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Thread: Replacing brake booster - HELP!

  1. #176
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    Ah man, that's a bummer. Oh well, i guess i should have a scan tool anyway.
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

  2. #177
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    And....when I took it to the bmw dealer, they said they had a hard time reading the ABS computer. Then they handed me what looked like a generic flow chart of how to fix ABS issues, and said, 'this is what our computer found", which was nothing. So, I'm not sure ANYONE can read mine. lol.

  3. #178
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    As soon as I get my bleed line finished (should be soon, buddy coming over next week to help finalize the design work) I'll try running the special tests with INPA and my 20 pin serial connector.

  4. #179
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    As soon as I get my bleed line finished (should be soon, buddy coming over next week to help finalize the design work) I'll try running the special tests with INPA and my 20 pin serial connector.
    Guess I'm going to want to find out about INPA!

    I see plenty of INPA software/cable kits for sale on eBay (https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-BMW-K-D...-/122883882024).

    What can you tell us about this option?

    Neil

  5. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Guess I'm going to want to find out about INPA!

    I see plenty of INPA software/cable kits for sale on eBay

    What can you tell us about this option?
    So, there might be other 20 pin interfaces that work for this, but when I was looking to recode my KOMBI in the cluster to remove the dead zone from our OEM temp gauges the only way to reach all of the modules was by using a true ADS interface that connected to a laptop with a serial port.

    That meant finding a "decent" laptop on ebay and a true ADS interface. I ended up going with a Dell Latitude D830 for $90 and then the tiny ADS connector from OpenLabs for $60. Then I needed to get the old INPA (and some other stuff to actually code the modules, but that's outside the scope of this thread) which was so gracefully hosted by 328 Power 04 on this google drive HERE.

    Instructions for getting this up and running are in this post HERE.

    Alternatively, if you're comfortable spending the money (I am a cheapskate) you can get a legit ICOM tool which will connect flawlessly without a bunch of software and hardware drama and let you do everything you want. Code modules, INPA/EDIABAS, read DME fault codes - whatever.

    I thought all of this stuff was old hat at this point, since the platform is over 20+ years old.


  6. #181
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    I thought all of this stuff was old hat at this point, since the platform is over 20+ years old.

    That's probably so, but it's not the same hat I've been wearing!

    Thanks for the info though. Now the question is whether the full ADS version is really needed for what should be routine ABS test/maintenance, or would the USB version be good enough? I'm so not planning a deep dive into BMW's code.

    Neil

  7. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    would the USB version be good enough? I'm so not planning a deep dive into BMW's code.
    Well, I learned that when you go from 20 pins to 4 or whatever with USB, a lot of those streams of data get lost (unlike OBDII port -> USB) which makes it untenable for use on such an old platform.

    I have an OBDII to USB interface as well as a 20 pin to OBDII adapter sitting in my garage for that very reason. It never seemed to work, but I don't recall if I ever tried it for only INPA specifically.......

    I'm talking about these:




  8. #183
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    My garage laptop doesn't have a serial port, so using the more powerful INPA ADS interface would mean sourcing a used older model as you did. I'm going to have a look round at the office to see if we have any decommissioned PC laptops that might suit. That near $500 ICOM plug and play tool is nice, but way pricey for personal use.

    Meanwhile, since it's cheap, I've ordered a $45 INPA/USB-to-OBD2 (plus adapter for 20-pin diagnostic port) package from eBay. We'll see what it turns out to be able to do...and/or what I turn out to be able to do with it!

    Neil

  9. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    My garage laptop doesn't have a serial port, so using the more powerful INPA ADS interface would mean sourcing a used older model as you did. I'm going to have a look round at the office to see if we have any decommissioned PC laptops that might suit. That near $500 ICOM plug and play tool is nice, but way pricey for personal use.

    Meanwhile, since it's cheap, I've ordered a $45 INPA/USB-to-OBD2 (plus adapter for 20-pin diagnostic port) package from eBay. We'll see what it turns out to be able to do...and/or what I turn out to be able to do with it!

