Poly Control Arm Bushing Group Buy

[MattE21]

money sent.

[blitzed310]

Pfft whatever.

I guess Im in on the next round...

[melloh]

Again, thank you for for all the efforts. I think for your benefit, it would not tarnish your good samaritan status if you post something like "here is the price $_____. Donations welcome." We all know you're not in this for the money, but perhaps a few of us who will never be able to contribute back in a similar manner (ok, maybe it's just me) will have a chance to ease our (my) conscience a bit and not feel like we (I) are taking advantage of your generosity.

Just a thought.

H

[Marquinho]

Dinero has been sent!!!

[TheNeek]

Again, thank you for for all the efforts. I think for your benefit, it would not tarnish your good samaritan status if you post something like "here is the price . Donations welcome." We all know you're not in this for the money, but perhaps a few of us who will never be able to contribute back in a similar manner (ok, maybe it's just me) will have a chance to ease our (my) conscience a bit and not feel like we (I) are taking advantage of your generosity.

Just a thought.

H

I believe my samaritan status ends here.

[Marquinho]

Again, thank you for for all the efforts. I think for your benefit, it would not tarnish your good samaritan status if you post something like "here is the price . Donations welcome." We all know you're not in this for the money, but perhaps a few of us who will never be able to contribute back in a similar manner (ok, maybe it's just me) will have a chance to ease our (my) conscience a bit and not feel like we (I) are taking advantage of your generosity.

Just a thought.

H

Not quite sure I really understand the comment, but I think it is intended to be positive to Nick's gesture towards the community (making the bushings and selling at cost), isn't it?

[melloh]

Yes. it was. I'm a bit of a spaz and sctterbrained for the next month or so. been getting about 3-5 hrs of sleep a night for the last few weeks doing projects and research. My bad! Apologies to all.

[TheNeek]

Materials were just ordered. Cost was 205.96 without shipping. Those folks that can do math will realize that this is more than what I quoted in the thread. I wasn't sure if I had a 7/8th drill bit which is required for the build. We don't... so I bought one. No big deal. I've been getting a ton of PM traffic about what happens next. So here's the skinny.


This is the prototype phase. I will be making more of these bushings, but sadly, not at this price. The people that gave me money upfront are my guinea pigs. Bushings will be sent out and we will see if they fit. Putting quite a bit of trust in me, which is nice.

The subsequent builds of these parts will not be at this cost. I will be charging for my time and effort. Sorry if this turns some of you off on purchasing the set. So, looking into the future I will not be collecting money upfront (it was a pain in the butt to organize all this). I will be buying the materials, cutting the parts, checking them for proper dimensions and then I will be offering the sets, up for sale. Just taking a quick swag at final cost, I think I would need 20 to 30 dollars a set. This is not my job, and it will be done in my spare time, so I have to charge something. (I can only be a nice guy for so long).

The possibility of my running parts out of a harder material exist as well. The 95A that these first parts will be made out of is not the hardest poly we can get. 75D is available (I know the number is smaller, but trust me, it's harder). I could also make some out of delrin, or out of billet aluminum if you're crazy.

I really do appreciate everyone's patience and I do apologize if you weren't able to get in on this first run at the all time low low price. Hopefully the added cost due to the R&D and machining time will not turn you off too much.

[rrhodes2007]

Materials were just ordered. Cost was 205.96 without shipping. Those folks that can do math will realize that this is more than what I quoted in the thread. I wasn't sure if I had a 7/8th drill bit which is required for the build. We don't... so I bought one. No big deal. I've been getting a ton of PM traffic about what happens next. So here's the skinny.


This is the prototype phase. I will be making more of these bushings, but sadly, not at this price. The people that gave me money upfront are my guinea pigs. Bushings will be sent out and we will see if they fit. Putting quite a bit of trust in me, which is nice.

The subsequent builds of these parts will not be at this cost. I will be charging for my time and effort. Sorry if this turns some of you off on purchasing the set. So, looking into the future I will not be collecting money upfront (it was a pain in the butt to organize all this). I will be buying the materials, cutting the parts, checking them for proper dimensions and then I will be offering the sets, up for sale. Just taking a quick swag at final cost, I think I would need 20 to 30 dollars a set. This is not my job, and it will be done in my spare time, so I have to charge something. (I can only be a nice guy for so long).

The possibility of my running parts out of a harder material exist as well. The 95A that these first parts will be made out of is not the hardest poly we can get. 75D is available (I know the number is smaller, but trust me, it's harder). I could also make some out of delrin, or out of billet aluminum if you're crazy.

I really do appreciate everyone's patience and I do apologize if you weren't able to get in on this first run at the all time low low price. Hopefully the added cost due to the R&D and machining time will not turn you off too much.

I think that is totally and completely fair. Time is money and I'm very sure that I don't just speak for myself when I say that all those who will benifit now or in the future from these bushings will be very grateful

Thanks for steppin up.

Rob

[BruceH]

This is not my job, and it will be done in my spare time, so I have to charge something. (I can only be a nice guy for so long)

I have no problems with a profit. Charge what you need for materials and your time. Happy to pay it. Let me know when I come up.

[goinstrong]

I am in for a set if still available. My right one just went out today and it was unnerving! Thanks...

