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Thread: SMG tranny to manual?

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asdspeed View Post
    Can anyone tell me if have have a smg trans and want to put it in my 6speed e46 m3 what parts do I have to modify or take off to get it to work like a normal trans? Thanks in advanced
    This thread isn't about the E46 SMGII transmission. It is specifically about the E36 SMGI which is a hydraulically automated manual.

    The only way to convert your E46 SMG car is to change the transmission entirely. If you have any other questions, I suggest the E46 forum.
    Last edited by FSUhorizon; 09-04-2009 at 07:54 PM.
    Wow:http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=971063

    Just say no to cheap reps. Go real or go home.

    OZ bolt tools for $41 shipped:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/OZ-FUTURAS-S...item51a0a55203

  2. #77
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    Some pics of the locking pin holes on the bell house after modifcation.

    Before:




    After:






    Drawing for the bell house modification:

    Last edited by ellislau; 09-09-2009 at 11:43 PM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  3. #78
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    Re The E46 smg box, I suspect that the conversion will be similar physically though electrically its a mystery at the moment. Reason I bring this up is that good E36 boxes are getting to be very rare, and if they physically fit to our engines then its another option for when one goes bad.

    PS Ellislau-great drawing, I had a macine shop do the work as well but rushed to assembly...I got those dimensions but not the reference angles.

    I found that it was a real chore getting the end seals and clips in due to the strength of the springs, and belatedly realised that instead of the groove for the clip, it would have been desirable to have a double threaded insert with set screw to allow for -
    1/ Easier installation, and
    2/ Adjustable pressure on the springs.
    As it was I couldn't get the new spring for reverse in, and had to use the old one.
    Last edited by DusM3; 09-10-2009 at 01:29 AM.

  4. #79
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    Hello DusM3, the dimensions in the drawing was designed base on measurements of the BMW parts used, if you still have the dimension of original manual 6-speed box, appreciate you can show it as a reference.

    The reverse spring is extremely hard to install by hands, i think it requires to be inserted using a pressing machine, my friend got it installed by his mechanic, amazingly.
    Last edited by ellislau; 09-10-2009 at 11:10 AM.

  5. #80
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    To those that have done the conversion, I've ordered the clutch pedal and associated parts including the clutch switch. I've also gotten everything on this diagram on the way:

    http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E3...lutch_control/

    I have two questions.

    1. Is it better to use a 325i slave cylinder? I've heard that this might improve clutch pedal feel with a lightweight flywheel.

    2. Which, if any, of the following clutch line mounting parts do I need:

    http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E3..._clutch_lines/

    Wow:http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=971063

    Just say no to cheap reps. Go real or go home.

    OZ bolt tools for $41 shipped:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/OZ-FUTURAS-S...item51a0a55203

  6. #81
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    Guys, I removed the screw holding the shaft numbered 2. The spring came along with it. Part number 1 seems to be in place and wont come out. There is nothing (as in screw/bolt/pin) holding it from either the front/side/rear. It seems locked and I am not convinced that I should pry it out (making sure). I need this out so I can replicate part number 5.

    I guess I need to find the bearing somehow now. UGH!

    TIA

    Lutfy

  7. #82
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    For part 1, there is no locking or screw, just withdraw it from the bell house:



    Regarding the PIN, instead of fabricating one, you can use the pin from this part, it is from Getrag S5D250G.




    The bearing size as mentioned before by another member is 22mm/8mm(hole) and 7mm thick.

    Quote Originally Posted by FSUhorizon View Post

    2. Which, if any, of the following clutch line mounting parts do I need:

    http://bmwfans.info/parts/catalog/E3..._clutch_lines/
    My friend did it on a RHD M3 and didn't need the above clutch line mounting parts.
    Last edited by ellislau; 09-17-2009 at 10:12 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    The part number is correct, it has two metal bearings, while part no 3 and 4 are already included in this parts.

    Quantity needed = 2.

    Ellislau,

    THANKS a lot for your help. The diagram shows the pins followed by the springs, then the plastic cap followed by the lock ring in the end.

    With this upgraded part, you need to put the sleeves in there before the pins (making sure it is not drilled all the way through otherwise they will enter the housing), then put the pin, springs etc. My only concern is, will this be adequate to hold the pressure/lube inside the tranny? Did you guys notice any tranny oil leak(s)?
    Thanks for the most recent post as well. Found out the part number. Looks like everything is available from BMW.

    http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...23&fg=15&hl=15

    We need parts 4 and 5. From 4 I can get the pin and use part five to replace the ball bearing?

    Sorry if I continue to ask dumb questions, am a typical finance geek who is attempting to do this myself.

