The Definitive Alignment Guide for your E36 M3

[RRSperry]

Where can I find these shims for the front lower struts to increase camber? What dimensions should I look for. Just looking for a cheap camber fix for my DD.

Cheap fix? Swap your strut hats. That will give you about -2.5 deg in front on your 97. One issue about shims that I haven't seen mentioned is that they will reduce clearance between the tire and the strut. This might or might not be an issue, depending on tire brand and size.

[DanTheM3Man]

Alright, thanks for the advice, I'm going to see if they can give a second go at it, I mean for the price of the camber plates and how easy it is to adjust them, they should get them equal. I also don't think the kid knew what 1/8" toe in meant in the rear, so I'll use the decimals so he gets it right. It seems he was going by what the computer said and he was really leary as to why I didn't want the factory specs.

The coilovers are excellent, no complaints. I'm running 550/650 spring rates and they are still smooth over bumps. It does get bumpy under 25 mph, but the handling is awesome, and I drive on backroads mostly anyways.

So I took it back and the same tech worked on it and got everything very close this time. He didn't know about the camber plates and was trying to adjust camber at the lower end of the strut! I don't think he ever saw camber plates before. He gave me some slight toe-in so I'll have 0 under load. He was young, so I gave him a $5 tip for getting it right the second time.

My final specs:
front:
camber: -2.5,-2.4
caster: 6.4,7.1
toe: .05,.06 (stock is .13-.21)

rear:
camber: -1.6,-1.8
toe: .10,.10

These settings make the car more responsive and it really digs deep into the turns compared to factory specs. The front doesn't want to push in the turns anymore and gives the car a ton more handling.

[ChosenGSR]

Great info in this thread.

What about ride height ? How low can you go without compromising performance. I'm looking to raise my car, my tie rods are pointing to the sky.

That's a good question, I've never found a definitive answer especially regarding the rear. I am currently running 12.75" front and 12.25" rear and it's seems like a perfect height. Then you have those that swear that Ground Control recommends low 12s front and low 11s in the rear, that seems absurdly low to me.

[douglee25]

I saw earlier in the thread that you could add shims to the lower mount on the strut. This would gain about -1 degree camber. What is the amount of camber that can be obtained with just a stock setup on a '97 m3? Can you obtain say -1 to 1.5 degrees camber with the stock setup then add the shims to obtain another -1 degrees of camber for a total of -2.5 degrees?

Doug

[V8EATR]

Great write-up! Sticky this!!
Very helpful!

[bmwpowere36m3]

That's a good question, I've never found a definitive answer especially regarding the rear. I am currently running 12.75" front and 12.25" rear and it's seems like a perfect height. Then you have those that swear that Ground Control recommends low 12s front and low 11s in the rear, that seems absurdly low to me.

Barring a pure race setup, GC recommends around ~13"F & 11.75"R, which I found to be a nice compromise for DD and tracking the car. Their Race recommendation is 12.25"F which would mean I wouldn't make it up my own driveway and scrap on everything

[joenationwide]

I saw earlier in the thread that you could add shims to the lower mount on the strut. This would gain about -1 degree camber. What is the amount of camber that can be obtained with just a stock setup on a '97 m3? Can you obtain say -1 to 1.5 degrees camber with the stock setup then add the shims to obtain another -1 degrees of camber for a total of -2.5 degrees?
Doug

Stock M3 is usually -1 to -1.5 deg camber. So with the shims, this might bump it to -2 to -2.5 deg camber. Just to be clear, you can only use 1 shim per bolt (in other words, you can not keep adding shims for more camber, because the bolt is too short and you will not have enough thread engagement.) Also, as RRSperry said, shimming the lower strut mounts brings your tire closer to the strut, which can become an issue quickly with coilovers. For a 97M3, Id just swap the strut hats.

Barring a pure race setup, GC recommends around ~13"F & 11.75"R, which I found to be a nice compromise for DD and tracking the car. Their Race recommendation is 12.25"F which would mean I wouldn't make it up my own driveway and scrap on everything

I like this ride height too. The front does not like to be lowered too much, the rear works fine the more you lower it. However, if you dont have enough camber up front, the rear will have much more grip than the front and the car will push everywhere. Its a balance. But too low in the front doesn't work.

