Max Lumens, here is the dimension requested and some more info ....
Input shaft OD = 16.60mm
Input shaft seal:
..............................Original............ .......Supplied in kit
Thickness................4.37mm................... ..4.52mm
OD...........................23.4................. ..........23.75
ID............................17.0................ ...........15.8
ID lip........................16.0................... ........14.6
As you can see, the replacement seal is far from identical to the original seal and appears to be too small ID.
I am not equipped to measure the dims of the cavity into the booster body that this seal fits in. Its a snug fit so will reduce ID measured above which were loose seals. Neither seal has a garter spring.
I await your response...
updated 5/27: The original lip seal has some very small writing inside it. With a microscope I was able to read it... Ate 10.0101-9913.1 CFW NI 17-35 A 4
Last edited by BMSman; 05-27-2016 at 01:27 PM.
IMG_2589.jpgIMG_2590.jpgIMG_2591.jpgIMG_2592.jpgIMG_2593.jpg
Max
Here are some photos of my dismantling the Brake Booster. As BMSman has stated there is much resistance to movement with these seal(s) from the rebuild kit manually.
On my Booster like BMSman, it’s almost impossible to push the actuator through from the inside without a lot of pressure. Removing the seal from the input shaft freed up the moving parts so that they move normally. The input seal I removed is identical to BMSman’s seal he removed that we both received from your kit. This is a much larger and thicker seal. I believe this was and is the culprit, as we have brainstormed other possibilities.
I have though since replaced the Improper Working / Un-functional Re-Built Brake Booster for safety reasons. Max will you replace this seal also. : ) I may be able to use it in the future. The diameter of the seal I removed is approximately 2 ½ mm, measured across.
56robbie60
Last edited by 56robbie60; 05-28-2016 at 04:21 PM.
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:45 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Jay,
I wish it were different but you are are 100% correct! The Cardone unit leaked as soon as it was installed (from the input shaft, all over my carpet)! I'm so pissed off with this I don't know where to begin... now I have to deal with the idiots at Partsgeek.com - my 2nd mistake!
But it did prove the input shaft was the problem I think as the brake pedal returned normally and steering no longer noisy.
Last edited by BMSman; 05-31-2016 at 01:00 PM.
I am so sorry to hear THAT!! All of this should have never happened if we were provided the correct seals. Like you I have the A1Cardone installed ordered from partsgeek. It looked liked the OEM unit out of the box, not painted over and clean, however I have not yet experienced any leaks. This booster issue is turning into a nightmare and a big unnecessary waste of money to have to keep putting out for a satisfactory working part. I'm sure I'm probably due for a failure too, same product same company. We both just wanted to get things right on our cars. Wow! what a mess!!! SHAME ON A1CARDONE!!
- - - Updated - - -
Max you gotta make this right!
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:46 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Jay,
I am an engineer.... My non-professional judgement is offered as a hypothesis and I still believe it to be the most plausible.
The brakes had no air in them - they worked very very well and would not have had there been air in the lines. The master is brand new. My complaint was the brake pedal not returning freely and fully when released. The brake master cylinder will push back when the brakes are engaged but in the pedal up position and well before it, the master cylinder exerts little or no force on the booster shaft - it is entirely the spring in the booster and on the pedal itself that return the brake pedal to the full up position. The spring on the pedal looks to be fine and was not touched - it lifts the pedal fully up when disconnected from the booster.
I do understand there is high pressure behind the input shaft seal but this does not help return the brake pedal when released, on the contrary, it will force the seal to grip the input shaft even tighter. The ML seal is extremely tight even without any pressure behind the seal. With pressure it will be even tighter. I disagree that the spring has sufficient force to overcome this. However, not by much - my pedal was returning, just not as quickly as it should. This kept the brake lights on longer than necessary and dragged the brakes a little.
The seal is just a little too tight for the spring to overcome easily. My original seal did not leak (I would reuse it had I not damaged it with a pick when removing - it is still very flexible) and it has considerably less grip on the shaft. This was preventative maintenance since I had the top end apart for new valve seals! I believe the booster input shaft seal on your website has a slightly larger ID than the ML seal or are you saying it is the same part?