    Neil
    You don't need a serial port ... USB adapters work just fine, I use one on my Dell laptop (even though it has a serial port). And I have the ADS adapter, works fine for e36. However, I have nto tries to talk to ABS since we don't have it anymore.
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  10. #185
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    Good to know. In for Neil's results.

  11. #186
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Meanwhile, here's my spare ABS pump with a length of -3 hose and its swaged on 10mm banjo fitting that bolts right up to the bleed nipple port without any modification:

    ABS-pump-sm.jpg

    This should make an effective remote bleeder setup for the ABS pump. The banjo fitting allows the hose to be directed upward and in whatever fore/aft orientation works best. The other end of the hose will have a bulkhead mount bleed nipple fitting installed on it:



    See: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=5207

    The bulkhead mount (external thread) configuration allows it to be through-mounted to a bracket that I'll need to fab up. That'll either be attached to the strut tower sheet metal or to some other convenient location in the general area. At that point I'll be able determine the proper length to cut the hose and will install the bleed fitting to it. That will have to wait until I'm ready to drain and take off the brake fluid reservoir again to get to the ABS pump.

    Oh I do so love splashing brake fluid around...

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-14-2018 at 04:17 PM.

  12. #187
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    Fancy! Very nice, too.

    This set-up we're doing will be considerably less expensive but 100% functional.

    The original ABS thread is here if you want to add your post there as well.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...Bleeder-Nipple


  13. #188
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    You don't need a serial port ... USB adapters work just fine, I use one on my Dell laptop (even though it has a serial port). And I have the ADS adapter, works fine for e36. However, I have not tried to talk to ABS since we don't have it anymore. [Emphasis added]
    And there's the rub. Other info I've found says that the USB channel won't talk to the ABS controller.

    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    Fancy! Very nice, too.

    This set-up we're doing will be considerably less expensive but 100% functional.

    The original ABS thread is here if you want to add your post there as well.

    https://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/s...Bleeder-Nipple

    Crap, I'd forgotten about the other thread, which has been dormant for a few weeks. Thanks for the nudge — I'll cross-post my info there.

    My objective was to use readily available, off-the-shelf race car plumbing parts that would need a minimum of subsequent alteration or fabrication. The 3-AN hose also allows for flexibility in routing and mounting of the bleeder end. Other than connecting the banjo fitting to the ABS pump, the only work required is assembling the bleeder end to the hose and coming up with a mounting bracket.

    Total parts cost from Pegasus is $55.10 (plus shipping) per installation. Note that for this high pressure application only steel fittings must be used.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-15-2018 at 05:10 PM.

  14. #189
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Meanwhile, since it's cheap, I've ordered a $45 INPA/USB-to-OBD2 (plus adapter for 20-pin diagnostic port) package from eBay. We'll see what it turns out to be able to do...and/or what I turn out to be able to do with it!

    Neil
    This INPA package arrived on Saturday (https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-BMW-K-D...gAAOSwCpRbGt00).

    I installed the software today and gave INPA a try for the first time. On my low end Lenovo garage laptop running Win10 this was fairly straightforward by Windows standards, only requiring rerunning the Install Wizard a couple of times to get everything completed. You do have to manually reconfigure the USB port you're going to use, but that's included in the instructions.

    Connected it up to my 96 M3 via the round diagnostic port. The car was recognized, although oddly enough there's no option under E36 for the 96-99 S52 with OBD2, despite these having been the vast majority of E36 M3 production for the US market. Instead I chose the 328i w/OBD2, which is near enough the same thing and seemed to work. I was able check for engine and emissions fault codes just fine, but none of the ABS options under the Chassis category worked at all. Neither did, as a test, accessing the instrument cluster under the Body category. Pretty much what I had expected, unfortunately.

    Now I need to scare up an old laptop with an RS232 serial port to use with INPA's ADS interface, which reportedly can access the full range of controllers, including ABS. I already have the requisite Tiny ADS adapter on the way:

    See https://openlabs.co/store/Tiny-ADS-I...-pin-connector.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-18-2018 at 03:22 PM.

