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Thread: SMG tranny to manual?

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    E36 M3
    Just a couple of quick questions, i have most of the parts to do the swap but am a bit confused, the bearing repair kit (Sleeve, cap and snap ring) do the cap and snap ring just replace parts 3 & 4 or are you somehow meant to use both of them??? And what is the whole idea of the upgraded part no 16. It is so expensive!! I have bought it now, but if i was to do one in the future is it really neccassary to replace, what are they meant to improve?? It cost me something like AUS$475 trade price for the kit.

  2. #152
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    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    S50B32
    Quote Originally Posted by DJ Bob Sigma View Post
    Just a couple of quick questions, i have most of the parts to do the swap but am a bit confused, the bearing repair kit (Sleeve, cap and snap ring) do the cap and snap ring just replace parts 3 & 4 or are you somehow meant to use both of them??? And what is the whole idea of the upgraded part no 16. It is so expensive!! I have bought it now, but if i was to do one in the future is it really neccassary to replace, what are they meant to improve?? It cost me something like AUS$475 trade price for the kit.
    They replace part 3 & 4.

    Part 16 is suppose to provide better shift feel and it is not necessary to replace. AUS$475!! it is HKD980 only here in Hong Kong.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    Melbourne,Australia
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    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    Hello DusM3, have not checked the fuel regulator. I find that the stall only happen under engine brake condition (eg. clutch engaged while right foot is not on gas pedal, car is slowing down, once declutching, engine rev drop and then stall.)

    Why it only happend in such condition ?????
    I did some pressure tests on the fuel lines and came up with no major problems.
    At temperature the pressure at idle was 4.6bar with open throttle 4.9-4.95 bar (a little low).
    Gradually pinching the return line sent the pressure quickly off the scale, and holding reasonable pressure once turned off-even though it gradually started to creep up towards 5 bar.
    Anyway I decided to remove the vacuum line off the regulator. A quick drive showed a lot of promise-no rapid rev drops. I'll see over the next few days. I also have to wait for a new regulator from Germany(special order) if I order one.

  4. #154
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    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    S50B32
    If it is the regulator then it is easy fix, i will ask my garage to check this as well, thanks.

    I also have some "progress" today, got a new error code from peake, it is "29" - Air Mass Flow Meter, it is strange because the AMF is new. I guess it is triggered by other faulty sensor rahter than the AMF.

    The ABS light is also on but i think it an isolated issue.

    I think i need to bring it for a detail scan.
    Last edited by ellislau; 07-27-2010 at 06:04 AM.

  5. #155
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    Nov 2007
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    Melbourne,Australia
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    98 M3 3.2
    If you have unplugged the Maf with power on it would throw a fault code (as it did with mine ), clear it and see if it comes back.

  6. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    If you have unplugged the Maf with power on it would throw a fault code (as it did with mine ), clear it and see if it comes back.
    There was no fault code with new MAF for two weeks and it suddenly pop up. I hope it is caused by other sensors.

    Interestingly, the engine stall problem is gone when there is MAF fault code, idle is speed never drop below 600rpm when declutch after engine brake.

    After clearing the fault code with a peake scanner, the stall problem comes back again.

    ICV should be ok. I guess it is either the intake temp sensor or the o2 sensor.
    Last edited by ellislau; 02-25-2010 at 12:00 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  7. #157
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    Apr 2007
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    Hi DusM3, observed from the photo taken by my installed, i found they may have not connected the crankshaft pulse sensor (part 16), i guess it read the rotational speed of the drive shaft i wonder if it is related to the stall issue. Have this sensor connected on your M3?

    Last edited by ellislau; 03-04-2010 at 11:43 AM.

  8. #158
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    Nov 2007
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    98 M3 3.2
    Hi Ellislau, the sensor is connected to the smg computer , I have no computer so everthing is unplugged or removed. If you have the electrical schematics you can see where all the sensors are connected except for the clutch switch on the clutch line and the gear position sensor you mentioned.

    I remember when I was getting a parts list together I used my own etk and the switch (part 11 ) wasn't listed for the six speed, nor were the locking pins and bushes-they were very specific to the 5 speed. Something has changed with that site in the meantime, since it also lists a six speed for the 95 M3, or I'm missing something.

