Help needed, Touring Celis rear light retrofit

[Fr1D4y]

Hi, as the title suggests I need help installing a set of Celis rear lights in my '99 (pre-facelift) E39 540i6 sport touring.

I bought the lights (euro spec and without the hella retrofit kit, just the light units out of the back of a later model)

I've polished them up with some plastic polish and they look really fantastic, albeit at the bottom of a cardboard box and waiting for me to figure out the next bit.

I've done the research and realise that my '99 doesn't have the correct LCM to code for LED tails (incorrect input voltage for LEDs, meant for halogens etc) In order to code, I would need a later LCM and the correct program to code with, like NCSExpert, or SSSProgman etc. I would then need to input the chassis number and mileage and then check the correct boxes using those programs, I get all that.

The problem I have is that I don't know which LCM module to look for. I've scoured ebay looking at the various different LCMs out there and compared part numbers with those on RealOEM.com, but even that is difficult as the majority of numbers I put in RealOEM aren't even recognised. From what I've read I think I need an LCM III or LCM IIIb or an LCM IV, but some are listed with "MIT MAN LWR" and as I have auto levelling AE xenons installed (retrofit), do I then need one with "MIT AUTO LWR AND XENON CONTROL" printed on the part number sticker?, Or is this simply to avoid having to Code them, ie if I buy one with "MIT MAN LWR" then can I still code it for use with auto levelling xenons?

Im confused, please help, my head hurts.

Many thanks, Ian.

[Alpejohn]

Hi,

On my 2003 model, i have LCM4.

The "bulb check control/lamp check control" is deactivated when you have cells lights.
I tried to activate this check control for my rear lights, and they acted just as they would on a pre-face
with retrofitted celis lights and stock LCM, they flashed when starting, and continued to flash when the car was idling.
And let me point out, this was with the LCM4 thats made for celis lights.

So, my point is that if you can deactivate the bulb check/lamp check control in your LCM, you dont need to change it.
I think thats the only thing thats different, it certainly looks that way, as they flashed on my 03 model with the check control activated when
it was deactivated when the car came from the factory.

Its the same when you install led bulbs in the front fog lamps, they will flash the same way as the retrofitted tail lights until you deactivate the
check control.
The only problem is, that i dont know if its possible to deactivate it on the older LCM`s.

BTW, my father has a 98 model E39, he have retrofitted celis lights, and changed the LCM to a LCM3. He talked to our local bmw dealership, and they told him that if he wanted to use a newer LCM, he could use one from between 2001-2002. I dont remember what month of the year, but if you call your dealer they might be able to tell you that.
Im going to mount back his old LCM and try to see if its possible to deactivate the check control with Ncs Expert.

[Fr1D4y]

Thanks for the reply. If it was just a matter of getting around the bulb out warnings, I could use relays or as you say, code my existing LCM to stop the appropriate checks.

However, I was under the impression that the LED's need no more than 12V input, and that you need to code your existing halogen orientated LCM to act as a voltage regulator and ensure no more than 12V is supplied to the tail lights. As most healthy alternators will charge up to 14V, if 14V is supplied, this will overdrive the LEDs and make them burn out quickly.

Pre-facelift LCMs like mine don't have the option to code for LED tails, so it seems the way to go is to upgrade to a later post-facelift LCM and code it for the LEDs. Trouble is, I don't know which LCM to look for.

[bmv528ie39]

On my 99 528i i have the lcmIII, and i retrofitted celis tails. I was able to code it for using led, meaning it regulates the voltage, but you cannot turn off the cold monitoring. So every time i turn on the car the celis tubes flicker for about 5 seconds and i get bulb out warning on my dash. I plan on installing the lcm4 to correct this.

[Alpejohn]

I can ask my dad what model year he had to use when he changed his if you want.

I havent checked the volt at my celis lights, but would be interesting thing to do..to confirm that it actualy regulate thr voltage..

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[bmv528ie39]

Theres a led parameter in ncsexpert so one would assume it does regulate it, but you what they say about assuming.

[Alpejohn]

Yea, think im gonna check it tomorrow

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[Fr1D4y]

On my 99 528i i have the lcmIII, and i retrofitted celis tails. I was able to code it for using led, meaning it regulates the voltage, but you cannot turn off the cold monitoring. So every time i turn on the car the celis tubes flicker for about 5 seconds and i get bulb out warning on my dash. I plan on installing the lcm4 to correct this.

Now that's interesting, I assumed as I have a '99 pre facelift E39 that I would have a much earlier LCM which has no option to code for LED tail lights as they didn't exist before the facelift in 2001, but if you have an LCMIII in your '99 then it might be worth checking to see what's actually installed in mine. Do you know what the part number is on your LCM? and do you have Auto levelling Xenons in the front?