    Lutfy

  9. #84
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    Lutfy,

    Not dump question at all, pls find replies below:

    1. It is not simple drilling, it needs to be done by a proper workshop with milling machine.

    2. The transmission is not pressurized, so there should be no leaking giving the modification work is done accurately.

    3. Part 4 is ok but don't use part 5, we tried it and it is 1mm smaller in radius, try to use the bearing as mentioned before.

    Last edited by ellislau; 09-19-2009 at 12:59 PM.

  10. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    We here in Hong Kong, just had a SMG M3 converted to manual successfully.

    We modifying (by bypassing) the K6307 "EKP and start detector relay", the engine can be started.

    The location of this relay is inside the black rectangular box on the upper right hand corner of the fuse/distribution box in the engine compartment.



    Ellislau,

    Thanks a lot for the previous pointers/pics. It really helped. We had the machinist drill the holes and install the pins with the springs. The reverse gear spring was a B***H, one needs to press that in.

    Fast forward a few days, the tranny is back in the car along with the slave cyl, clutch pedal, short shiter. So far it shifts like manual

    Final Question

    How do I start the car? I did read the post all over again and downloaded the wiring diagram. Am kinda confused and my mechanic is a bit lost as well.

    Ellislau, noticed this post with pic (above). What exactly did you modify?

    Thanks guys.

    Lutfy

  11. #86
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    Lutfy,

    Congratulation on the progress.

    Open the black rectangular box, take out the K6307 relay located on the rightmost, open the relay case, modify the contacts inside so it is always engaged. You can get a electrician for help on this job.

    Put the modified relay back and the engine should be able to start.

    You can remove the fuses mentioned before, but to start the engine, K6307 relay need to be modified.

    Ellis
    Last edited by ellislau; 09-30-2009 at 01:15 AM.

  12. #87
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    Another successful SGM to Manual conversion. I did the transfer based on info on this thread (I am NOT mechanical savvy and hired a NON BMW mechanic to help me out. THANKS guys.

    Few last bits, Ellis I opened up the fuse box and noticed that I had two smaller (not one large) relay on the right corner. Needless to say, the car started without doing ANY mechanical work. I am assuming it may be prewired as the previous owner was having issues with the system? Not sure what the hell is going on with the wiring system, the car runs fantastic though.

    Are these parts necessary (see below):

    [/QUOTE]

    Lutfy

  13. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUTFY View Post
    Another successful SGM to Manual conversion. I did the transfer based on info on this thread (I am NOT mechanical savvy and hired a NON BMW mechanic to help me out. THANKS guys.

    Few last bits, Ellis I opened up the fuse box and noticed that I had two smaller (not one large) relay on the right corner. Needless to say, the car started without doing ANY mechanical work. I am assuming it may be prewired as the previous owner was having issues with the system? Not sure what the hell is going on with the wiring system, the car runs fantastic though.

    Are these parts necessary (see below):

    Lutfy[/QUOTE]
    I bought and didn't use them.
    If you're wondering what to do with that relay I'll take a pic of its internals
    to show you the mod.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by LUTFY View Post
    Few last bits, Ellis I opened up the fuse box and noticed that I had two smaller (not one large) relay on the right corner. Needless to say, the car started without doing ANY mechanical work. I am assuming it may be prewired as the previous owner was having issues with the system? Not sure what the hell is going on with the wiring system, the car runs fantastic though.
    Congratulation, as long as the engine can start, you don't need to make the relay modification.

  15. #90
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    Guys,

    The car has been running like a champ. Punished it at the track last weekend, no major issues.

    There are issue which I need to takle:

    The switch which connects to one of the slave cyl. It is unplugged. There is no connection and I believe we need to make one which connects to the DME. My car stalls (from time to time) when the rpms drop or when I am coasting. At the track its not a problem (since I am on gas or heel/toeing/braking). Any ideas how to fix this?

    BTW the Clutch Masters FX700 race flywheel/clutch kit makes the car come ALIVE. Never missed the SMG one bit.

    Lutfy

  16. #91
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    Great! How is the shift effort/quality? is it same as oem?

    For original manual 3.2 euro M3, there is a in-line pressure switch on the clutch line connecting to the slave cylinder. I didn't know there is a switch on the SMG slave cyl, any photo for illustration?

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by ellislau View Post
    Great! How is the shift effort/quality? is it same as oem?