    Interesting about the MAF, my stall issue is also returning even with the vacuum line removed from the fpr. I'm getting my catback done today, I'll also be checking my cats since I explained to the shop owner and he bet the cats were blocked. I'll post up later.
    Last edited by DusM3; 03-04-2010 at 11:30 PM.

  9. #159
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    I will ask my installer to reconnect that crankshaft sensor and put all SMG related fuses back to see it there is any improvement.

    Since the stall occurs only under engine brake condition, i wonder if the strong vacuum created under engine brake causes some weak points in the vacuum lines to leak and confuse the DME. This may explain why I had an Air Flow Meter fault code with a brand new Air Flow Meter.

    Have you done vacuum leak test on the car? I am planning to use carb clearer to check for leak.

    TPS sensor is also worth checking and i am not sure i should have it replaced.
    Last edited by ellislau; 03-05-2010 at 03:16 AM.

  10. #160
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    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    I will ask my installer to reconnect that crankshaft sensor and put all SMG related fuses back to see it there is any improvement.

    Since the stall occurs only under engine brake condition, i wonder if the strong vacuum created under engine brake causes some weak points in the vacuum lines to leak and confuse the DME. This may explain why I had an Air Flow Meter fault code with a brand new Air Flow Meter.

    Have you done vacuum leak test on the car? I am planning to use carb clearer to check for leak.

    TPS sensor is also worth checking and i am not sure i should have it replaced.
    I have sprayed everywhere around the intake area with no response, I have installed new TPS,ICV,hoses,rebuilt vanos,shims,spark plugs,done the injectors,checked fuel pressure,get no fault codes (peake tool)-but I'm chasing two issues the other being loss of 40 rwkw.
    I noticed the other day a hissing sound around the front of the engine, more towards the air pump side, I don't remember hearing it before or whether its normal.

  11. #161
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    Hi DusM3,

    Just discussed with a friend who work in BMW, he suspects the activated carbon cantainer (part 3) is choked, creating too much vacuum. He said this item should be replaced every 40,000km.


  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    2009 E90 M3 DCT
    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    Hi DusM3,

    Just discussed with a friend who work in BMW, he suspects the activated carbon cantainer (part 3) is choked, creating too much vacuum. He said this item should be replaced every 40,000km.

    Careful before spending more money on diagnostics by purchasing new(er) parts. Do a seach on the track section. Most people have deleted these units (myself included). Not saying that you do the same, but without a functional carbon canister, the car still runs fine. My US spec car had 180K miles on it on the same canister. It was a race car and made 220whp throughout its life.

    Just an FYI.

    Lutfy

  13. #163
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    Apr 2007
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    UK
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    S50B32
    Hi Lutfy, thanks for your comment, i checked the vacuum level fuel tank, there is no vacuum built-up, so carbon canister should be ok.

    Bedema told me that he had tried swaping the ECU with another manual EVO M3, both M3 can start and run without any issue. However, the engine stall issue still exist on the SMG converted M3, he recalls that Clutch Pressure and Gear position indicator switch were not connected.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
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    2009 E90 M3 DCT
    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    Hi Lutfy, thanks for your comment, i checked the vacuum level fuel tank, there is no vacuum built-up, so carbon canister should be ok.

    Bedema told me that he had tried swaping the ECU with another manual EVO M3, both M3 can start and run without any issue. However, the engine stall issue still exist on the SMG converted M3, he recalls that Clutch Pressure and Gear position indicator switch were not connected.
    I think the issues you are having are independent to your specific car ie not related to the conversion.

    I did have the stall issue but I thought it was due to the race flywheel/clutch. I dont care about it since 99% of the time it lives it life at the track and I always h/t.

    My car makes a huge vaccum noise when I pop the gask tank cover (removed carbon canister). 2K kilometer on the track, no CEL to date.

    If it helps, I did the brake minimum during the conversion. Did all the spring gates and what nots in the bellhousing. Removed the shifter assembly and thats it. Didnt touch anything else (all wires/fuses still intact). I am not techno savy and will save that work when I get the car to a race shop for caging.