It seems a bit daft to have an LCMIII capable of coding for LEDs but unable to turn off cold monitoring as you cannot cold monitor LED based lights. They are too fast acting when the blip of power is sent to them. Halogens take a small amount of time to actually emit light when voltage is sent to them so the blip is enough to check the circuit is good but not enough to actually light the bulb. LEDs are instant so no blip will be short enough to stop them emitting light, hence the flickering, so you can't cold monitor. That's my understanding anyway, and apologies if you already knew this Maybe a program other than NCSExpert will be able to turn off the cold monitoring?

On the other hand, if you want to avoid the expense of installing an LCMIV, there is a way to stop the flicker by wiring in some automotive relays which fool the LCM into thinking it has halogens installed. The relay will act far slower than the near instant LED, so the blip of power isn't enough to activate the relay, but is enough to check the circuit is OK. I did this when I installed LED AE's in the front of mine recently, and the flicker stopped. Unfortunately you would still need to code the LCM to turn off the bulb out check, or use ballasts. Anyhow, here's a link to some info on this: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...yes-flickering

--------------------

@ Alpejohn


I would guess you would see no more than 12V supply to your LED's, and with the engine running your battery should be be charging above that, if the LCM does what people on the forums suggest it does. As you say, assumption is a dangerous thing so it would be good to actually check this, thanks.

[Fr1D4y]

I got some time this morning to whip out the trim around the LCM and see whats actually fitted. Sure enough, there was an LCM III sat right there.

Next job is to see what I can do with NCSExpert regarding voltage regulation. If there is an option for LED tails, which still makes no sense to me but hey, I'll take a reading of the output and post up results.

[Alpejohn]

It looks like the LCM3 was starting delivery in 99 models

[RVAE34]

I haven't coded mine yet but from my understanding, you need the LKMIIIb or LKMIV to correctly do the conversion. I got the LKMIIIb.

[Alpejohn]

Hi,

I have messured the volt at my celis, it shows 12.0 volt when engine running, my rear fog lamp shows 12.3 at the same time.

So there is a difference of 0.3 volt, witch isnt very much..
Think it would be fine if you where able to deactivate the cold monitoring, and the hot if the light isnt stable when turned on..



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[bmv528ie39]

.

[Alpejohn]

Hm, well i guess thats the answer to my question if its possible tondeaktivate bulb check on older modules.

But somebody told me that in the older you can turn off the whole bulb check.. But that wouldnt be as good as you never get warned about bulb fails again..

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[Fr1D4y]

I've just had my first taste of coding using NCSExpert, and I'm afraid its gone wrong and I could use some help.

I used NCSDummy to make things easier, and it all seems fairly straight forward. Anyhow, I was uber careful while ticking boxes etc, following to the letter, Revtor's own guide for coding with NCSExpert and using NCSDummy. I made backups, and backups of backups, and logged any changes made in a separate .txt file just in case. I found and checked the box for the LED tail light option, and uploaded that to the LCM, nothing else. The guide recommends that you turn the ignition off and on in case the module needs that to apply the changes you made, so I did that and then realised both my AE's and low beams were now on, even with the light switch off. Turning the light switch made no difference except for activating the self levelling motors when I switch the low beams to the on position. Turning the switch back off again made no difference and both AEs and low beams stayed on. The only way to turn them off was and still is, to turn the ignition off.

While I was at this stage, I checked the voltages at the back of the car with the engine running, and the rear tail lights were getting roughly 13.5V so the LED tail light option doesnt seem to work, at least not yet.

Anyhow, to fix the headlight issue I tried reloading the backups I made, and it had no effect; headlights still stayed on. I pulled the trace file from the LCM to see if the backup had reversed the LED option I checked, and sure enough it was all back to normal as far as I could tell, albeit with the headlights still staying on.

I've since been back in and checked and unchecked various options regarding DRL settings etc but still nothing. Strangely the first line of code to change in the LCM, concerns the operation of the light switch. This was set to innactive from original which seemed odd. I tried setting that to active but still have permanent headlights.

I've loaded the backups back in again and as a last resort have disconnected the battery, in the hope that it may miraculously clear itself when I reconnect it, after I've finished typing this SOS up.

Something else to mention is the self levelling suspension inactive message that always pops up whenever I send the new code to the LCM and turn the ignition off and back on. The error goes away immediately, but it seems strange none the less.

The module is an LCMIII or LCM C.18.

I'll try and post a screen dump of all options in NCSDummy if that's possible, in case someone can spot what's going on.

I will also post this SOS up somewhere else on this forum.