    For original manual 3.2 euro M3, there is a in-line pressure switch on the clutch line connecting to the slave cylinder. I didn't know there is a switch on the SMG slave cyl, any photo for illustration?
    Ellislau,

    The shifter feels a bit sloppy, for a lack of better term, and this is because I didnt have the metal bearing which goes to the back of the selector rod (facing towards the back of the car). I did a ghetto mod by taking a spare exhaust hanger and making a bracket to fit it. Otherwise, pretty much like a manual car

    I believe DusM3 and Alex commented on my previous airbox post. My car would idle fine but would die when the rpms would drop too low. Alex indicated that the pressure switch is connected to the DME. In our case, either we find out how to send this message to the DME or just live with the issue (does not bother me since its a race car).

    BTW did any of you guys noticed that our cars accelerates a LOT freely compared to the OEM Manual cars in 1st gear. I think there is a NANNY mode or such but the SMG did not have it hence lack of hesitation?

    Lutfy

  18. #93
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    You can get a bracket from BMW:


    If you have not re-flashed the the DME to the manual version, i think there is no need fort a pressure switch.

    Have not heard similar stalling issue on my friends' SMG converted M3, the problem you have could caused by other issues.
    Last edited by ellislau; 10-12-2009 at 09:51 PM.

  19. #94
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    I'm definitely going to wire in that switch the moment I find out whether the other side of the switch is to 12v or ground, that intermittent stalling is very annoying. Unless its the flywheel....I get a slight change in note around the bellhousing area when I cycle the clutch around the engagment point.
    1st gear hesitation could just be vanos mechanical delay .
    Once you get the right bracket in place the slop will just about disappear.

    EDIT-Just noticed Lufty you don't have the original flywheel
    Last edited by DusM3; 10-12-2009 at 11:30 PM.

  20. #95
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    Last edited by ellislau; 10-13-2009 at 11:51 PM.

  21. #96
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    Hello all

    A few months ago I converted my SMG to 5 speed manual so I didn't need to go down the route of converting my SMG gearbox for manual operation.

    However, I now fancy converting my SMG box but wondered if an easy way is to just take the bellhousing from a broken manual 6 speed box and transfer it to my SMG box? Can anyone confirm whether it's possible?

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by tommy lee View Post
    Hello all

    A few months ago I converted my SMG to 5 speed manual so I didn't need to go down the route of converting my SMG gearbox for manual operation.

    However, I now fancy converting my SMG box but wondered if an easy way is to just take the bellhousing from a broken manual 6 speed box and transfer it to my SMG box? Can anyone confirm whether it's possible?
    The gearbox (6 spd) is the same as the 6 spd manual which came from the factory. The only difference is that inside the tranny you have reverse/5-6 spring guided gates. So in essence your 5 spd swap was not necessary unless you broke the 6spd tranny (as stated above). In that case, the 6 spd Getrag cannot be rebuilt (from what I have heard). But if the SMG pump when kaboom, then there is no correlation between the pump and the tranny. I have never heard of anyone blowing their 6 spd either. Hope this helps.

    Lutfy

  23. #98
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    Hi Lutfy. Thanks for the reply. I should clarify myself.

    The reason I went to a 5 speed tranny was because I am preparing the car for track work, the 5 speed having a nicer feel and being slightly lighter than the 6. Coincidentally my SMG 6 speed tranny was fine with no problems and I still have that tranny in my shed. It was my SMG pump that died.

    However, the 5 speed tranny I sourced that is fitted to the car is not in the best condition so I want to go back to my SMG tranny. So my question is, rather than do the work shown in this thread (drilling the housing and fitting the spring parts), can I just swap over the bellhousing from a full manual 6 speed tranny to my SMG tranny?

  24. #99
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    Hi Tommy Lee,

    To make things simple, your SMG tranny can also be called a Manual 6 spd tranny. It is the same tranny, the bellhousing is also the same sans a few springs and gates.

    Because the computer did the shifting, it didn’t care about the spring plates. When you shift into reverse, it’s a bit hard or tight (for a lack of better term) to move it all the way to left. This is so you do not shift it in reverse when you want to go into 1st.

    You can take a factory 6 spd (original manual) bellhousing and YES mate it with your 6 spd tranny. If you have to spend money on a 6 spd manual bellhousing and it costs anything north of 200GBP, I wouldn’t do it. Look I am not the smartest cookie when it comes to auto related stuff and if you follow the instructions on this thread, it’s a pretty simple job. If your tranny is already out, you may have to spend maybe GBP 50 in parts and possibly another 50-100 for machining and be done with it.

    Goodluck.

    Lutfy

    PS: Like you I don’t see any advantage of having a 6 spd for a track car. I have a stock rear end and will be going with a 3.91 running 255/40/17s. Chances are I may never shift into 6th and am carrying 25-30lbs for no good reason.

  25. #100
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    Thanks Lutfy. Exactly what I wanted to hear. I have the chance to buy a broken 6 speed for 50GBP so all is good

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