Increasing interest in 8 series?

[Sniff38]

Well that was slightly awkward...

Time to converge back onto the topic of the thread. So how about those E31 values?

Yes, this did seem to spin up rather quickly. Thanks for returning peace to this thread and caging our focus.

If the 30K CSi owner wants to ask $230K for his car, that's well within his right. The free market will eventually reveal the logic of his decision. Or one could conclude he's not really serious about selling his car.

Sean

[Sniff38]

C'mon Richard, I thought we were done with this. Let's be friends OK? Seriously.

Sean

[6speeder]

230k is an outrageous price period, THREE of these cars wouldnt be worth that. Owners do not determine the value of a car, completed recent sales do. I have been kinda, sorta looking for a black csi for about 36 months, and seriously looking for the past 18 and I can tell you that during my research I have not come across a single US spec csi which has sold for OVER 60 k within the past 3 years. The only one i know of that has even touched that value was Taylors and was asking 62.5 ish i think, and it took him 3 long years to sell it, and when it did sell it went to an overseas buyer. If the potential buyer of this car will be financing it his loan will never close (no comps to justify value).

All this is speculative however so we can find out with certainty exactly what the current owner of this 65k car really thinks its worth by getting his insurance declarations page... id bet my 6 speed right now that he himself doesnt even have it insured for over 60k.

- - - Updated - - -

C'mon Richard, I thought we were done with this. Let's be friends OK? Seriously.

Sean

O K truce! Now that were friends you can call me Dick.

[Alec Cartio]

My CSi is insured for $80.000 and it was approved as such by the insurance company.
Also, Taylor's car sold well above your mentioned price of 62K and it was not bank financed. It was purchased cash.

- - - Updated - - -

Does anyone have the window sticker price of a 93-96 Euro CSi? I'm curious as to how much they were back then (Obviously in Deutch Marks). US-Spec CSi's were 104-108K USD
thanks

[dragon850]

CSI mileage dictates the value. At 30k it is a collectors piece, don't forget 20k mile automatic went for over 30k not too long ago on BAT.
Realistically it will go for around 100k if the seller wants to sell his car.

[6speeder]

My CSi is insured for $80.000 and it was approved as such by the insurance company.

That wasnt my point. Insurance companies will allow you to insure it for whatever value you want, they will gladly take your overpaid premiums. What they will pay out after a claim is completely different. Example: you can insure it for 500k and they will fund a policy with that future loss of 500k (and the premiums that go with it) but when you file a claim that your e31 was totaled and deserve a 500k check they will never pay it out. They will "pull comps" of completed recent sales and your 500k overpaid policy will close out with a 60k check, its only the CEILING that the policy will pay too (500k), not the current market value at the time of the loss.

Also, Taylor's car sold well above your mentioned price of 62K and it was not bank financed. It was purchased cash.

Makes no sense, he COULDNT get 62.5k for 3 years what makes you think it sold for MORE than his ask lol. There were 2 black csi on the east coast that I personally drove within the last year and they were literally STOCK and they coudlnt fetch 60k, to say taylors was F A R from stock would be a gross understatement. Also, my point above was that if it was financed, the bank will appraise the car to make sure that the insurance covers the loss in the event of a claim or in the event of an owner default (repo). When the appraisal comes back as "this guys NUTS" that loan will not close. The buyer will have lost his deposit if he gave any and the car will be back on the market 90 days later at an adjusted lower price. If its not lowered to the correct market value this process will just repeat itself until its sold at MARKET price, or the seller gives up and keeps it, or its sold for cash. Which is why NONE of the above applies to a cash sale as there is no bank or appraisal to answer too, and therefore the price is subjective. IE if someone is willing enough to pay Alpina 5.0/5.7 money for a north american spec csi the free market allows it, but it doesnt mean thats what its worth. It means thats what it was worth to that 1 buyer. Im saying its not "worth" anywhere near 230k. And if your unsure think about this, there were 57 alpina 5.7's produced. If I cut a 200k cashiers check right now, and I had all the owners info of all 57 alpinas, i would bet my right arm that it wouldnt take 5 calls before someone accepted that offer, and the alpina 5.7 is nowhere near in value of a us spec csi, not even the euro spec ones come close in price. Dont confuse the north american spec csi with euro spec ones, they sell at a 30% markup at least.

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CSI mileage dictates the value. At 30k it is a collectors piece, don't forget 20k mile automatic went for over 30k not too long ago on BAT.
Realistically it will go for around 100k if the seller wants to sell his car.

Yes but even 100k is a far cry from 230. His price is crazy talk but i hope he gets lots for it, truly. Just dont want to see someone taken advantage of.

