Advise need for MAF Sensor for 1992 E34 525 Non Vanos

[Cicakman]

Greetings everyone!

This is my 1st post here and I need some help..

I am currently looking for a replacement MAF sensor for my beloved year 92 525, Non Vanos version.

Can someone let me know where can I find one and have it shipped to Taiwan?

Am looking at Bosch, Lowes Automobile..To name a few..

And should I go for new or refurbished?

Appreciate the reply as the car has been in the garage for few weeks as the MAF sensor is hard to get by in my country..

Thank you..

[moroza]

Hello and welcome!

I have no idea what Taiwanese import/customs are like, but getting them sent there in the first place shouldn't be any harder than anywhere else. Ebay, Amazon, any number of vendors (FCP, RM European, EEuroparts) should have no problem mailing to Taiwan.

[Cicakman]

Hello and welcome!

I have no idea what Taiwanese import/customs are like, but getting them sent there in the first place shouldn't be any harder than anywhere else. Ebay, Amazon, any number of vendors (FCP, RM European, EEuroparts) should have no problem mailing to Taiwan.

Thanks for the reply !

So should I be getting the OEM Bosch or any other compatitable will do? Example Löwe Automobil?

This is the part number I am looking for - 0280213011..

Is this a good buy? - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mass-Air-Fl...-/140936490915

[shogun]

I would not buy the one from Ebay, that is a cheap chinese copy, Brand: IP-Parts. By original Bosch and not a Bosch copy. A MAF is to important.

We have discussed that in length on the German forum and someone chimed in who works for Bosch where the original ones for the E31 850 among others are made, here his comment in German and below a quick translation:
Ich arbeite für das Bosch-Werk in ....... und wir bauen die LMM, über die hier gesprochen wird fuer den M70. Vom Typ her sind es Hitzdraht-LMM, bei denen ein Platindraht oder ein platinbeschichteter Golddraht durch den Luftstrom gekühlt und über den Widerstand ein elektrisches Signal aufgebaut wird. Genau dieser Draht ist zu 90% die Ursache für einen Defekt. Es gibt einen Bosch-Standort . Hier werden die zurückgesandten Austausch-LMM aufgearbeitet, d.h. es werden neue Drähte eingezogen. Die nicht zu reparierenden 10% werden entsorgt. Ihr glaubt gar nicht, was unsere Qualitätsabteilung für einen Schrott aus aller Welt bekommt, wo auch LMM drauf steht. Manchmal ist sogar das Bosch-Zeichen oder unsere Werk-Nummer aufgeprägt. Teilweise sind die Teile sogar ganz gut gemacht. Hier ist dann nur die Abgleichkurve grundverschieden (bei uns wird jeder einzelne LMM mit einer festgelegten Luftkennlinie beaufschlagt und abgeglichen, somit sind sie gegeneinander austauschbar) und der Motor läuft sogar irgendwie (allerdings mit Einschränkungen wie Mehrverbrauch, schlechter Motorlauf usw.). Es gibt aber auch Teile, die ganz billig mit einem Kupferdraht aufgebaut wurden. Die sind teilweise den Materialpreis nicht wert. Also Obacht vor den "absoluten Sonderangeboten". Was billig ist, ist nicht immer gut.

I work for the Bosch plant in ....... and we build the MAFs, which is spoken here for the M70. In terms of type, it is hot-wire MAF in which a platinum wire or a platinum-coated gold wire is cooled by the air flow and an electrical signal is generated via the resistor. This wire is 90% the cause of a defect. There is a Bosch location where these are repaired. The returned replacement MAFs are processed, for example new wires are installed. The 10% that can not be repaired are disposed of. You will not even believe what scrap our quality department gets from all over the world. Sometimes even the Bosch mark or our factory number is imprinted. Partly the parts are even quite well done. Here then only the adjustment curve is fundamentally different (in our case each MAF is charged with a defined air characteristic and adjusted, so they are interchangeable) and the engine even runs somehow (but with restrictions such as excess consumption, poor engine operation, etc.). But there are also parts that were built very cheap with a copper wire. Some of them are not worth the material price. So watch out and be carefulwith the "absolute special offers". What is cheap is not always good.

