think of caster kind of like a shopping cart wheel, the front ones that turn...
you know how the wheel is mounted back a bit on a little arm? that is caster
"Every BMW Begins Life As A Meticulously Engineered Blur"
nice thread.
alignmnet is one of those less glamourous items, but can have large impact on cars handling. I run nearly -2deg front camber on the street with a tiny amount of toe in. I found maximising castor to about 7deg helps with stability and is worth doing ,and as others have said it helps increase dynamic ve camber on the outside wheel when cornering which has been benificial to the outside edges of my tyres.
Ive tried up to -3deg front camber, even with a tiny bit of toe out but it chops the insides of the tyres. ON the rears I run -1deg40min on the rears and a total of 2mm toe in (0.07873992" or 79thou - gawd i loathe imperial), and tire wear seems pretty neutral.
PPL here recommend zero toe on the front. With zero toe, can i run a fraction more -ve camber (say just over 2)
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Hey guys I got my rear end toed in a bit because it was zero'd a few weeks before when I first got it aligned. The alignment machine was in degrees, not inches for toe. I had him toe it in an 1/8th of an inch, which in degrees is about .125, right? Rear camber also dropped to -1.7 from -2 and the front is -2.4 ish. Zero toe front. I think thats a pretty darn good alignment setup for just swapping 96+ strut hats from side to side and not having any adjustable arms/camber plates.
Last edited by savage217; 05-15-2008 at 11:50 PM.
I used this when I had the same questions: http://ground-control.com/toe-out.htm
Mike... aka Track Junkie
'98.5 M3 Coupe Titan Silver
It about .2 degrees for 1/8" , 1/16 is 1/2 that.. duh... Tire diameter for a 234-40 is about 24.4", a 245-40-17 is 24.7".
For those that are math challanged,
diameter= (section width*section height*2)/25.4mm/in+wheel diameter
dia= (235*.4*2)/25.4+17= 24.4inches
No matter where you go, there you are...
great info! as it turns out, this is pretty much what my local alignment guru (mark @ hubcap heaven in cary, nc) gave me for my car when i told him it was mostly a daily driver with the occasional auto-x/HPDE.
1998 BMW///M3/4/5
Great info thanks a lot!
1995 M3 silver
Auto to 5 speed manual conversion
Turner performance chip
Supersprint exhaust
vented rotors
ac schnitzer suspension kit
ASE master Tech
I thought this thread was parked?
OK, so I just had my alignment done with these as the actual numbers after they were done:
Front:
Camber: -2.6,-2.2
Caster: 6.5,7.2
Toe: -.01,.01
Rear:
Camber: -1.7,-1.8
Toe: .19,.16
Total Toe: .36
The tech said if I didn't like the numbers, I can take it back (they charged $100). Is there any reason why the left and right numbers are so different? Should I take it back? I was shooting for the numbers in the original post. I have Vorshlag camber plates and the Vorshlag/AST coilovers. They claimed this was the best they could get it and also that 0 degrees toe would cause excessive tire wear.
Those numbers are not terrible. With the camber plates, he shouldn't have had too much problem getting the front camber to match L and R. If you were to go back, Id match them to -2.6. The rear camber will work well with that. The rear toe in is also a little high, might see some inner tire wear. I prefer 0.10 per side, or 0.20 total. Around 0.20 - 0.26 is good.
How do you like those coilovers? Im starting to think they are the best single adjustables out there today.
Exactly.
Front
Camber: -2.5 deg
Toe: 0
Rear
Camber: -1.5 to -2 deg
Toe: 0.20 total toe in (IIRC this is 1/8" total toe in)
I know this is for if you have camber plates....
But what if you don't? Keep same specs minus the negative camber in front??
Just dropped in some new billies, and need to get it aligned before I drive from TX to VA.
"Don't run out of talent mid corner..."
No... as of now, entirely stock plus Bilstein sports all around.
"Don't run out of talent mid corner..."
Since you have a 95 M3, you cant swap strut hats and get more camber. If it were me, I'd go find some washers to shim the lower strut mounts, so you'll at least have some decent camber up front (this is non-adjustable). Then I'd set the rears to -1.5 deg camber. If you decide not to shim the fronts, the -1.5 deg camber rear still applies.
Alright, thanks for the advice, I'm going to see if they can give a second go at it, I mean for the price of the camber plates and how easy it is to adjust them, they should get them equal. I also don't think the kid knew what 1/8" toe in meant in the rear, so I'll use the decimals so he gets it right. It seems he was going by what the computer said and he was really leary as to why I didn't want the factory specs.
The coilovers are excellent, no complaints. I'm running 550/650 spring rates and they are still smooth over bumps. It does get bumpy under 25 mph, but the handling is awesome, and I drive on backroads mostly anyways.
and this is not sticky / parked because...
bump for a great write up and some great info that needs to be kept around
\\\Whitepower
Previous: '95 M3, '99 M3 Cab
Where can I find these shims for the front lower struts to increase camber? What dimensions should I look for. Just looking for a cheap camber fix for my DD.
Great info in this thread.
What about ride height ? How low can you go without compromising performance. I'm looking to raise my car, my tie rods are pointing to the sky.
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