.


Vapor Goodness by 93FIM5, on Flickr

Also toying with offering part cleaning and vapor honing as a service to the community, if its something you'd like we'd love to hear from you at https://angry-ass.com/talktoanass . Thanks all!

- Burro Grande

[E34nication]

Killer man, keep it going!

[theBMWbeast]

would the s38 serpentine stuff work with m30? Excuse my ignorance, I know a lot is shared though

[93FIM5]

Killer man, keep it going!

would the s38 serpentine stuff work with m30? Excuse my ignorance, I know a lot is shared though

Good question and this is going to be me thinking aloud, yes this will work on the M30 but I need to do some thinking regarding the power steering for those who want something besides the electro-hydraulic system I'm using. I'm not sure there is enough belt (6 ribs) to drive a engine powered power steering pump as well as the AC, alternator and water pump, I would have to run the numbers again. We are looking at a more modern engine driven power steering pump along with another company that has the potential to reduce fluid heating and power use as a standalone upgrade for people, that might be the perfect fit with this due to its better drive requirements. I'll make sure to leave some room and attachment points on the ancillary module so we can test.

Just to make sure this doesn't come across as just a pulley swap. You are replacing your water pump and crank pulley as well as a new AC compressor (with lines), alternator with tensioner, some sort of power steering setup, new oil filter and cooler and the mounting bracket (one biiiiiig chunk of milled aluminum that has integral ports and passages for oil). So not exactly a cheap conversion but that wasn't the intent here. My goal is to have readily available newer/cheaper/more efficient components, increased capacity, optimized packaging for turbocharging (you'll see more about this with the cooling and intake) and OEM or better levels of reliability. Basically setting the S38 up to be effectively maintained/built for the future with a turbo.

Enough rambling, time for more coffee.

[5mall5nail5]

Awesome, awesome.

I am actually re-visiting my ASA supercharger and came across a random 3D printing video of yours. I managed to find a bracket for the supercharger from Budapest and received it along with some ceramic GMN ultra high quality bearings, etc. Was wondering if you might be able to 3D scan the bracket for some future ideas of mine (or yours).

[93FIM5]

Awesome, awesome.

I am actually re-visiting my ASA supercharger and came across a random 3D printing video of yours. I managed to find a bracket for the supercharger from Budapest and received it along with some ceramic GMN ultra high quality bearings, etc. Was wondering if you might be able to 3D scan the bracket for some future ideas of mine (or yours).

Actually don’t have a 3D scanner anymore, have been toying with getting another but I get tired of dealing with point clouds haha. Happy to model it manually of course.

[5mall5nail5]

Actually don’t have a 3D scanner anymore, have been toying with getting another but I get tired of dealing with point clouds haha. Happy to model it manually of course.

Dude that's the worst part. It's great it can find points in space but going from a random cloud of meshy shit to actual geometry is brutal. I ended up power coating it today and will just slap it on the car. Can pull it off if I ever need it measured/reproduced I suppose.