[Cicakman]

Thanks for the reply ! Then I guess its either Bosch or nothing else for the MAF sensor?

I found a used one here - https://www.ebay.com.my/itm/123377657133, any advise?

[shogun]

well, that you have to decide, used might work or might not work, that you see after installation. Bosch 0 280 213 011 = BMW 13621722489, 13621730074, 7527518 6-pole
Bosch 0 280 213 011 remanufactured by Bosch is new p/n BOSCH 0 986 280 116 , offered for example here https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mass-Air-Flo...30797#shpCntId
Maybe you also search for such p/n, remanufactured by Bosch, not by a backyard repair shop.

[Cicakman]

well, that you have to decide, used might work or might not work, that you see after installation. Bosch 0 280 213 011 = BMW 13621722489, 13621730074, 7527518 6-pole
Bosch 0 280 213 011 remanufactured by Bosch is new p/n BOSCH 0 986 280 116 , offered for example here https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mass-Air-Flo...30797#shpCntId
Maybe you also search for such p/n, remanufactured by Bosch, not by a backyard repair shop.

Interesting for letting me there are more part numbers for reference !

I stumbled upon this - https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mass-Air-Fl...-/253969379455

Is LÖWE automobil® an OEM for BMW? recommended?

Thank you !

[fo3]

I've never heard of LOWE. Could be a good option? E: Their website seems a little incomplete (and so slow) so I'm not sure if they are just a made up name selling chinese stuff? It's funny that the only MAF they sell or list on their site is the one that's well known as the commonly made chinese e34 m50 NV MAF we're looking for.

Original part number was 13621730074 but isn't available as they are no longer made by bosch. The genuine BMW option was a remanufactured bosch unit - part# 13627527518 but good luck in finding one in stock for under $1000

I did look at getting a reman MAF using the bosch number (0280213011) but most results from that number were clearly chinese copies. The BMW part number mainly just gets you NLA results or really high prices ($800+) for bosch reman and core to be sent back.
With the bosch part number I could find the trail from alibaba/aliexpress china to all the USA stores selling them at a 100$ mark up

The 2 options I knew about are chinese ones ~$100 or a claimed reman from 'cardone industries' which you can find in US auto parts stores and ebay. I have no info on the cardone ones except for the fact it seems a legit US company. I don't know if the AFMs are legit though. I think they are plain NLA and every part out there is a chinese copy, so s/h might be best?

[shogun]

LÖWE automobil is a German registered company active in the aftermarket for car sensors mainly, low prices and no own production, they just buy and sell under their brand name, too cheap to be good in my opinion.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/L%C3%B6we_Automobil

I personally would buy a functioning used Bosch instead of aftermarket.

There is hardly anything in the world that some man cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price only are this man's lawful prey. John Ruskin

[The Chauffeur]

I personally would buy a functioning used Bosch instead of aftermarket.

+1

Welcome, BTW . I'm in the same boat as you; we the non-vanos crowd are underserved in the MAF department... I was also contemplating going with a Cardone one; they're an old, reputable, and well-established company, but I can't see how they'd enforce a "Bosch only" policy with the cores they accept. That's why I went for a used Bosch one, and I also got another one to keep as a spare, they're starting to get scarce and go up in price.

Not to deviate from the subject, and also not to suggest this as a solution: how smart would it be to install an equivalent (same specs and all) Bosch MAF with a different connector? What about the ones from the vanos models? I don't remember where, but I've seen tables about interchangeability between MAFs from different cars from the same era. Of course, I mean as a last resort...

