I tried disconnection the bottom hose from the EWG again and this time it looked like I wasn't getting as big of a boost spike and much less boost taper. The spring I swapped in the IWG has helped. With the boost controller off and the bottom hose off of the EWG I am seeing about 17-18 psi. On the low boost setting I am seeing about 23 psi with it leveling out at about 22 psi.On the high boost setting which I set to be a couple of psi more I had about the same boost. I tried to datalog but I used an SD card that wasn't formated properly. I'll try again tomorrow.
Last edited by chikinhed; 07-10-2017 at 09:33 AM.
'97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.
More boost control troubleshooting. With the Tial MVR with 14 psi spring installed and boost controller off I'm seeing 15 psi. With AMS-500 boost controller set to 9 or 13, which should give 23-27 psi, I'm seeing 20 psi.
The Turbosmart EWG wastegate could not control the boost on the Steed as Butters and Phil have already said. The Tial is working fine.
The Turbosmart IWG has no seal or o-ring at the actuator shaft so it leaks pressure from the EBC that should be holding the wastegates closed. If there is a leak, the AMS can't keep the gates closed to the selected boost and also becomes unstable.
Basically Turbosmart wastegates are junk, at least on high backpressure setups like the Steed/EFR combo. The good reviews I've read on them must be sponsored by Turbosmart.
Next on the troubleshooting list will be to disconnect the line from the EBC to the IWG and see if I can get more boost and control it to the selected psi. If so, then I will install 25 psi springs in the IWG and see how the transient response is. Hopefully I can get this sorted. As it is now I have spent big money and a huge amount of time to have my car about the same as it was with the open Steed and GTX3582R.
'97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.
With just the EWG Tial, you should have no problem hitting 25psi. I have had no issues, but staying under that can be challenging.
1996 332IS
Built 3.2
CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
Technique Tuning 80# tune.
1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM
Put the bottom port of the IWG to a pressure source and use just the tial for boost control.
328i Sedan Twin s366's, 6.0LS, TH400, MS3 Ultimate
9.20 at 150 on 22psi
She's built like a steakhouse but handles like a bistro
'97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.
I run a single Turbosmart Hypergate with a 4port and have no issue controlling 12psi up to 32psi with a 7675 Gen2 0.96A/R - 380kPa high boost backpressure. 6870 Gen2 0.81 A/R was even higher backpressure at 550kPa. It will probably control lower too with a lighter spring. Have you considered placing the wastegate on the turbine housing rather than the steed? What's your backpressure on low boost? Edit: NVM I see it's an EFR...good luck controlling that.
Last edited by Commanderwiggin; 07-18-2017 at 03:23 PM.
1000+RWHP, Lab22 Built Turbo S54 - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
1996 332IS
Built 3.2
CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
Technique Tuning 80# tune.
1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM
The Steed twin scroll EWG port/flange requires the exhaust to do a 90° turn out of the runners and there is a 1/4" thick divider in the middle of the WG port taking up area. This is one of the reasons why people have had trouble controlling boost. When you install a Turbosmart Hypergate EWG on the Steed that makes it even worse because the Hypergate does not open near as much as the Tial MVR can. There is probably a turbo/exhaust housing combo that would work fine with the Steed/Hypergate but it is not an EFR 9180 at low boost. I'm not knocking the design, I'm very persistent to find a solution for this set up that works. I need to have a system that can drop to below 15 psi on WG spring pressure if the WI failsafe trips. A range of 14 psi to 25 psi is hopefully obtainable.
'97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.
Definitely a bit of a predicament. In for the solution.
1000+RWHP, Lab22 Built Turbo S54 - BMW Half Mile Record Holder
I'd like to see soneone try a JGS 50mm EWG. Supposedly fits the standard 44mm flange. Not compact so you woukd have to clearance the SAP tray, but not compact probably means more valve lift.
Sorry to hear you are having so many issues! Seems the EFR turbones may be too good Are you running the 9810 at the same pressure you were with the GT35? Seems the 9810 should have a lot more airflow.
An option potentially is putting two external gates on the manifold (one for each bank). Unfortunately space is really tight or you could just go with one 60mm gate.
The problem of not being able to make enough boost is weird though. Usually its the other way around!
Everyone thought the manifold was perfect and needed nothing -- it had been tested with GTX3582R and EFR8374 and EFR9180. But it may be that it needs dual WG or one larger WG. And then there was the suggestion that the Turbosmart WG were great and the manifold was designed for the compact Turbosmart 45. I would not be surprised if there are changes in a future run of the manifold to improve the WG flow.
If I could do it all over again, knowing what I know now, I would have kept my Boostlogic and put an EFR8374 or EFR9180 on it. Most likely would have been fine with just an external Tial 44.
This totally sucks to spend this much time on this. Just to clarify you ordered a 14 PSI IWG and it doesnt seem be set at 14 PSI, hmm I might have the same issue? I have been racing my steed/8374 EFR on wastegate springs and according to the logs it spikes up to 10-11 PSI and then tapers down to 7 PSI (never tried in 5th gear though). I initially thought the EWG I purchase new-in-the-box from a forum member had the spring switched to a 7 PSI spring which was why I was only getting 7 psi. So yesterday I opened up the EWG and it does indeed have the 14 psi spring combo installed, meaning my IWG has the wrong or faulty springs in it. With an open wastegate dump I assumed the car would be much louder at WOT, but I dont think the EWG is opening up at all. I wonder if my 3" exhaust is keeping things in check somewhat. I want to try to turn the boost up a bit so I am going to try a manual boost controller Teed to both wastegates and see what happens. I really really really dont have any desire to mess with this...I may have just built the most expensive E36 7 psi turbo build
Last edited by bimmerbumm193; 07-19-2017 at 01:24 PM.