[douglee25]

Stock M3 is usually -1 to -1.5 deg camber. So with the shims, this might bump it to -2 to -2.5 deg camber. Just to be clear, you can only use 1 shim per bolt (in other words, you can not keep adding shims for more camber, because the bolt is too short and you will not have enough thread engagement.) Also, as RRSperry said, shimming the lower strut mounts brings your tire closer to the strut, which can become an issue quickly with coilovers. For a 97M3, Id just swap the strut hats.

Thanks for the advice. I'm am unsure what I'm going to do at the moment (shims or swap strut hats). I do know that so far I've replaced the RTABS, rear shock mounts, and rear shocks in the past week and the car already handles a ton better. I can't wait to finish with the front struts, LCAB, and an alignment. It will be nice with a freshened suspension.

Doug

[LinxJinx]

I read through the whole thread and I have a question about the 95 M3 in particular.

I just refreshed my suspension keeping the 95 strut hats.
I have a set the newer 96+ stut hats that came with the suspension I swapped in.

I retained the 95 strut hats under the impression that using 96+ strut hats would send the suspension geometry out of wack.

My question is if I perform the 96+ strut hat swap to increase negative camber will it have a negative effect on the caster because of the offset geometry?

At the same time could I add a 5mm washer/shim to bring total negative camber up to 3.5 after the swap? or is it a one or the other only kind if thing?

auto-x season starts soon but money is tight, looking to get the most negative camber without going to vorshlag camber plates.

[douglee25]

I read through the whole thread and I have a question about the 95 M3 in particular.

I just swapped my suspension for a set of blistien sports/H&R sports all around keeping the 95 strut hat.

The suspension came with a set of 96-99 strut hats as well though.

Can the newer strut hats be swapped on Right to Left / Left to Right without having a negative effect on the additional caster that the offset geometry gives in a bid to gain more negative camber?

At the same time could you swap the stut hats and add a shim to bring in about -3 degrees camber to the front on a 95 M3?

auto-x season starts soon but money is tight, looking to get the most negative camber without going to vorshlag camber plates.

I read through that 5X and I still can't understand what you're trying to acomplish. Help me out.

Doug

[RRSperry]

Short answer, no. (yes you can do it, and some have, but it isn't the best solution) The offset strut mounts will have neg effect on caster. If you are willing, you could get 96 lca's and bushings and do the swap along with the hats.) I think I really prefer the 95 geometry.

The only problems with shims, is the two bolts attaching the kingpin to the strut are pretty short. Thus limiting the thickness of shims you can use. If you sourced some longer grade 10.8 or better bolts, the limiting factor is clearance between the tire and the strut.

[joenationwide]

My question is if I perform the 96+ strut hat swap to increase negative camber will it have a negative effect on the caster because of the offset geometry?

At the same time could I add a 5mm washer/shim to bring total negative camber up to 3.5 after the swap? or is it a one or the other only kind if thing?

I'd go for the camber and not be too worried about caster. I say that because even though the conventional wisdom says you want to max out caster, there are some who say you do not. Odortiz went from 95 offset Lower Control Arm Bushings (LCABs) to the centered 96 LCABs. I forgot his explanation, but he was convinced. [Maybe something about weight jacking???] M3s already have adequate caster, its the camber that is most important IMHO.

Oh yeah, the washer/shim method is really the cheap quick fix. You cant go much more than 0.10" thick, and to reiterate, it reduces clearance of the tire to the strut body.

[LinxJinx]

While I agree negative camber is important, I rather like the 95's geometry. It was the main reason I chose to buy a 95 over a the 96-99's. This is why I am hesitant to perform the strut hat swap to gain negative camber. I'm also in the group the says max out caster.

My auto-x build is still in its infancy and right now it's more about refreshing the parts that I have with some mild upgrades to allow for better steering feel and stiffness. Vorshlag camber plates would be the best option, but since I have not yet finalized my strut combo and intend to switch to coilovers sometime in the future, I don't see myself spending the money on them since I need to buy the appropriate spring perch and strut style.

looks like I will probably deal with the lack of negative camber for the time being, possible using a shim to gain negative camber. Anyone else with a 95 M3 do anything different to address the negative camber issue? anyone have experience with the bimmerworld camber shim kit

[noahabel]

Dumb question: when asking for the numbers given here at the alignment shop, am I asking for those amounts PER WHEEL (i.e -2.5 degrees negative caster each) or total?

[Cyril Sneer]

Another possibly dumb question:

My ///M is 900 miles from home and I'm driving it back in a couple days. On the drive out, everything felt great, but since driving it around on the crappiest roads in the world it's started to show signs of loose bushings and the rest of the M3 suspension issues (pulling to the right on the gas, and loose feeling front end, mostly).