[MauiM3Mania]

Enough. One person is now looking in from the outside of the forum. This place is here to discuss BMW matters, not to trade insults. Further discussion on personal attributes will be met with expulsion from the forum.

Thanks.

[alex840]

Or someone with crazy amount of cash laying around might find the "need" to buy the car cause it has very low miles. I do understand you point, but I have seen it happen on a GMC Cyclone with 19,000 miles went over 100K USD. The reason for Cyclone purchase? He had one while back but had to sell it for financial reasons now his company has gone public 100k to him is like 1 dollar to us. So it happens......

Alex

CSI mileage dictates the value. At 30k it is a collectors piece, don't forget 20k mile automatic went for over 30k not too long ago on BAT.
Realistically it will go for around 100k if the seller wants to sell his car.

[Alec Cartio]

That wasnt my point. Insurance companies will allow you to insure it for whatever value you want, they will gladly take your overpaid premiums. What they will pay out after a claim is completely different. Example: you can insure it for 500k and they will fund a policy with that future loss of 500k (and the premiums that go with it) but when you file a claim that your e31 was totaled and deserve a 500k check they will never pay it out. They will "pull comps" of completed recent sales and your 500k overpaid policy will close out with a 60k check, its only the CEILING that the policy will pay too (500k), not the current market value at the time of the loss. Makes no sense, he COULDNT get 62.5k for 3 years what makes you think it sold for MORE than his ask lol. There were 2 black csi on the east coast that I personally drove within the last year and they were literally STOCK and they coudlnt fetch 60k, to say taylors was F A R from stock would be a gross understatement. Also, my point above was that if it was financed, the bank will appraise the car to make sure that the insurance covers the loss in the event of a claim or in the event of an owner default (repo). When the appraisal comes back as "this guys NUTS" that loan will not close. The buyer will have lost his deposit if he gave any and the car will be back on the market 90 days later at an adjusted lower price. If its not lowered to the correct market value this process will just repeat itself until its sold at MARKET price, or the seller gives up and keeps it, or its sold for cash. Which is why NONE of the above applies to a cash sale as there is no bank or appraisal to answer too, and therefore the price is subjective. IE if someone is willing enough to pay Alpina 5.0/5.7 money for a north american spec csi the free market allows it, but it doesnt mean thats what its worth. It means thats what it was worth to that 1 buyer. Im saying its not "worth" anywhere near 230k. And if your unsure think about this, there were 57 alpina 5.7's produced. If I cut a 200k cashiers check right now, and I had all the owners info of all 57 alpinas, i would bet my right arm that it wouldnt take 5 calls before someone accepted that offer, and the alpina 5.7 is nowhere near in value of a us spec csi, not even the euro spec ones come close in price. Dont confuse the north american spec csi with euro spec ones, they sell at a 30% markup at least. - - - Updated - - - Yes but even 100k is a far cry from 230. His price is crazy talk but i hope he gets lots for it, truly. Just dont want to see someone taken advantage of.

Relax!!!!. You're gonna have a heart attack.
You're arguing with practically everyone on this thread.

What makes me think? I don't think, I KNOW. TAYLOR IS ONE OF MY CLOSEST FRIENDS.
I KNOW!!! I even know the guy who bought it and he's one of the happiest men alive because of that purchase. Now chill out and listen when people give you FACT and not fiction.

[dragon850]

8 series is in falling in favor with modern celebrities again! 77k likes not too shabby in such a short time!

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

[clubE31]

just look at mobile.de or autoscout24..... cheapest csi is 37.5K up to 100K (euro's).
Nice and lower milage (100-200k): 60K starting price
Below 100k milage: closer to 100K

And to be honest.... prices are lower then beginning of this year.
A few sellers dropped their price (a 57k miles csi started at 120K and now asking 100K).

[clubE31]

My CSi is insured for $80.000 and it was approved as such by the insurance company.
Also, Taylor's car sold well above your mentioned price of 62K and it was not bank financed. It was purchased cash.

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Does anyone have the window sticker price of a 93-96 Euro CSi? I'm curious as to how much they were back then (Obviously in Deutch Marks). US-Spec CSi's were 104-108K USD
thanks

not easy, taxes vary per country (a lot).... in NL it was 140K euro, only 7 officially sold (germany around 92K euro). In NL cars have a lot of tax, belgium is cheaper as well.
http://www.e31.net/preislisten.html (german prices)

[8eights]

8 series is in falling in favor with modern celebrities again! 77k likes not too shabby in such a short time!