I still may take you up on your offer but since I have already replaced all the seals in the booster and installed the aluminum cup, all I need now is a better fitting input shaft seal.
Since I've had this booster in and out so many times now I have learned a few tips... Place some aluminum foil under the master cylinder before you pull off the reservoir. Shape it into a bowl. You cannot siphon out all of the brake fluid and when you pull it some will flow out over the car if you don't catch it. Afterwards place some paper towels in the captured brake fluid. Once soaked up you can gather up the foil and pull it out with nothing spilled on the car! Do the same thing when removing the master cylinder - rotate it so the inputs/outputs face upwards when lifting it out of the car (no spills). A 17mm crows foot on a 3/8" extension will fit behind the water valve and pump (no need to undo any heater hoses). Very little hydraulic fluid is lost - more aluminum foil will capture this.
Last edited by BMSman; 05-31-2016 at 08:34 PM.
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:47 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Jay, “master6”
From your post, I can tell that you have read and understood the issues (same Issues) that BMSman and I were having upon installing Max Lumens E31 Booster Rebuild Kit. As you have read my initial post, it stated that I didn’t have these slow to return and steering whining issues, “same as BMSman” until the installation of Max’s Kit. I started changing out old parts, due to age and not mileage, as the “8” has only 92K. The changing of old parts was for preventative maintenance that I decided to knock out when the brake bomb failed, and being that the car is 25yrs old having some of the same OEM installed parts. For peace of mind and reliability because I plan on putting highway miles on the “8” this year, I have changed out or is in the process of changing out all the major old worn parts I can. Before changing out and Installing ML Kit in the Brake Booster it worked just fine. But for peace of mind and due to age I decided to do preventative maintenance on the booster, ordered and installed Max’s Kit. Upon installation of the kit, I immediately noticed after driving the car less than a mile the slow to return brake issue. If the car was off and I pumped the brakes the pedal would return quickly but slow to return and a whining in the steering when the car was running. Being that the car is not an everyday driver, like BMSman I believed it was something in the kit I installed. I gave the booster a break-in period, thinking new parts things are tight, but none of that alleviated the problem, it seemed to get worse. With the Kit installed booster I did not experience any leaks. I power bled the brake system and hydraulic and insured no air was in the system. After experiencing this whining and continued slow to return brake issue, I decided the kit installed brake booster had to go. Other members chimed in and gave their opinion as to what the problem may be. I took their advice into consideration, however knew that it had to be something else. I purchased an A1 Cardone Booster. I did some research on the reliability of the Cardone unit and read that the reconditioned units were reconditioned to OEM spec or close to it, so I gave it a try. The unit I received matched my OEM booster exactly from the outside. It read ATE and had the BMW metal stamp. I did not dismantle this unit to check the inner working parts and seals. “just a note when I ordered Max’s kit I did notice that my rear seal was different; it was smaller than the one I received from Max’s kit, the kit has a larger and thicker one.” At that time I didn’t think anything of it as I trusted Max’s rep with the kit." So after I installed the A1 Cardone booster, power bled the brake system, Dot 4 yellow, back to Dot 4 blue, bled the steering using bleeder and suggested steering wheel turns, I took the “8” out for a test drive, no whining no slow to return brake pedal. Everything worked and as to this day works as it is suppose to. So far no leaking. So how are two guys suppose to think. Other members have had issues also. Same issues, from same installation, same source, same brake rebuild kit? I have to believe it has everything/something to do with Max’s kit, reference the before booster, no problems, the kit installation, problems, and after, “reconditioned booster, no problems. I am far from being an expert on booster function, and have tried to find out what has caused this kit install problem, “the so called Culpret term that I used”. Other than the rear seal issue, I still haven’t a solid clue. All the other parts worked just fine and all the seals Max included were visually the same except for the rear seal, it was thicker and larger. I am not an engineer, nor am I a rocket scientist, but I do know the kit I paid Max for $120.00 didn’t work and there has to be a tangible reason. I can understand BMSman’s frustration, bad luck times two. You shouldn’t get or be upset at him; we all have a difference of opinion. The clashing of the minds. Finding out what the problem really is if possible helps all of us including Max. I am very happy you posted your services.