Tim

[extra chrispy]

No problem, Nick. Charge what you think is fair, its not as if there are a lot of options available.

[TheNeek]

No problem, Nick. Charge what you think is fair, its not as if there are a lot of options available.

Well I'm not going to commit highway robbery for some poly bushings.

[TheNeek]

Last night I got into the machine shop to start cutting some Poly. I learned a whole bunch about how to properly cut that stuff. I had one set back with the bandsaw, which forced me to scrap a few inches of material. So I'm ordering some extra just so I can complete the orders. Josh called me and we chatted for a while, I was hoping to get 4 bushing halves done, but I didn't make it. So I'll shoot to get them done today so he can test fit, then I'll finish up the others. I figured out how to get a better surface finish than what is shown below. Thanks for your patience guys. All the sleeves are cut. I put a 45° chamfer on the ID of the sleeves so it doesn't chinger up your swaybar threads. The poly is REALLY tight over the sleeve, so as long as the poly fits tight in Josh's control arm we're in business. Thanks again for letting me do this for you guys and for your patience. Stay tuned.

[blitzed310]

you said chinger

Aye Chingon!

[TheNeek]

Would anyone be opposed to trying the harder poly material?

[blitzed310]

Would anyone be opposed to trying the harder poly material?

I would not, the 323i will see plenty of track time.

[TheNeek]

I would not, the 323i will see plenty of track time.

Could it ever be too hard though? I'm curious if slop in that joint is required at all? Would the bushing bind during it's travel on a stock suspension?


I just thought about how there is only 1 non-machined surface on these poly pieces. I think these are gonna be sweet.

[blitzed310]

Could it ever be too hard though? I'm curious if slop in that joint is required at all? Would the bushing bind during it's travel on a stock suspension?


I just thought about how there is only 1 non-machined surface on these poly pieces. I think these are gonna be sweet.

Your the ME, you tell me. Ask me something about Beam deflection or yielding, concrete strength component stress...

[BoostedE21]

I thought we had discovered that you have the pre 78 control arms... which these bushings won't fit?

Oh yeah, i guess i was jumping ahead of myself

[jrcook320]

I have the front suspension mostly drawn up in cad right now for several reasons, but mostly to see how much bump steer I'm going to get by relocating the control arms, and also to see how much the end of the sway bar will be raised.

I can see how much angle the sway bar induces through it's swing arc on the CAB. It should be minimal, and what angle change there is will easily be accomodated by deflection of the softer inner pivot bushing and the ball joint.

I don't think a harder material will be a problem. I've heard of guys running delrin, kevlar, and aluminum.

[jrcook320]

By the way Nick, I just want to say thanks for doing this for all of us. Sure, I designed em up, but without a machinist the project would have been dead in the water.

[TKO383]

Just a thought I'll throw out.

The stock setup has the stock rubber bushings in the control arms and sway bar mounts to absorb shock and fore and aft movement. Placing solid or near solid bushings in the control arms then makes the sway bar bushings the weakest link. I dont think that it would be a problem as long as poly bushings are used and the mounts are solid. Are these cars reinforced in this area?

Also Josh and I have already discussed possible binding caused by near solid bushings in the front control arms. If you're looking at the side of the car, right in the front hub, focus on the point where the sway bar is inserted in the control arm. As the control arm moves up, the sway bar must swing up. With a solid bushing, the sway bar can't swing freely to allow free movement of the control arm. It will be like sticking your finger all the way into a small hole and trying to lift your hand straight up and down. My fear is that this could cause binding as the wheel travels vertically. This binding could cause sharply increased non linear roll stiffness and spring rate in the front suspension. Just throwing some things out there for discussion. I'll be the outside the box thinker because I'm not as familiar with these cars as the rest of you.

[jrcook320]

Shouldn't you be on 3rdgen.org or some other mullet wagon forum? ok, ok. welcome to bimmerforums I guess... lol

Yes, too stiff on all points could cause binding. Similar to the rear suspension roll stiffness/bind you had with boxed control arms and poly bushings. You either needed to have stock rubber bushings or unboxed arms to allow them to twist so the axle could roll.

In this case, the control arm needs to be able to swing along the arc of the sway bar. Even if the control arm to sway bar bushing were solid, I think it will be able to do this ok since the stock inner pivot bushing is soft enough to allow the control arm to swing up and forward and change angles with the sway bar. Keep in mind the swing radius is large enough that the position and angle change will be minimal, especially for the amount of suspension travel you get on a lowered e21. If I get more than 2" of suspension deflection I have a problem.

[TKO383]

you've just made a great point. I completely forgot about the inner bushing where the control arm meets the subframe being able to absorb the twist. That will still increase stiffness, but it should be in a constant linear form as long as your suspension doesnt travel far enough to actually bind the bushing. If the suspension travel remains such that the bushing can just deflect a bit you'll be fine. Obviously if your suspension travels too far the resistance to rotation will increase to the point that your spring rate will increas exponentially. However I highly doubt you will have a problem. Shopping carts at Wal-mart have more suspension travel than you do.

I love the mullet comments, but I can't take them laying down..... Do these guys know that you haven't beaten my 3400lb mullet wagon at Auto-x yet? 500lbsft for the win.