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    The car was recognized, although oddly enough there's no option under E36 for the 96-99 S52 with OBD2, despite these having been the vast majority of E36 M3 production for the US market.
    This wasn't an option:


  16. #191
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    This wasn't an option:

    Yeah, sorry, described the selection improperly (memory...). But M52 US w/OBD2 is the US 328.
    I would expect 96 and later M3 to be shown as S52 US with OBD2, but it isn't.

    I'm not sure why it asks the user to make that identification in the first place. Shouldn't it be able to
    make that determination automatically?

    Conclusion is unchanged: ADS and therefore PC with RS232 serial port is needed to access ABS.

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-18-2018 at 04:38 PM.

  17. #192
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    One would think.

    I've always used MS41.1 without issue.


  18. #193
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Meanwhile, here's my spare ABS pump with a length of -3 hose and its swaged on 10mm banjo fitting that bolts right up to the bleed nipple port without any modification:

    ABS-pump-sm.jpg

    This should make an effective remote bleeder setup for the ABS pump. The banjo fitting allows the hose to be directed upward and in whatever fore/aft orientation works best. The other end of the hose will have a bulkhead mount bleed nipple fitting installed on it:



    See: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr...asp?RecID=5207

    The bulkhead mount (external thread) configuration allows it to be through-mounted to a bracket that I'll need to fab up. That'll either be attached to the strut tower sheet metal or to some other convenient location in the general area. At that point I'll be able determine the proper length to cut the hose and will install the bleed fitting to it. That will have to wait until I'm ready to drain and take off the brake fluid reservoir again to get to the ABS pump.

    Oh I do so love splashing brake fluid around...

    Neil
    This is a slick idea. How long is the banjo bolt? Can you post a parts list? I'll do this when i do the brake booster.

    EDIT:
    Maybe a suitable AN-3 to 10mm banjo adapter: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/productdetails.asp?RecID=4199

    Better yet, premade AN-3 to 10mm banjo brake hose: https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/pr....asp?Product=3
    Last edited by TXBDan; 06-22-2018 at 03:05 PM.
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

  19. #194
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Conclusion is unchanged: ADS and therefore PC with RS232 serial port is needed to access ABS.

    Neil
    Incorrect. You an get the round plug to OBD2 adapter, and your USB cable will work fine. I have something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-BMW-INP...-/291441970113
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  20. #195
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    Incorrect. You an get the round plug to OBD2 adapter, and your USB cable will work fine. I have something like this: https://www.ebay.com/itm/For-BMW-INP...-/291441970113
    Nope. I have tested the round to OBD2 connector via USB and it works only for the limited subset of E36 controllers, definitely not including ABS. This is consistent with the experience of others going back several years. Nothing would please me more than for it to be proven otherwise, but for full INPA capability you do need to run the ADS protocol from a native RS232 serial port no PCMCIA adapters, no USB converters.

    Neil

  21. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Nope. I have tested the round to OBD2 connector via USB and it works only for the limited subset of E36 controllers, definitely not including ABS. This is consistent with the experience of others going back several years. Nothing would please me more than for it to be proven otherwise, but for full INPA capability you do need to run the ADS protocol from a native RS232 serial port – no PCMCIA adapters, no USB converters.

    Neil
    Sucks. Wanna buy my dell?
    Check out the 8legs Racing page: https://www.facebook.com/8legsRacing/


  22. #197
    NeilM is online now Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotcH View Post
    Sucks. Wanna buy my dell?
    Picked up a refurb Dell E5500 on eBay last week for $150. Now I'll have two garage PCs. :-(

    Edit: And it arrived today. Now I'm just waiting for the serial port to car cable from OpenLabs.

    There seems to be an established demand for older laptops with serial ports for just this kind of thing — who knew?

    Neil
    Last edited by NeilM; 06-25-2018 at 05:12 PM.

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