[dennistgt]

well, that you have to decide, used might work or might not work, that you see after installation. Bosch 0 280 213 011 = BMW 13621722489, 13621730074, 7527518 6-pole
Bosch 0 280 213 011 remanufactured by Bosch is new p/n BOSCH 0 986 280 116 , offered for example here https://www.ebay.ie/itm/Mass-Air-Flo...30797#shpCntId
Maybe you also search for such p/n, remanufactured by Bosch, not by a backyard repair shop.

hi shogun, my car is bmw e34 520i 1993 m50b20 non vanos manual.
the maf sensor code is 0 280 212 025, do you know where i can get the new one for this maf?

[dennistgt]

my car is bmw e34 520i non vanos m50b20 1993 manual.
country: Indonesia

and looking for maf with 6 pin
current maf code: 0 280 212 025

<a href="https://drive.google.com/file/d/1z0plzE2GjY-SnlFas8vggGul4lWPQe63/view?usp=sharing"> click here to see the current maf picture</a>

do you have any idea where to buy this part?

i need new part from german manufacturer or refurbished, (already buy 2 maf from china and both of it not working even the socket is fit)

[shogun]

Looks like worldwide no stock of the original 0 280 212 025 Bosch. I would keep checking Ebay from time to time for a used original Bosch one. You can also post a want to buy here in the E34 classifieds, maybe another member still has a used one on stock.
I recall some threads about Kevin at Injection Labs in USA about his MAF rebuilding service. http://www.injectionlabs.com
and in Germany https://www.extra-classics.de/ https://www.extra-classics.de/M70-LM...messer/EC53022

[dennistgt]

Looks like worldwide no stock of the original 0 280 212 025 Bosch. I would keep checking Ebay from time to time for a used original Bosch one. You can also post a want to buy here in the E34 classifieds, maybe another member still has a used one on stock.
I recall some threads about Kevin at Injection Labs in USA about his MAF rebuilding service. http://www.injectionlabs.com
and in Germany https://www.extra-classics.de/ https://www.extra-classics.de/M70-LM...messer/EC53022

hi shogun
my car is
bmw e34 520i non vanos 1993
and got rich on cylinder 1 and 6 (the first cylinder and last cylinder)

i already test compression test got around (156 - 163 psi all cylinder)
no leak boot intake (already did smoke test)
new tps sensor
new camshaft sensor
new fuel pump bosch
already try exchange the fuel injector (and still rich on same cylinder)

i think that i haven't change is maf sensor..
but the rpm it seems stable and i use it without issues.

my car don't have o2 sensor because on that year my country (indonesia) still use leaded fuel

the question, is it normal?

[shogun]

if only 2 cylinders have rich fuel, then I assume it is not the MAF, maybe the fuel injectors on those cylinders are the problem, but you already replaced them.Or the ignition coils on these 2 cylinder are not good?
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...il_spark_plug/ try swapping the ignition coils. Let's wait for comments from other members which have more experience with that engine.

[Old525i]

http://www.injectionlabs.com/massmeter.html

[dennistgt]

if only 2 cylinders have rich fuel, then I assume it is not the MAF, maybe the fuel injectors on those cylinders are the problem, but you already replaced them.Or the ignition coils on these 2 cylinder are not good?
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...il_spark_plug/ try swapping the ignition coils. Let's wait for comments from other members which have more experience with that engine.

already swap the ignition coil and fuel injector on that cylinder

also already test the ignition coil using ignition coil tester (all good, all cylinder shows same habits)

but still no luck, still rich on 1 and 6

is it possible if the motronic / dme fault? (so i need to change the motronic)

[dennistgt]

if only 2 cylinders have rich fuel, then I assume it is not the MAF, maybe the fuel injectors on those cylinders are the problem, but you already replaced them.Or the ignition coils on these 2 cylinder are not good?
http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E3...il_spark_plug/ try swapping the ignition coils. Let's wait for comments from other members which have more experience with that engine.

after i hear the fuel injector using screwdriver and my ear, it sound tapping more frequently on cylinder 1 and 6..

is that normal?

