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Thread: The Definitive Alignment Guide for your E36 M3

  1. #51
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    think of caster kind of like a shopping cart wheel, the front ones that turn...

    you know how the wheel is mounted back a bit on a little arm? that is caster
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  2. #52
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    nice thread.

    alignmnet is one of those less glamourous items, but can have large impact on cars handling. I run nearly -2deg front camber on the street with a tiny amount of toe in. I found maximising castor to about 7deg helps with stability and is worth doing ,and as others have said it helps increase dynamic ve camber on the outside wheel when cornering which has been benificial to the outside edges of my tyres.

    Ive tried up to -3deg front camber, even with a tiny bit of toe out but it chops the insides of the tyres. ON the rears I run -1deg40min on the rears and a total of 2mm toe in (0.07873992" or 79thou - gawd i loathe imperial), and tire wear seems pretty neutral.

    PPL here recommend zero toe on the front. With zero toe, can i run a fraction more -ve camber (say just over 2)
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  3. #53
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    Hey guys I got my rear end toed in a bit because it was zero'd a few weeks before when I first got it aligned. The alignment machine was in degrees, not inches for toe. I had him toe it in an 1/8th of an inch, which in degrees is about .125, right? Rear camber also dropped to -1.7 from -2 and the front is -2.4 ish. Zero toe front. I think thats a pretty darn good alignment setup for just swapping 96+ strut hats from side to side and not having any adjustable arms/camber plates.
    Last edited by savage217; 05-15-2008 at 11:50 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by savage217 View Post
    Hey guys I got my rear end toed ina bit becuase it was zero'd before. The alignment machine was in degrees, not inches for toe. I had him toe it in what an 1/8th of an inch would be equivalent to in degrees, we came up with .125 degrees toes in. Rear camber also dropped to -1.7 and the front is -2.4 ish. Zero toe front. I think thats a pretty darn good alignment setup with no camber plates or rear adj arms.
    I used this when I had the same questions: http://ground-control.com/toe-out.htm

    Mike... aka Track Junkie
    '98.5 M3 Coupe Titan Silver

  5. #55
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    RRSperry is offline Senior Moment Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    It about .2 degrees for 1/8" , 1/16 is 1/2 that.. duh... Tire diameter for a 234-40 is about 24.4", a 245-40-17 is 24.7".

    For those that are math challanged,
    diameter= (section width*section height*2)/25.4mm/in+wheel diameter

    dia= (235*.4*2)/25.4+17= 24.4inches
    No matter where you go, there you are...

  6. #56
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    great info! as it turns out, this is pretty much what my local alignment guru (mark @ hubcap heaven in cary, nc) gave me for my car when i told him it was mostly a daily driver with the occasional auto-x/HPDE.

    1998 BMW///M3/4/5

  7. #57
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    Great info thanks a lot!

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by joenationwide View Post
    Glad you brought that up. Tramlining is actually more an effect of toe out. When you increase front camber (by swapping hats) you will also increase toe out. Have you checked your toe settings after swapping the hats?

    Great post, thanks for the research and effort, I only wish I found this b/f replacing my 95M upper strut mounts with 95 upper strut mounts.
    1995 M3 silver
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  9. #59
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    I thought this thread was parked?

  10. #60
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    OK, so I just had my alignment done with these as the actual numbers after they were done:

    Front:
    Camber: -2.6,-2.2
    Caster: 6.5,7.2
    Toe: -.01,.01

    Rear:
    Camber: -1.7,-1.8
    Toe: .19,.16
    Total Toe: .36

    The tech said if I didn't like the numbers, I can take it back (they charged $100). Is there any reason why the left and right numbers are so different? Should I take it back? I was shooting for the numbers in the original post. I have Vorshlag camber plates and the Vorshlag/AST coilovers. They claimed this was the best they could get it and also that 0 degrees toe would cause excessive tire wear.

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheM3Man View Post
    OK, so I just had my alignment done with these as the actual numbers after they were done:

    Front:
    Camber: -2.6,-2.2
    Caster: 6.5,7.2
    Toe: -.01,.01

    Rear:
    Camber: -1.7,-1.8
    Toe: .19,.16
    Total Toe: .36

    The tech said if I didn't like the numbers, I can take it back (they charged $100). Is there any reason why the left and right numbers are so different? Should I take it back? I was shooting for the numbers in the original post. I have Vorshlag camber plates and the Vorshlag/AST coilovers. They claimed this was the best they could get it and also that 0 degrees toe would cause excessive tire wear.
    Its my understanding that 0 toe would cause the least amount of tire wear. Also, maybe your frame isn't perfectly straight? And also depends on the mechanic too. If you know your frame is straight then its probably mechanic.

  12. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by m0digital View Post
    Its my understanding that 0 toe would cause the least amount of tire wear. Also, maybe your frame isn't perfectly straight? And also depends on the mechanic too. If you know your frame is straight then its probably mechanic.
    Yeah, I don't think the kid knew what he was talking about, he said that 0 toe was actually toed out, and I argued it was neutral.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheM3Man View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the kid knew what he was talking about, he said that 0 toe was actually toed out, and I argued it was neutral.
    He probably meant that it is neutral on the rack, but friction pushes it into slight toe out when driving. Worse with worn bushings.

