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Thread: Replacing brake booster - HELP!

  1. #101
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    looks like that site raised the price by 37 euros now.

  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by hc1001 View Post
    looks like that site raised the price by 37 euros now.
    Email them to get correct pricing.

  3. #103
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    Very curious to see how that booster works.

  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crustashio View Post
    Very curious to see how that booster works.
    Which one?

  5. #105
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    I ordered the ATE booster from Meca-Trouve yesterday, although not without difficulty.

    I speak French, so that wasn't the problem, but had difficulty with the payment part. Clicking on the PayPal option, which I'd have preferred for security reasons, did nothing at all, so I selected credit card instead. That got bounced by my card issuer for security reasons, no big surprise when making a foreign purchase. I called them and had the card hold cleared, but it still didn't work, and after trying a couple more times I got locked out of the Meca-Trouve site for too many attempts. That cleared itself by the next day, but the charge still wouldn't be accepted by my card issuer.

    After going up a couple of levels with the card people I finally got to someone who could monitor the transaction in real time while I attempted to submit the payment on the vendor site. Turns out that Meca-Trouve's payment system wasn't passing on the CVC number (code on the back), although their on-screen form was collecting it. Without a CVC the charge is always going to bounce. After a lengthy interrogation to verify my own bona fides the card people allowed the charge to pass.

    I don't know whether this was something particular to my card, or to Visa cards in general, or whatever, but now you know.

    It occurred to me that Meca-Trouve might also be a good source for the E36 M3 master cylinder, which is also NLA in the USA. However I have another, and very good, source for original Euro/NLA parts: e-acca.com in Latvia. They have good service and quick and reasonably priced delivery via FedEx. Just for sh!ts and grins I looked up the E36 M3 master cylinder P/N 34312227466, which is now NLA here. They have it for $558.05 plus shipping, which is about what it used to cost here as a BMW part number when still available.

    However I also happen to have a used one in the original box with the ATE part number (10.6125-0167.3), so I looked that up on Meca-Trouve. Here's the result: https://www.mecatrouve.com/search?q=10.6125-0167.3.

    Holy merde! That's only 40.53 euro (tax free for export), or less than $49, plus shipping. Both the picture and description look right. Assuming they haven't forgotten a leading digit in the price, that would be very attractive for anyone interested in rejuvenating their E36 M3 braking system.

    Neil

  6. #106
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    Hmm, might have to buy one just to have it as a spare.

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    I ordered the ATE booster from Meca-Trouve yesterday, although not without difficulty.


    I speak French, so that wasn't the problem, but had difficulty with the payment part. Clicking on the PayPal option, which I'd have preferred for security reasons, did nothing at all, so I selected credit card instead. That got bounced by my card issuer for security reasons, no big surprise when making a foreign purchase. I called them and had the card hold cleared, but it still didn't work, and after trying a couple more times I got locked out of the Meca-Trouve site for too many attempts. That cleared itself by the next day, but the charge still wouldn't be accepted by my card issuer.


    After going up a couple of levels with the card people I finally got to someone who could monitor the transaction in real time while I attempted to submit the payment on the vendor site. Turns out that Meca-Trouve's payment system wasn't passing on the CVC number (code on the back), although their on-screen form was collecting it. Without a CVC the charge is always going to bounce. After a lengthy interrogation to verify my own bona fides the card people allowed the charge to pass.


    I don't know whether this was something particular to my card, or to Visa cards in general, or whatever, but now you know.


    It occurred to me that Meca-Trouve might also be a good source for the E36 M3 master cylinder, which is also NLA in the USA. However I have another, and very good, source for original Euro/NLA parts: e-acca.com in Latvia. They have good service and quick and reasonably priced delivery via FedEx. Just for sh!ts and grins I looked up the E36 M3 master cylinder P/N 34312227466, which is now NLA here. They have it for $558.05 plus shipping, which is about what it used to cost here as a BMW part number when still available.


    However I also happen to have a used one in the original box with the ATE part number (10.6125-0167.3), so I looked that up on Meca-Trouve. Here's the result: https://www.mecatrouve.com/search?q=10.6125-0167.3.

    Damn! What a headache. So, when I placed my order the first time my CC company blocked it and then sent me a text to verify. I cleared it, then used my other CC without issue. Strange.


    Thanks for the tip on e-acca, I'll have to save that.


    Quote Originally Posted by NeilM View Post
    Holy merde! That's only 40.53 euro (tax free for export), or less than $49, plus shipping. Both the picture and description look right. Assuming they haven't forgotten a leading digit in the price, that would be very attractive for anyone interested in rejuvenating their E36 M3 braking system.


    Neil

    I saw that as well.


    So, I looked at all the stuff made in the Netherlands by A.B.S. and the parts seem dubious. I'm very reluctant to buy anything at that price point and put it in my car - especially a piece of safety equipment.


    I trust ATE and TRW for critical components. In the end I found that eEuroParts still has some TRW brake master cylinders in stock that are NOS even though that part has been discontinued. I actually picked one up on Thanksgiving as part of their Black Friday deal.