Sent from my SM-G925T using Tapatalk

You are correct, I know of 4 of them whom recently picked up atleae one E31 and they lurk fourms of all there vehicles.

[Sniff38]

Fetty Wap, the gentleman in the above photo, was born in 1991 (thanks Wikipedia) which means he was 6-7 years old when the last e31s were being sold new in the U.S. Now that's a bit young for a kid to take interest in cars as I usually associate the desire to hang car posters on bedroom walls with teenagers. That said, a teenager growing up during the e31 production run is now somewhere in their 30's. That's about the age where many start to have some disposable income to splurge on the car of their dreams (within reason of course). Based on current prices and general availability, the e31 is an attractive candidate.

If my theory is correct, this is good for the e31 as far as values go. I think you'll see more and more young guys buy these cars as they get nostalgic and want to own the car that captivated them when they were a kid. I bet if you ask Fetty Wap, he'll be able to tell you the first time he saw an e31 and describe how it made him feel.

Sean

[Alec Cartio]

My neighbor is a well known and successful song writer. He has a brand new 7 series and a brand new 3 series, yet he has come to me several times asking me to help him find an E31 because he thinks it's the nicest BMW design ever made. He's in his early 30's.

[UNEEKONE]

My neighbor is a well known and successful song writer. He has a brand new 7 series and a brand new 3 series, yet he has come to me several times asking me to help him find an E31 because he thinks it's the nicest BMW design ever made. He's in his early 30's.

Come on now Alec, it's okay to name drop. We are all friends here. This neighbor of yours... do share.

[taylorpatterson]

The US cars got more wood too..

Hehe - US cars have more wood :-)

[Alec Cartio]

The owners sure do... lol

Taylor btw. I did a currency and price comparison conversion from 1992-1996 between the Deutche Mark and US Dollars for the price difference between Euro CSI's and US CSi and the they came out to be almost exactly the same price. 182000-183000 Deutche Marks equals US CSi= $104800, Euro CSi=$105300. My question now is why the market (or our own people) have blown up the Euro CSi as to being more expensive now because weighing in the different options from the time and their prices, both cars were worth the same amount of money. Now I don't care if the Euro CSi has AHK and all that, our cars were given valuable options to which should make both market versions have the same value TODAY. Don't you think buddy?

Hehe - US cars have more wood :-)

[taylorpatterson]

The owners sure do... lol

Taylor btw. I did a currency and price comparison conversion from 1992-1996 between the Deutche Mark and US Dollars for the price difference between Euro CSI's and US CSi and the they came out to be almost exactly the same price. 182000-183000 Deutche Marks equals US CSi= $104800, Euro CSi=$105300. My question now is why the market (or our own people) have blown up the Euro CSi as to being more expensive now because weighing in the different options from the time and their prices, both cars were worth the same amount of money. Now I don't care if the Euro CSi has AHK and all that, our cars were given valuable options to which should make both market versions have the same value TODAY. Don't you think buddy?

Alec, I don't really know the answer to that question. Perhaps because 'it was borne in Europe', the European models are perceived to be truer nature of the car, perhaps that makes them more desireable here in the US to some people. You see a lot of US spec owners doing stuff to their to make them closer to their Euro counterparts, my new white one included - it has Euro brakes, Euro mirrors, Euro headlamps, Euro LKM, Rear Fog Lights, etc... as did my black one I sold into Denmark.

I used to covet the Euro versions to the extent I looked seriously into importing one - I reasoned it would/is the more exotic model to some here in the US. That was long ago when the dollar was stronger and it could have made financial sense. Now it's the opposite, and in Germany, there being no VAT tax on 30 year old car imports, I wonder what our US market will be like when German's start to want to re-import US-spec CSis to Germany for all those wonderful US options our cars came with, minus the AHK maintenance hassle - performance being similar and such...

My black one was for sale for a couple years and had a lot of near misses along the way. People thought I was nuts for asking what I did, but in the end, I loved that car so much, and it was such a specially upgraded CSi that I didn't care to wait for the right buyer to come along. I turned down offers at $58k and even one at $65k because they came from collectors and I couldn't bear the thought of my car sitting in some storage facility and not being loved.

Same with my white one. It's in such perfectly (Euro) stock condition, that once it's perfected soon, it will take a big bag of cash to get it out of my garage, but it will need to go to the right kind of owner (after I'm done making it famous that is :-) )

As to financing and bank loans and such - I don't think too many people trading in these cars at these levels are worried about that, and many of them might be self-insured anyway. As our cars finally enter the collector's market and status, the old normal rules about mileage, and car loans goes out the window. It's a whole new world boys and girls. Better buckle up!