  14. #64
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    joenationwide is offline Makes Cars Dance BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheM3Man View Post
    OK, so I just had my alignment done with these as the actual numbers after they were done:

    Front:
    Camber: -2.6,-2.2
    Caster: 6.5,7.2
    Toe: -.01,.01

    Rear:
    Camber: -1.7,-1.8
    Toe: .19,.16
    Total Toe: .36

    The tech said if I didn't like the numbers, I can take it back (they charged $100). Is there any reason why the left and right numbers are so different? Should I take it back? I was shooting for the numbers in the original post. I have Vorshlag camber plates and the Vorshlag/AST coilovers. They claimed this was the best they could get it and also that 0 degrees toe would cause excessive tire wear.
    Those numbers are not terrible. With the camber plates, he shouldn't have had too much problem getting the front camber to match L and R. If you were to go back, Id match them to -2.6. The rear camber will work well with that. The rear toe in is also a little high, might see some inner tire wear. I prefer 0.10 per side, or 0.20 total. Around 0.20 - 0.26 is good.

    How do you like those coilovers? Im starting to think they are the best single adjustables out there today.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanTheM3Man View Post
    Yeah, I don't think the kid knew what he was talking about, he said that 0 toe was actually toed out, and I argued it was neutral.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyril Sneer View Post
    He probably meant that it is neutral on the rack, but friction pushes it into slight toe out when driving. Worse with worn bushings.
    Exactly.

  15. #65
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    Front
    Camber: -2.5 deg
    Toe: 0

    Rear
    Camber: -1.5 to -2 deg
    Toe: 0.20 total toe in (IIRC this is 1/8" total toe in)



    I know this is for if you have camber plates....

    But what if you don't? Keep same specs minus the negative camber in front??

    Just dropped in some new billies, and need to get it aligned before I drive from TX to VA.

    "Don't run out of talent mid corner..."

  16. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by fehder View Post


    I know this is for if you have camber plates....

    But what if you don't? Keep same specs minus the negative camber in front??

    Just dropped in some new billies, and need to get it aligned before I drive from TX to VA.
    Swap hats?

  17. #67
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    No... as of now, entirely stock plus Bilstein sports all around.

    "Don't run out of talent mid corner..."

  18. #68
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    joenationwide is offline Makes Cars Dance BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by fehder View Post


    I know this is for if you have camber plates....

    But what if you don't? Keep same specs minus the negative camber in front??

    Just dropped in some new billies, and need to get it aligned before I drive from TX to VA.
    Since you have a 95 M3, you cant swap strut hats and get more camber. If it were me, I'd go find some washers to shim the lower strut mounts, so you'll at least have some decent camber up front (this is non-adjustable). Then I'd set the rears to -1.5 deg camber. If you decide not to shim the fronts, the -1.5 deg camber rear still applies.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by joenationwide View Post
    Those numbers are not terrible. With the camber plates, he shouldn't have had too much problem getting the front camber to match L and R. If you were to go back, Id match them to -2.6. The rear camber will work well with that. The rear toe in is also a little high, might see some inner tire wear. I prefer 0.10 per side, or 0.20 total. Around 0.20 - 0.26 is good.

    How do you like those coilovers? Im starting to think they are the best single adjustables out there today.





    Exactly.
    Alright, thanks for the advice, I'm going to see if they can give a second go at it, I mean for the price of the camber plates and how easy it is to adjust them, they should get them equal. I also don't think the kid knew what 1/8" toe in meant in the rear, so I'll use the decimals so he gets it right. It seems he was going by what the computer said and he was really leary as to why I didn't want the factory specs.

    The coilovers are excellent, no complaints. I'm running 550/650 spring rates and they are still smooth over bumps. It does get bumpy under 25 mph, but the handling is awesome, and I drive on backroads mostly anyways.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by joenationwide View Post
    Since you have a 95 M3, you cant swap strut hats and get more camber. If it were me, I'd go find some washers to shim the lower strut mounts, so you'll at least have some decent camber up front (this is non-adjustable). Then I'd set the rears to -1.5 deg camber. If you decide not to shim the fronts, the -1.5 deg camber rear still applies.

    Sounds good.

    Just keep adding washers until I get some negative camber up front? What's the max. amount of washers, before you're screwing with the threads ability to hold?

    "Don't run out of talent mid corner..."

  21. #71
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    and this is not sticky / parked because...

    bump for a great write up and some great info that needs to be kept around
    \\\Whitepower
    Previous: '95 M3, '99 M3 Cab

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by FingerTight View Post
    and this is not sticky / parked because...

    bump for a great write up and some great info that needs to be kept around
    The mods dont like too many threads parked at the top because of clutter. This thread is in the FAQ section along with all the others I believe, which is where all the good DIY's should be.

  23. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xiphos View Post
    The mods dont like too many threads parked at the top because of clutter. This thread is in the FAQ section along with all the others I believe, which is where all the good DIY's should be.
    Roger that, thanks for the clarification...now back to M3s with no mirrors and trips to NYC to make car buying a family experience...
    \\\Whitepower
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  24. #74
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    Where can I find these shims for the front lower struts to increase camber? What dimensions should I look for. Just looking for a cheap camber fix for my DD.

  25. #75
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    Great info in this thread.

    What about ride height ? How low can you go without compromising performance. I'm looking to raise my car, my tie rods are pointing to the sky.
    Current:
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    Titanium Silver E39 540i Touring M-Sport S62 6MT

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    Interlagos Blue E85 Z4 M Roadster 6MT
    Le Mans Blue E92 M3 6MT
    Japan Red E46 325i Touring S54 6MT
    Estoril Blue Individual E46 M3 Coupe 6MT
    Cosmos Black E36 M3 Coupe S54 6MT
    Alpine White E92 M3 6MT
    Alpine White E90 M3 6MT
    Laguna Seca Blue E46 M3 Coupe 6MT
    Jet Black E36 325is S52 5MT
    Lagoon Green E36 325is 5MT

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