Last edited by 56robbie60; 06-01-2016 at 11:00 AM.
Jay,
I do appreciate your feedback and your latest post led me to this possibility....
When I re-assembled my booster I applied some silicone grease on the input shaft - this may have been a mistake. There is large felt washer inside the rubber boot... I overlooked its purpose which I think is to keep the input shaft lubricated? My felt washer is very dry and perhaps now contaminated with a little silicone grease. Do you pre-soak this felt washer in lubricant and what do you use (you mention Pentosin)?
As 56Robbie60 has experienced also, replacing the booster with Cardone unit fixed the problem - only in my case it leaked oil into the footwell. The problem lies in the booster rebuild.
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:48 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Jay,
I plan to try a different input shaft seal. Do you use a Urethane U-Cup seal? Although metric sizes are available, 5/8" ID x 1"OD x 3/16" thick looks like a close match and a standard size?
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:49 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Master6 Check PM
BMSman did you receive the PM I sent you on Memorial Day?
Here's an update...
Master6 was kind enough to send me a couple of used original input shaft seals and one of them looks to be in good shape - Thank you! I wasn't able to convince him to sell me one of his replacement seals but at least I have something to get me up and running again.
No replies to PM's sent to Max Lumens.... Most of the seals in his kit may be identical to the originals but the input shaft seal most definitely is not. My recommendation would be not to swap this out unless it is leaking (at least if your booster has a 16.6mm input shaft).
Partsgeek.com have processed my refund for the Cardone booster in record time - just a few days. I really can't complain except that I did have to pay return shipping to New York even though the part came from just up the road. Turned out much better than I expected after reading the horror stories online.
I have ordered a small selection of hydraulic seals myself 16 x 24 x 5 mm. These may or may not fit (none have arrived yet). I just found a 16 x 24 x 4.5 mm U-cup seal in Europe - trying to get a few samples!
I ran out of brake fluid and hydraulic fluid so had to order more. Once everything arrives I'll take another stab at this.
Last edited by BMSman; 06-10-2016 at 11:28 PM.
Here's another update ..... I was so peed off I had to take a break from it ....
I rebuilt the booster for about the 4th time this time replacing the input shaft seal with an original part that Master6 was kind enough to give me. And what a difference... no more groaning from the steering and the brake pedal returns just as it should. There is now absolutely no question in my mind that the seal Max Lumens provides in his rebuild kit was the cause of my problems. He by the way never replied to any of my emails.
The Cardone booster that leaked out the box unit went back to Partsgeek and they refunded my full purchase price pretty quickly. I was still out the return postage but expected that.
After looking at the seal in Max Lumens kit more closely it looks like a standard 16 x 24 x 5mm hydraulic seal that has been sanded down to reduce its thickness... it has a noticeably dull face and no markings on the seal whatsoever. I tried doing the same thing to a similar seal I purchased online and was able to replicate it quite nicely.
Found this thread via a Google search. Are there rebuild kits for the E46 brake booster vs spending $150 for one?
If that's the price for a new one, I wouldn't bother rebuilding.
Bump
Last edited by master6; 10-31-2021 at 06:49 PM.
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Ten years old message now. Are you still offering anything for this?
Hi D
For your e31 840, I do not sell a DIY booster kit,
I only do a Hydraulic Brake Booster Rebuilds, for the v8's, it is $195.00 + $28.00 return ship, longer box, + ins
The 850 HBBR is $168.00 + RS $18.00 + ins
I NOW HAVE A NEW WEBSITE, Link : www.jaysbmwparts.com.
Please save as a Favorite
My NEW e-mail LINK : jaycstratton9@gmail.com
Best,
Last edited by master6; 02-22-2023 at 04:13 PM. Reason: new $
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Jay Stratton aka Master6 is great have done a rebuilt brake booster with Jay. Honest and fair very reliable.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Jay
'88 M6 Cinnabar Red / Nappa Natur Highline Interior (10-87) Santa Ana, California. USA
My NEW Website, Link : https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
Booster repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
A/C Wingcell Compressor leak repair
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
e31 Door Handle Fix,
https://www.jaysbmwparts.com
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