[shogun]

not normal. Here explained for the DME M1.1 and 1.3, but all work based on same principle.
Fuel injection
The Motronic ECU contains a fuel map with an injector opening time for basic conditions of speed and load. Information is then gathered from engine sensors such as the AFS, CAS, CTS, and TS. As a result of this information, the ECU will look-up the correct injector pulse duration right across the engine rpm, load and temperature range. The injectors are arranged in two banks with injectors 1 and 3 (4 cylinder) or 1, 3 and 5 (6 cylinder comprising one bank, and injectors 2 and 4 (4 cylinder) or 2, 4 and 6 (6 cylinder) making up the other bank. Each bank is connected to the ECU via an independent ECU pin. The Motronic 1.1 & 1.3 multi-point injection system pulses the injectors semi-sequentially and once every two engine revolutions. During engine start-up below 600 rpm the ECU pulses all injectors simultaneously. Once 600 rpm has been attained and if the ECU has received a signal from the CID sensor, each injector bank will be pulsed alternatively according to which pair of cylinders are approaching TDC. If a signal is not received from the CID sensor the injectors will remain on simultaneous operation. However, if the CID sensor subsequently sends a signal to the ECU after the engine has commenced running, the ECU will pulse the injectors semi-sequentially after the next deceleration phase - even if the CID sensor then ceases to send a signal. During start-up from cold, injector pulse duration is increased to provide a richer air/fuel mixture and pulse frequency is also increased. In addition, the ignition timing is also retarded. Injector frequency & pulse duration and degree of timing retard depend upon the engine temperature both during start-up and immediately afterwards. If the engine is restarted within one minute of the first start occurance, less overall fuel is injected to reduce the risk of fuel flooding into the engine.

Fuel injectors
The fuel injector is a magnetically operated solenoid valve that is actuated by the ECU. Voltage to the injectors is applied from the main relay and the earth path is completed by the ECU for a period of time (called pulse duration) of between 1.5 and 10 milliseconds. The pulse duration is very much dependant upon engine temperature, load, speed and operating conditions. When the magnetic solenoid closes, a back EMF voltage of up to 60 volts is initiated. The fuel injectors are mounted in the inlet stubs to the engine inlet valves so that a finely atomised fuel spray is directed onto the back of each valve. Since the injectors are pulsed in two banks, fuel will briefly rest upon the back of a valve before being drawn into a cylinder.

[dennistgt]

not normal. Here explained for the DME M1.1 and 1.3, but all work based on same principle.
Fuel injection
The Motronic ECU contains a fuel map with an injector opening time for basic conditions of speed and load. Information is then gathered from engine sensors such as the AFS, CAS, CTS, and TS. As a result of this information, the ECU will look-up the correct injector pulse duration right across the engine rpm, load and temperature range. The injectors are arranged in two banks with injectors 1 and 3 (4 cylinder) or 1, 3 and 5 (6 cylinder comprising one bank, and injectors 2 and 4 (4 cylinder) or 2, 4 and 6 (6 cylinder) making up the other bank. Each bank is connected to the ECU via an independent ECU pin. The Motronic 1.1 & 1.3 multi-point injection system pulses the injectors semi-sequentially and once every two engine revolutions. During engine start-up below 600 rpm the ECU pulses all injectors simultaneously. Once 600 rpm has been attained and if the ECU has received a signal from the CID sensor, each injector bank will be pulsed alternatively according to which pair of cylinders are approaching TDC. If a signal is not received from the CID sensor the injectors will remain on simultaneous operation. However, if the CID sensor subsequently sends a signal to the ECU after the engine has commenced running, the ECU will pulse the injectors semi-sequentially after the next deceleration phase - even if the CID sensor then ceases to send a signal. During start-up from cold, injector pulse duration is increased to provide a richer air/fuel mixture and pulse frequency is also increased. In addition, the ignition timing is also retarded. Injector frequency & pulse duration and degree of timing retard depend upon the engine temperature both during start-up and immediately afterwards. If the engine is restarted within one minute of the first start occurance, less overall fuel is injected to reduce the risk of fuel flooding into the engine.