96 328i ITR Racecar
95 M3 blk/blk - hillclimb project - http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum....php?t=1798796 - Retired to street duty after two awesome seasons!
2002 325XiT - daily
I have been able to regulate boost from 10 to 23psi so far with no issues
Old set up: 520RWHP & 500RWTQ @ 20PSI 1/4 mile as of 7/26/15 12.5 @ 125MPH - 19PSI
New set up: Steedspeed Twinscroll, Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 CR, K1 Rods, Blueprinted and Balanced, ARP Main Studs, o-ring block, GTR 12mm head studs, GT35R with 86mm HTA billet compressor wheel (GT3586RHTA) TwinScrol 1.06 exhaust housing, Nick G custom tuning, 6 Speed Transmission, UUC Twin Disc Clutch, UUC EVO III, UUC DSSR 109mm, EVO 6 Speed Driveshaft, HFS-6 W/M injection, Zeitronix data logger, 3" SS full exhaust, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Race coilovers.
I was running the GTX3582R at 24-25 psi, I've been trying to do the same with the EFR 9180 but the average boost I've seen has been a spike to 23 psi settling at 20 psi and tapering off to 17 psi. If I disconnect the lines to the WG's it will make all the boosts, very quickly, so it's not a problem with the turbo, piping or exhaust.
The TS IWG leaks at the actuating shaft, combine that with the back pressure in the manifold and the waste gate is getting blown open before target boost is made.
'97 M3, Estoril blue, 2 dr, euro 6-spd, EFR 9180 divided T4 .92 IWG, RK tuning, CP 8.5:1 pistons, Eagle rods, Schrick cams, L19 11 mm ARP studs, O-ringed block, Supertech stainless/inconel valves, Supertech springs & Ti retainers, ported head, S54 oil pump/pan, 80 lb. injectors, OBD1 intake manifold, Steedspeed twin scroll T4, 3.5" SS exhaust, eBoost2 EBC, HFS-4 W/M injection, AEM Failsafe, Zeitronix data logger, Racelogic TC, OpenOBC w. ethanol %, Ireland Eng. engine mounts, UUC black tranny mounts w. enforcers, UUC twin disc feramic, ARC-8's, MCS 2-ways, Z3 rack, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Eibach sway bars, Ground Control LCAB bushings, Bimmerworld RTAB's, Powerflex subframe bushings, 210 4-clutch LSD, Stoptech BBK, titainium shims, steel braided lines, brake cooling ducts.
Gotcha. You could up the WG springs to solve the issue, but then would not be able to run low enough pressure in rain, ect.
- - - Updated - - -
Given the space available I dont think there is much room for improvement in WG flow. Its the same issue of the wastegate being put on at a 90deg to the flow path.
Old set up: 520RWHP & 500RWTQ @ 20PSI 1/4 mile as of 7/26/15 12.5 @ 125MPH - 19PSI
New set up: Steedspeed Twinscroll, Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 CR, K1 Rods, Blueprinted and Balanced, ARP Main Studs, o-ring block, GTR 12mm head studs, GT35R with 86mm HTA billet compressor wheel (GT3586RHTA) TwinScrol 1.06 exhaust housing, Nick G custom tuning, 6 Speed Transmission, UUC Twin Disc Clutch, UUC EVO III, UUC DSSR 109mm, EVO 6 Speed Driveshaft, HFS-6 W/M injection, Zeitronix data logger, 3" SS full exhaust, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Race coilovers.
Don't know, but this steed is spooling mine rather well. Light years ahead of a 666 manifold setup. I'm real happy with it. After changing to a Tial gate, and putting in some safety pop off valves, I couldn't be happier. Car has never been this fast. 23-25psi is ripping.
1996 332IS
Built 3.2
CES/Steed TS Precision 6466, spraying a "$π!℅" load of meth.
Technique Tuning 80# tune.
1/4 mile 10.84 @ 136.72
Your 1 and only stop for all your BMW performance needs
WWW.CESMOTORSPORT.COM
My car feels the fastest it has ever been, I'm going to the 1/4 mile end of the month to see what it does but still don't think the effort and fund spent justifies this manifold.
Old set up: 520RWHP & 500RWTQ @ 20PSI 1/4 mile as of 7/26/15 12.5 @ 125MPH - 19PSI
New set up: Steedspeed Twinscroll, Wiseco Pistons 8.8:1 CR, K1 Rods, Blueprinted and Balanced, ARP Main Studs, o-ring block, GTR 12mm head studs, GT35R with 86mm HTA billet compressor wheel (GT3586RHTA) TwinScrol 1.06 exhaust housing, Nick G custom tuning, 6 Speed Transmission, UUC Twin Disc Clutch, UUC EVO III, UUC DSSR 109mm, EVO 6 Speed Driveshaft, HFS-6 W/M injection, Zeitronix data logger, 3" SS full exhaust, Rallyroad strut bar, X brace, Race coilovers.
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