    Goodluck and let us know what you find.

    Lutfy

  15. #165
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    Apr 2007
    Location
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    Hi Lutfy,

    Your M3 being able to start after the SMG delete and without any electrical modifcation is still a mystery to me.

    i found that the stall is very much depending on the driving style as well, I let the garage manager to take a test drive of my car, i was sitting on the passenger seat, i gave him some guidance and he falled to reproduce the symptom!

    i am also adapting my driving style by shortening the engine brake duration before declutching when stopping or declutch, there is no more stall in the last two days even without appling heel-toe, I am not sure if it is due to the recent cool weahter (~10C) here, i can confirm it when the weather become warmer in next two weeks.

    Thanks,

    Ellis
    Last edited by ellislau; 03-09-2010 at 11:42 AM.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Adelaide Australia
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    1998 M3
    hi guys, i am currently undergoing the conversion

    in my case, i have bought a used manual gearbox + shifter + shift boot etc and am directly replacing the smg gearbox and shifter with this unit

    in regards to bridging the start relay, can anyone confirm which contacts on the relay need to be bridged?

    i understand that the shift arm bracket and bush will need to be welded to the transmission tunnel?

    i have not yet purchased the mechanical clutch items. a local wrecker told me i could get a pedal and cylinders from any e36 and it would work, is this correct?

    thanks,

    paul

  17. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98m3estoril View Post
    hi guys, i am currently undergoing the conversion

    in my case, i have bought a used manual gearbox + shifter + shift boot etc and am directly replacing the smg gearbox and shifter with this unit

    i understand that the shift arm bracket and bush will need to be welded to the transmission tunnel?

    i have not yet purchased the mechanical clutch items. a local wrecker told me i could get a pedal and cylinders from any e36 and it would work, is this correct?

    thanks,

    paul
    Goodluck with the conversion Paul.

    FWIW, you can sell your 6 spd box for decent money Add the spring gates later on and get your $$ back from what you spent on the manual box (they are identical).

    Regarding shifter, make sure you use brand spanking new bushings. Worn selector rod bushings can be annoying.

    If my memory serves me right, I didnt weld any brackets, the frame has holes where we mounted them directly.

    Regarding the mechanical clutch items, the pedal assembly is generic. but you CANNOT use the cyl from other cars. The pedal will be SOFT and mushy. Get them new, you will be glad you did.


    Lutfy

  18. #168
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98m3estoril View Post
    hi guys, i am currently undergoing the conversion

    in my case, i have bought a used manual gearbox + shifter + shift boot etc and am directly replacing the smg gearbox and shifter with this unit

    in regards to bridging the start relay, can anyone confirm which contacts on the relay need to be bridged?

    i understand that the shift arm bracket and bush will need to be welded to the transmission tunnel?

    i have not yet purchased the mechanical clutch items. a local wrecker told me i could get a pedal and cylinders from any e36 and it would work, is this correct?

    thanks,

    paul
    The normal open contact on the relay needs to be bridged.

    The master clutch cylinder is M3 3.2 specific if my memory is correct.

    Bracket need to be added, not necessary welding.

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
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    E36 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    There is a physical input for the clutch switch-pin 80 on the dme, its listed in the pinout table, but in the schematics its not shown anywhere, so its a mystery where that wiring would go to.
    The clutch switch on the clutch pedal connects to the cruise control module.
    I have an early LHD harness here and there is no input to the dme nor a plug for the switch.
    Maybe reflashing the dme with manual software is a good starting point-I know it can be done as someone had theirs accidentally reflashed with the smg version and back again.
    I have just about completed this conversion but am stuck with the cruise control switch on the clutch pedal, is there mwant to be a plug that just plugs in or is thee somesort of wiring modification to take place. i have looked through the wiring diagrams and cant seem to find what wires go to the switch, are you meant to just splice into the brake light switch wiring?????