Fuel injectors
The fuel injector is a magnetically operated solenoid valve that is actuated by the ECU. Voltage to the injectors is applied from the main relay and the earth path is completed by the ECU for a period of time (called pulse duration) of between 1.5 and 10 milliseconds. The pulse duration is very much dependant upon engine temperature, load, speed and operating conditions. When the magnetic solenoid closes, a back EMF voltage of up to 60 volts is initiated. The fuel injectors are mounted in the inlet stubs to the engine inlet valves so that a finely atomised fuel spray is directed onto the back of each valve. Since the injectors are pulsed in two banks, fuel will briefly rest upon the back of a valve before being drawn into a cylinder.

btw my dme is 3.1 motronic bosch

so from your explanation, should i change my dme? and try to change my temperature sensor that send signal to ecu?

correct me if im wrong:
AFS, (Air flow Sensor)
CAS, (Crankshaft sensor)
CTS, (Camshaft sensor)
TS, (Throttle Position Sensor)


and what is CID? where is CID sensor located?


or do you have conclusion what should i check next?
bank 1 and bank 6 always give black spark plug when i pull it out.

thank you sirr

[shogun]

I would test the sensors if they are according to specification, see Bentley Repair Manual E34. Or maybe you can find something here https://e30.dev/?load=tis&l=disc2

and what is CID? where is CID sensor located?>> on some models like the M30 engine the cylinder identification sensor aka donut on the ignition wire, see more details http://www.944online.com/yabbfiles/A...tronic-1_3.pdf

[dennistgt]

I would test the sensors if they are according to specification, see Bentley Repair Manual E34. Or maybe you can find something here https://e30.dev/?load=tis&l=disc2

and what is CID? where is CID sensor located?>> on some models like the M30 engine the cylinder identification sensor aka donut on the ignition wire, see more details http://www.944online.com/yabbfiles/A...tronic-1_3.pdf

i just read the article, CID for my car with engine m50 is camshaft position sensor
already replace the sensor, it run better but still rich on cylinder 1 and 6

if its because CAS sensor -> my car would not easyly start

for now, my car condition when starting is just easy start, 3 crank and it's already on..
on uphill around 30 degree, just put gear 1 no pressing gas pedal, it still run strong no stalling (but still little bit jerky)..

AFS -> still works, i pull the wire when car is on, and its jerky. if AFS is bad all of cylinder should be lean or rich (but the rich is just on 1 and 6)

my car acceleration on gear 1 i think still feeling strong, but my question is why still rich on 1 and 6

my car is non vanos 1993 (i have read article they said that old car running little bit rich but i see on youtube m50 vanos all the spark plug is greyish brown, no black)

maybe vanos and non vanos have different system for fuel injection flow?

correct me if im wrong, or should it be dme fault? should i need to change the DME?

[dennistgt]

[QUOTE=shogun;30891881]I would test the sensors if they are according to specification, see Bentley Repair Manual E34. Or maybe you can find something here https://e30.dev/?load=tis&l=disc2
i've just scanned the car and got
fuel injector output stage

[shogun]

From OBD code book: 1283 Fuel Injector Output Stage:This code is stored when a break or short-circuit occurs temporarily at an injector valve, wiring from the DME to an injector or the injector stage of the DME is damaged. Check wiring to injectors, pull & clean connectors at each injector and connector at the engine control module
This can include ground wires. Grounding of electrical components on BMW engines is critical. Check carefully for broken ground straps from the engine to the chassis.

[devid M50]

shogun

I have one in my car that has 6 pins and I'm not sure if it works or not. Is there a way to check?