    In the end with shipping it was still $430.


  8. #108
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    So, I looked at all the stuff made in the Netherlands by A.B.S. and the parts seem dubious. I'm very reluctant to buy anything at that price point and put it in my car - especially a piece of safety equipment.
    I confess to some puckering in my nether regions at the thought of entrusting my braking to the apparent lowest of the low bidders. On the other hand anecdote suggests that our ATE M/C isn't exactly the nec plus ultra of durability, and $500 is a crazy-ass price for an entirely conventional M/C manufactured in volume for years. For comparison, a C7 Corvette M/C by AC Delco runs $150 (http://www.mamotorworks.com/Corvette...-2016-655324-1). Yeah, I know because Germany!

    Neil

  9. #109
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    I found that the E9x M3 brake master cylinders are cheaper when compared to the E36M ones. I suspect it's due to the dwindling supply of new E36 ones.

    There are also less companies making them now, which contributes to the problem.

    ATE isn't incredible, but it at least meets OEM quality?

  10. #110
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    I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that these basic braking components, for a car made in volume, are NLA.
    '98 M3 track whore
    '08 Lexus GX470 Daily driver/Ski Machine/Tow Pig
    '15 KTM 1190 Adventure Beastly 2 wheeler

  11. #111
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    What are the symptoms of a failing booster?

  12. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by DocWyte View Post
    I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the fact that these basic braking components, for a car made in volume, are NLA.
    No shit. Well, some of the parts are available but the booster with the correct provisions isn't.

    Like you can order an OEM master cylinder but it takes 2-4 weeks and it comes with BMW tax.

    Quote Originally Posted by pbonsalb View Post
    What are the symptoms of a failing booster?
    Hard pedal typically since it's no longer assisting as it's turned your brake system into manual brakes.

    Here's how to test it:


    1. With the engine not running, press and depress the brake pedal several times to remove any vacuum from inside the booster.
    2. On the last push of the brake pedal, hold moderate pressure on the brake pedal. Don’t push like you are panic stopping, simply hold pressure like you are sitting at a red light.
    3. Start the engine and pay attention to what happens to the brake pedal.
    4. If the pedal drops slightly, then the booster is working correctly.
    5. If the pedal does not move at all, then there is a very good chance the booster is bad.
    Last edited by golgo13; 12-01-2017 at 01:26 PM.

  13. #113
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    Also, before I forget this guy was selling an OEM ATE brake master cylinder for a reasonable price on eBay, but I missed out on it.

    I messaged him asking if he had another one and he sent me this link to his website:

    http://www.rogerstii.com/bmw-e36-m3-...ster-cylinder/

    Looks like he also put it back on eBay for $50 more than on his website:

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/263354478052

    Just sharing this with the community since I've already ordered a TRW one...

  14. #114
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    So, to follow-up with this I had a fellow gearhead friend come over to help me sanity check my brakes last weekend.

    In the end we tried several things and decided to swap out the booster even though it passed all the tests they tell you to try online to see if your booster is failing.

    It looks like the article written by eEuroParts that talks about the brake booster is spot on. Over time your booster does wear out, which leads to soft, spongy/squishy brakes with low pedal engagement.

    Working as a team we were able to swap everything out and bleed the brakes so we could to a test drive in about four hours or so.

    The OEM service manual tells you to remove the ABS pump - fuck that noise! We were able to scoot it back 1.5" to get the clearance we needed to remove the booster.My brakes might still have some air trapped in the ABS system (I'm looking into this) but the booster was the culprit.

    Incredible improvement now, the car stops like you would expect when you hit the brakes. The top of the pedal is a tiny but squishy, but once you get past that the car stops on its nose.

    At this point the only thing left in my ENTIRE brake system that hasn't been replaced or refreshed is the ABS pump and the hard lines. There simply wasn't any remaining variables that can account for what I was seeing.I won't even get into the caliper flex at this point...Good luck!
    Last edited by golgo13; 01-24-2018 at 09:58 PM. Reason: formatting

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    My brakes might still have some air trapped in the ABS system (I'm looking into this) but the booster was the culprit. Incredible improvement now, the car stops like you would expect when you hit the brakes. The top of the pedal is a tiny but squishy, but once you get past that the car stops on its nose.
    I've successfully bled the ABS 2 different ways in the past. #1, and most fun is to go for a drive and when safely able to do so (nobody tailgating) just mash the brake pedal as hard and fast as you can. You "need" to activate the ABS pump. Method #2 which is a lot more safe and easier but not as fun is to just bridge the ABS pump relay.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by jakermac View Post
    I've successfully bled the ABS 2 different ways in the past. #1, and most fun is to go for a drive and when safely able to do so (nobody tailgating) just mash the brake pedal as hard and fast as you can. You "need" to activate the ABS pump. Method #2 which is a lot more safe
    and easier but not as fun is to just bridge the ABS pump relay.
    Thanks for the tips

    #2 doesn't open the intake and exhaust solenoids so you're basically just having the pump try and push fluid against a closed valve. You actually have to use DIS or Rheingold software like the dealership to do it properly.