Thanks in advance for any help anyone can give me on this. I would scratch my head more but I think it would bleed soon

[Kenny1958]

I`v installed celis rears in my 99 540 with an LCMIII. 1st i fitted them to the car, and a friend coded it for LED lights in SSS, i was away home at the time and used navcoder to stop cold checks when i was home.
The lights operated ok but they also lit part of the rear lights on one side, it was strange and i finally understood that the cars computer was compensating for the power reduction thinking that the rear lights we not working properly.
Since then i`v changed to using the led module that usually sits under the spare tire to operate the lights, and i`v had no more instances of funny behaviour.
An LCM IV would have been able to replace the led modules under the spare tire, but i`v not seen any available yet, although TBH i`v not really been looking.

[Johntee540]

Personally I Just plugged the Hella OEM Celis tails into the harness on my 99 540iT and left everything alone. I get the Check Taillights OBC Message but its not a problem for me. I can deal - JT

[Fr1D4y]

Personally I Just plugged the Hella OEM Celis tails into the harness on my 99 540iT and left everything alone. I get the Check Taillights OBC Message but its not a problem for me. I can deal - JT

Yeah, I can see the merit in that, this is becoming a real ball ache just to get some upgrade rear lights to work to be honest. The toughest job I've done on my 540 so far is to replace the timing chain tensioner rails, and that includes resetting the VANOS. But this one, with all the coding needed.... meh.

After reading some DIYs about this, I'm just trying to do it properly, the way most people are saying to do it. I also dont want to take the risk of over driving those LEDs, which aren't replaceable, and see my not particularly cheap lights go up in smoke. Thing is, my LCM may have done just that, which equals more money spent on a new LCM, but we'll see.

I used INPA to pull the fault codes fdrom the LCM and there are none. As far as INPA is concerned the LCM is fine.

I also used INPA to read the actual inputs for the light switch, and I can clearly see that when the light switch is operated, it is sending the correct commands to the LCM, so its not a switch problem.

[RVAE34]

This is a bummer. I guess I am going to stick my stock lights and LKM back in until I source an LKM IV instead of the IIIb I wasted my money on. Worst part was that the seller told me it was the 4.

[jstern]

2000 528iT. You guys are going to hate me cause I installed OE Celis tail lights on my car the "wrong" way. After just plugging in the lights (both tailgate & corner), I spent weeks trying to code them properly using Autologic and GT1. Autologic has a feature to retrofit Celis tails but I went through the procedure about a million times and the bulkb check came on as well as a brake light illuminating (LCM thought I had burned out bulbs). The LEDs also pulsated. The shop I used to work at let me use their Autologic for no charge.

I then went to another shop and they used their Autologic as well as their GT1. The GT1 said that the LCM was already coded for Celis but I still had the same symptoms. They charged me $100 for no results.

Soooo I bought 4 tiny 12 volt bulbs and holders and wired them in series with the 4 Celis lights and that cured the bulb out warning. I then wired in four 12 volt voltage regulators which I bought at Radio Shack. Lights work as normal, they are high voltage protected, there is no bulb out warning and there is no pulsating. It all took me just over 1 hour and cost me about $30.

The Celis corner lights have clear tops. I bought red bulbs on Ebay so everything looks great. I like having two red directionals per side as well as 4 red brake lights for safety reasons. American drivers do not pay as much attention to their driving as do their European counterparts.

If anyone wants part numbers, etc. for all this, let me know.

BTW I did all this about 1 year ago and have had no problems.

[Fr1D4y]

2000 528iT. You guys are going to hate me cause I installed OE Celis tail lights on my car the "wrong" way. After just plugging in the lights (both tailgate & corner), I spent weeks trying to code them properly using Autologic and GT1. Autologic has a feature to retrofit Celis tails but I went through the procedure about a million times and the bulkb check came on as well as a brake light illuminating (LCM thought I had burned out bulbs). The LEDs also pulsated. The shop I used to work at let me use their Autologic for no charge.

I then went to another shop and they used their Autologic as well as their GT1. The GT1 said that the LCM was already coded for Celis but I still had the same symptoms. They charged me $100 for no results.

Soooo I bought 4 tiny 12 volt bulbs and holders and wired them in series with the 4 Celis lights and that cured the bulb out warning. I then wired in four 12 volt voltage regulators which I bought at Radio Shack. Lights work as normal, they are high voltage protected, there is no bulb out warning and there is no pulsating. It all took me just over 1 hour and cost me about $30.

The Celis corner lights have clear tops. I bought red bulbs on Ebay so everything looks great. I like having two red directionals per side as well as 4 red brake lights for safety reasons. American drivers do not pay as much attention to their driving as do their European counterparts.

If anyone wants part numbers, etc. for all this, let me know.

BTW I did all this about 2 years ago and have had no problems.

Spot on chap you are correct. I hate you. Just kidding

I like the sound of this idea, and tbh I had read about it before but then saw others "simply" recoded their LCM and it did all the work for them.

On a similar note, I switched to 10W CREE LED's in my AE's and wired them up using 2 relays in order to fool car into thinking it was running halogens, so I get no strobing at all. It works a treat, and still going strong with no problems (except the bulb out warning but I can live with that tbh).