I'll refresh the suspension when I get it home, but I don't want to kill the tires any more than I have to on the way there. Thought I should get an alignment before leaving...

???:
So, knowing that I have loose suspension, what alignment settings should I be asking the shop for? Or should I just leave it until I do the refresh, and do the 900 miles as is?

TIA...

[douglee25]

Another possibly dumb question:

My ///M is 900 miles from home and I'm driving it back in a couple days. On the drive out, everything felt great, but since driving it around on the crappiest roads in the world it's started to show signs of loose bushings and the rest of the M3 suspension issues (pulling to the right on the gas, and loose feeling front end, mostly).

I'll refresh the suspension when I get it home, but I don't want to kill the tires any more than I have to on the way there. Thought I should get an alignment before leaving...

???:
So, knowing that I have loose suspension, what alignment settings should I be asking the shop for? Or should I just leave it until I do the refresh, and do the 900 miles as is?

TIA...

Leave it as is otherwise you're going to be spending the money twice. 900 miles isn't going to ruin a set of tires if the alignment is out.

Doug

[e dogg]

so, im a tad confused here- i run a completly stock (suspension-wise) 97 M sedan
do i need to shim or change parts to get -2.5 degrees camber in front or can i have them put these settings with my stock hardware?

"Front
Camber: -2.5 deg
Toe: 0

Rear
Camber: -1.5 to -2 deg
Toe: 0.20 total toe in"

[douglee25]

so, im a tad confused here- i run a completly stock (suspension-wise) 97 M sedan
do i need to shim or change parts to get -2.5 degrees camber in front or can i have them put these settings with my stock hardware?

"Front
Camber: -2.5 deg
Toe: 0

Rear
Camber: -1.5 to -2 deg
Toe: 0.20 total toe in"

Shim or swap strut hats from left to right.

Doug

[Johno]

Will plain old washers work for shims, or do I need something special?

Will shims interfere with stock wheels/tires? I have Konis and H&R sport spring up front.

Thanks,

JO

[joenationwide]

Will plain old washers work for shims, or do I need something special?

Will shims interfere with stock wheels/tires? I have Konis and H&R sport spring up front.

Thanks,

JO

Shims = washers . Same thing.

Shims shouldn't interfere with stock wheels/tires. You should be ok with stock type spring perches.

[e dogg]

do i shim all four or just one side of the strut mounts?

[douglee25]

do i shim all four or just one side of the strut mounts?

Spend the $25 and pick up this kit. It includes everything you need to gain the 2.5 degrees of camber.

www.bimmerworld.com
Search this in the search box - E36 Front Camber Shim Kit

Doug

[evandro]

First let me say thanks for compiling this thread, it is a really a very important piece of information!

I own a 1996 M3 3.2L (Euro spec, 321HP) that feels unstable with increasing speed (>80Mph) on motorway driving. It feels like a strong side wind is blowing and pushing the car to the left and then to the right and vice-versa. I have freshened ALL (I mean ALL) suspension bits, even upgraded to Eibach springs and H&R sway-bars (hard front, soft rear), got new stock shocs, and upgraded to 235/40/17 tyres at front, keeping 245/40/17 rear.
While all these mods improved the situation, the front still feels nervous as speed rises.
I run stock alignment specs. I fear that moving to more agressive specs will make the car all over the place at speed. I thought about replacing the steering rack (it does not show any slack but it is the only thing I didn't replace yet!), and then try yr recommended set-up.
What do you guys think about this?

Any help would be much appreciated.
Tia,
EO

[Nomade30]

when was the last time your shocks were replaced? I know my e30 felt like a dog on ice at higher speeds and over bumps but as soon i replaced the front shocks it was back to normal.

[evandro]

Hello! I replaced all 4 shocks about 6 months ago and at the same time I put Eibach Pro-kit lowering springs. By that time I also replaced front & rear top mounts, drop-links, bushes (installed Powerflex instead of OEMs), and replaced engine mounts (they were truly knackered). Still, on some roads more than others, the car changes direction at speed as if it has a mind of its own! And no, there are no strong winds outside!

As it has been said, stock alignment was determined as a safety compromise, so I assume that it must be the best alignment set up in terms of high speed stability! This car is German built so by design it must handle safely in the limit free high speed German Auto-Bahns!

EO