  17. #117
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    Just curious - how does a dealer hook into the ABS on an E36, via the diagnostic plug? (my 95 M3 doesnt have one anymore d/t S54 swap - might have to add back in at some point). Im replacing everything - booster, M/C, etc so looking like Ill have to do #1 a few times to get it all bled for now.

  18. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    #2 doesn't open the intake and exhaust solenoids so you're basically just having the pump try and push fluid against a closed valve. You actually have to use DIS or Rheingold software like the dealership to do it properly.
    Good point. Hadn't though of that. Guess I just got lucky when I did it that way.

    another way to do #1 without so much big drama is to do the braking on wet grass. Instant ice mode, but the ABS should be cycling away like a fiend (if I'm not mistaken).

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGrant951 View Post
    Just curious - how does a dealer hook into the ABS on an E36, via the diagnostic plug? (my 95 M3 doesnt have one anymore d/t S54 swap - might have to add back in at some point). Im replacing everything - booster, M/C, etc so looking like Ill have to do #1 a few times to get it all bled for now.
    Hey dude,

    I believe they use a 20 pin interface since that's the only way to properly access ADS AFAIK. I should just ask my buddy, he's a BMW tech...

  20. #120
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    Gotcha- I have the S54 ODB2 plug and INPA but Im guessing thats only going to let me communicate/monitor the engine itself.

    Damn MecaTrouve is charging me $100 euro to ship it. ($180 euro for the part), US total $346...guess they are getting sick of shipping to the US

    Took me a few times to complete payment, once I got VISA on the phone it went right through.
    Last edited by SamGrant951; 01-24-2018 at 11:29 AM.

  21. #121
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    Quote Originally Posted by SamGrant951 View Post
    Damn MecaTrouve is charging me $100 euro to ship it. ($180 euro for the part), US total $346...guess they are getting sick of shipping to the US
    That sounds about right. That price with shipping is still cheaper than OEM via a dealership though (if they still had the part)

  22. #122
    NeilM is offline Member BMW E36 M3 Expert
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    Quote Originally Posted by golgo13 View Post
    So, to follow-up with this I had a fellow gearhead friend come over to help me sanity check my brakes last weekend.

    In the end we tried several things and decided to swap out the booster even though it passed all the tests they tell you to try online to see if your booster is failing.

    It looks like the article written by eEuroParts that talks about the brake booster is spot on. Over time your booster does wear out, which leads to soft, spongy/squishy brakes with low pedal engagement.

    Working as a team we were able to swap everything out and bleed the brakes so we could to a test drive in about four hours or so.

    The OEM service manual tells you to remove the ABS pump - forget that noise! We were able to scoot it back 1.5" to get the clearance we needed to remove the booster.

    My brakes might still have some air trapped in the ABS system (I'm looking into this) but the booster was the culprit. Incredible improvement now, the car stops like you would expect when you hit the brakes. The top of the pedal is a tiny but squishy, but once you get past that the car stops on its nose.

    At this point the only thing left in my ENTIRE brake system that hasn't been replaced or refreshed is the ABS pump and the hard lines. There simply wasn't any remaining variables that can account for what I was seeing.
    I've been vaguely chasing the soft/sinking pedal issue for maybe 15 years. Figured it's the classic master cylinder leakdown failure, bought a new one — no difference. Considered internal leakage in the ABS pump and acquired a spare cheaply from a youthful wrecked car (back in the 90's...any wrecked E36 was youthful then!) but never installed it because it seemed too unlikely and a PITA to do.

    You kind of learn to drive around the issue: a quick double-tap on the pedal to set the brakes as the braking zone approaches, and you're good. But to this day if I have to stop for a traffic light on a hill the pedal will sink to the floor before the light goes green and I have to release and quickly depress the pedal again. Somehow that doesn't seem right with my StopTechs.

    I can't think of a single mechanically credible reason why installing a new booster would fix the issue, yet there are perfectly good reports, of which yours is only the most recent, that it does just that. Which is why I bought one from Meca-Trouve, and come hell or high water I'm going to install that mother when my car comes out of winter storage.

    Here's hoping it works!

    Neil
    Last edited by MauiM3Mania; 01-24-2018 at 04:34 PM. Reason: quoted profanity

  23. #123
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    The pedal feel with my Stoptechs is rock solid Neil. So chances are the booster is your issue...
    '98 M3 track whore
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    '15 KTM 1190 Adventure Beastly 2 wheeler

  24. #124
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    NeilM, any updates with the new booster?

    My brakes are simply getting worse and worse. I rebuilt the calipers, power bled, manually bled last week hoping for a fix, but no luck. Just the same as before.. The friction engagement point is below the gas pedal. I don't feel comfortable taking the car on track like this.
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by aeronaut View Post
    My rockauto/cardone booster has been fine. Installed ~4 months ago.
    Did the booster fix your issue? Would you recommend a Rockauto/Cardone unit? Doesn't seem to be any other choice really...
    COMSCC T70 E36 M3

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