[kiwiCSi]

Interesting to note that the UK paid a significantly higher price for the 850CSi than Alec's figures show for the US and Continental European markets.
BMW GB's list price for the UK-spec 850CSi in May 1994 was GBP £77,500, which in 1994 money equated to USD $115,800.

The seven (7) non-UK spec RHD CSi's were among the most expensive, at well over AUD $200,000 paid for each of the three cars sold in Australia. That was an equivalent price tag of around USD $150k!
The two Hong Kong cars and similarly the two Singapore cars, were even more expensive.

[Alec Cartio]

Regardless of what taxes and VAT's each country adds to the MSRP of the cars, that still doesn't change the fact that Euro vs US models pretty much had the same MSRP and should be worth the same today. It's not as if the Euro version had a 100 extra horsepower supercharged engine that would boost its price significantly. They scaled both market versions and none tipped over.
As a comparison, because of all the added value the alpina factory gave to each of their own 97+57 cars, that justifies the higher msrp and its current market value. I cannot for the logic of it understand the CSi value differences that we are being fed these days. It's pure bs if you ask me. Both versions should sell for the same price.

Interesting to note that the UK paid a significantly higher price for the 850CSi than Alec's figures show for the US and Continental European markets. BMW GB's list price for the UK-spec 850CSi in May 1994 was GBP £77,500, which in 1994 money equated to USD $115,800. The seven (7) non-UK spec RHD CSi's were among the most expensive, at well over AUD $200,000 paid for each of the three cars sold in Australia. That was an equivalent price tag of around USD $150k! The two Hong Kong cars and similarly the two Singapore cars, were even more expensive.

[Chamberlin]

If the two markets can't easily interact to normalize pricing, there's not much point in discussing why the USA differs so much from EU when it comes to CSi values.

Once open importation is allowed for those model years, we might see a shift. But until then, it's like me complaining that my fully upgraded 1900 sq ft house on a 1/4 acre lot in the Arizona desert isn't worth $2M since a run down 800 sq ft shack near the Monterey coast goes for over a million.

[Alec Cartio]

Wait Wait Wait please!
You're comparing two completely different things. Houses are priced based on their sizes/quality and more so the popularity of the area/city they are in.
NY and LA are of course more popular than Arizona Desert. You're CSi is not worth more because the buyers like the city its in. A CSi is a CSi whether it's on top of the Mount Everest or in in Manhattan. Country taxes have nothing to do with what I'm talking about. That's the fortunate/unfortunate luck of the draw each individual faces depending on which country they call home.

If the two markets can't easily interact to normalize pricing, there's not much point in discussing why the USA differs so much from EU when it comes to CSi values.

Once open importation is allowed for those model years, we might see a shift. But until then, it's like me complaining that my fully upgraded 1900 sq ft house on a 1/4 acre lot in the Arizona desert isn't worth $2M since a run down 800 sq ft shack near the Monterey coast goes for over a million.

[72tpik5]

The owners sure do... lol

Taylor btw. I did a currency and price comparison conversion from 1992-1996 between the Deutche Mark and US Dollars for the price difference between Euro CSI's and US CSi and the they came out to be almost exactly the same price. 182000-183000 Deutche Marks equals US CSi= $104800, Euro CSi=$105300. My question now is why the market (or our own people) have blown up the Euro CSi as to being more expensive now because weighing in the different options from the time and their prices, both cars were worth the same amount of money. Now I don't care if the Euro CSi has AHK and all that, our cars were given valuable options to which should make both market versions have the same value TODAY. Don't you think buddy?

I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you owned a Euro CSI? Just asking a question, no insult intended. The Euro version does seem to have the options that most 8 owners lust for. If I had the opportunity to choose between a Euro and US CSI, same condition, mileage, etc, I would buy the Euro version without question. IMHO (which has no value what so ever) The market will dictate current prices, original sale prices have no impact on today's numbers. My 97 stickered for $105k, a ridiculous number, which has no relevance on it's value today. But I sure wish that it did!

[clubE31]

I wonder if you would have the same opinion if you owned a Euro CSI? Just asking a question, no insult intended. The Euro version does seem to have the options that most 8 owners lust for. If I had the opportunity to choose between a Euro and US CSI, same condition, mileage, etc, I would buy the Euro version without question. IMHO (which has no value what so ever) The market will dictate current prices, original sale prices have no impact on today's numbers. My 97 stickered for $105k, a ridiculous number, which has no relevance on it's value today.

yep... market determines the price and people value the EU CSI more at the moment, difficult to argue against.....(might change, my 2 cents it will not ....).