If I can't fix this soon, I'll bite the bullet, get another LCMIII (lots available in UK) and do as you did I think, a far more pragmatic approach.

Any chance you can fire out some specs for the equipment you ended up using?

[jstern]

Radio Shack Product No. 276-1771. Description- 7812 12V Regulator-$1.99 each + Shipping. Bought these online.

NAPA part no. LS6472 or LS6449. These are part numbers for the bulb holders which came with bulbs. I believe they are the same bulbs found in the repeaters on the sides of our cars just behind the front wheels above the side moldings. The smaller wattage 12 volt bulb the better-less heat.

Edit-Napa is an auto parts chain here in the U.S. (http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/Re...Dp%3d3%26N%3d0)

Radio Shack is an electronics chain here (http://www.radioshack.com/product/in...ductId=2062600)

[Daniel325i]

I did mine today with NCS Expert/NCS Dummy and had no problems. I purchased my tails from europe and they came with the LKM/LCM III but I chose not to use it. Using it would mean that I would need to reprogram the mileage and vin on the LKM, the only cable/software I'm aware of that can do this is PASoft. I already have DIS/GT1, INPA, NCS, and carsoft. NCS will allow you to change your lighting options in the LCM, so rather than order a pasoft cable, I opted to try my existing LCM first. I'm NOT very familiar with NCS and was VERY nervous to go messing around with it. Here is what I did, and my results...

My car: 1999 540it
LCMIII C.18 build date week 50 1998

Downloaded my LCM information from the car with NCS expert (I will not explain how to do this due to liability concerns, but you can find the dummies guide here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ith-NCS-Expert)
Did proper data backup
Modified mod file using NCS Dummy (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...-of-NCS-Expert guide here)
-I turned off headlight checks since I went to HID lowbeams and fogs. I was tired of seeing errors and a bong when exiting the car.
-Changed tail light mode to LED
-There are 3 settings about brakelight as hazard light and turn signal. I set all of these 3 to inactive
Uploaded the data back to the LCM

Result:
Lights off = no tail lights on. Brake causes corner brake lights and center to illuminate
Lights on = celis strips and corner brake lights light up. brakes cause corner lights to illuminate more strongly and center light illuminates

The turn signals in the rear never activate with brakes (they did before I made the changes).



Thus far I would have to say this was a success. (disregard egg yolk, stealth bulbs are on the way...)

[Fr1D4y]

I did mine today with NCS Expert/NCS Dummy and had no problems. I purchased my tails from europe and they came with the LKM/LCM III but I chose not to use it. Using it would mean that I would need to reprogram the mileage and vin on the LKM, the only cable/software I'm aware of that can do this is PASoft. I already have DIS/GT1, INPA, NCS, and carsoft. NCS will allow you to change your lighting options in the LCM, so rather than order a pasoft cable, I opted to try my existing LCM first. I'm NOT very familiar with NCS and was VERY nervous to go messing around with it. Here is what I did, and my results...

My car: 1999 540it
LCMIII C.18 build date week 50 1998

Downloaded my LCM information from the car with NCS expert (I will not explain how to do this due to liability concerns, but you can find the dummies guide here: http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ith-NCS-Expert)
Did proper data backup
Modified mod file using NCS Dummy (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...-of-NCS-Expert guide here)
-I turned off headlight checks since I went to HID lowbeams and fogs. I was tired of seeing errors and a bong when exiting the car.
-Changed tail light mode to LED
-There are 3 settings about brakelight as hazard light and turn signal. I set all of these 3 to inactive
Uploaded the data back to the LCM

Result:
Lights off = no tail lights on. Brake causes corner brake lights and center to illuminate
Lights on = celis strips and corner brake lights light up. brakes cause corner lights to illuminate more strongly and center light illuminates

The turn signals in the rear never activate with brakes (they did before I made the changes).



Thus far I would have to say this was a success. (disregard egg yolk, stealth bulbs are on the way...)

Hi Daniel325i, glad it worked out for you OK. I posted up an SOS in another thread and I have since heard that sometimes the LCM can have a fit when coding, resulting in the "lights always on" problems I am still having. The only way to resolve is to reflash to original with DIS, so that is my next step. After that I will try coding with NCS again.

To that end, could you please tell me which exact values you changed in NCS please? Im using NCSDummy as well so the values will be identical. I even have the same LCM and build date so what you did should work fine for me to. Plus I have HID Fogs so I could also use those values as well. Im 99% sure what I did was correct, but there is no harm in double checking.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

[bmv528ie39]

Just so everyone knows if you put celis tails on your car and dont recode the lcm, or regulate the voltage with external ballasts, you will eventually burn your LEDs up, basically ruining your tail lights.