    Quote Originally Posted by 98m3estoril View Post
    hi guys, i am currently undergoing the conversion

    in my case, i have bought a used manual gearbox + shifter + shift boot etc and am directly replacing the smg gearbox and shifter with this unit

    in regards to bridging the start relay, can anyone confirm which contacts on the relay need to be bridged?

    i understand that the shift arm bracket and bush will need to be welded to the transmission tunnel?

    i have not yet purchased the mechanical clutch items. a local wrecker told me i could get a pedal and cylinders from any e36 and it would work, is this correct?

    thanks,

    paul
    Hi paul, i too am from Australia and found out last week that the bracket is only available out of Germany from Local BMW dealers. it is only something like $8. i just used the bracket that the 3 big hydraulic lines go through on the side of the tunnel. put a grommet in the middle hole and screwed the bracket to the floor, seems to fit exactly perfect!!
    Last edited by DJ Bob Sigma; 03-15-2010 at 02:36 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  20. #170
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    Jan 2009
    Location
    Adelaide Australia
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    1998 M3
    thanks for your responses guys - its getting closer every day now

    LUTFY: thanks I hope I get some good $$ back for all the SMG gear! the pump was only 10K kms old, and the actuator is brand new. hopefully there is someone trying to fix their SMG that want these parts. most people are probably converting to manual these days though i guess. i might just try and sell the gearbox as is too

    ellislau: thankyou, your picture is very helpful. i have purchased brand new master & slave cylinders for the clutch.

    DJ Bob: cool mate thats a good idea. did you find it tough to get the mechanical clutch parts as well? i am planning on going to the wrecker on the weekend and getting the clutch pedal and springs etc out a standard E36. i wonder if all the lines / grommets / brackets etc are required for the clutch lines or whether some of it is already there?

    cant wait to get it back and running

  21. #171
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    Jan 2010
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    Australia Adelaide south Australia
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    e36M3,635csi
    Hi I am doing the conversion and am at Victor Harbor, I bought all the parts through USA and the were about 1third of what you pay in Australia and I got the shift bracket ordered last week arrived yesterday.Good luck trying to sell your smg stuff I tried last week on ebay no interest.

    Pete

  22. #172
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    Jan 2009
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    Adelaide Australia
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    1998 M3
    Thanks Peter, I import most of my parts to

    I got the master & slave cylinders now

    I notice the connections are different on them, so the line that connects the two must have different connections on each end? Can anyone confirm or deny this

    Do I need to order the stock parts?

    I looked at the ETK for "clutch control" on the following link

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...59&hg=21&fg=10

    Pretty sure I need part number 12, but the part number is not listed anywhere underneath? Can anyone help with this

    Thanks

    Paul

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Melbourne,Australia
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    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by 98m3estoril View Post
    Thanks Peter, I import most of my parts to

    I got the master & slave cylinders now

    I notice the connections are different on them, so the line that connects the two must have different connections on each end? Can anyone confirm or deny this

    Do I need to order the stock parts?

    I looked at the ETK for "clutch control" on the following link

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...59&hg=21&fg=10

    Pretty sure I need part number 12, but the part number is not listed anywhere underneath? Can anyone help with this

    Thanks

    Paul
    The parts numbered that are not listed are not for your car, item 22,23,24 and 25 are the parts I ordered. The switch is just to plug the hole, but if you figure out where to wire it let us know. Good luck.
    Last edited by DusM3; 03-18-2010 at 01:17 AM.

  24. #174
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    Jan 2009
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    Adelaide Australia
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    1998 M3
    Thanks Dus, that makes more sense

    i have a braided line for the clutch, doesnt this go in place of part 23?


    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    The parts numbered that are not listed are not for your car, item 22,23,24 and 25 are the parts I ordered. The switch is just to plug the hole, but if you figure out where to wire it let us know. Good luck.
    Thanks again Dus, I assume 10, 19, 11 & 13 are still required as well?
    Last edited by 98m3estoril; 03-18-2010 at 02:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  25. #175
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    Quote Originally Posted by 98m3estoril View Post
    Thanks Dus, that makes more sense

    i have a braided line for the clutch, doesnt this go in place of part 23?




    Thanks again Dus, I assume 10, 19, 11 & 13 are still required as well?
    The plug-in pipe is required (it is deceptively small in the diagram, it is a right pain to install) and you can use the braided line in place of the hose-I'm considering the HEL brand, the other bits are cheap and good to have just in case.

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