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Thread: SMG tranny to manual?

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
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    finland
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    -99 m3 cabrio eurospec
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    Looks like you are almost there!
    Did you remove Fuse 7 as well, if so does your central locking still work?
    Reason I ask is on pg 42 of wiring diagram fuse 7 supplies this circuit.
    I haven't pulled out my cluster to see what is disconnected, but I remember seeing at least one plug removed.
    The clutch switch had +12v from a whole bunch of solder connectors under the dash-this then went to the switch and then ground.(the connection had no label).
    I removed #26, and #111 (#111 because the hydraulic pump is else running all the time).
    Think the clutch information is not have to be, if i don´t use the cruise?
    I´m using "separated start button", so this starts when i push it.

  2. #27
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    DusM3, did you use your own pedal assembly?
    I got the cylinders today, and i think that the master cylinder won´t fit to smg assembly?
    I´m not sure, because i don´t have the pedal yet.

  3. #28
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    Nov 2007
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    98 M3 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by leppala View Post
    DusM3, did you use your own pedal assembly?
    I got the cylinders today, and i think that the master cylinder won´t fit to smg assembly?
    I´m not sure, because i don´t have the pedal yet.
    The pedal box is original, as is the brake and accelerator pedals. I ordered the clutch pedal,springs,clips,over the centre helper,slave and master cylinders, plug-in pipe,clutch hose and pressure switch,mtg brackets etc.
    At the moment the slave cylinder is the smg unit on mine because of a big delay on getting the plug in pipe.I used the LHD version pipe and shaped it to get running.Now I have the correct part I will be installing the lines and the slave cylinder when I remove my plenum next time.
    The master cylinder should fit-but is a major PITA,I had to re-install one night because it wasn't put in straight originally.Is your master plastic and has no boot at front-this version is used with the plug-in pipe.Post some pics if you can.
    Also I removed the pump and left the cable/plug/relay/fuse etc.
    Last edited by DusM3; 05-06-2008 at 02:15 PM. Reason: Clarity

  4. #29
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    -99 m3 cabrio eurospec
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    The pedal box is original, as is the brake and accelerator pedals. I ordered the clutch pedal,springs,clips,over the centre helper,slave and master cylinders, plug-in pipe,clutch hose and pressure switch,mtg brackets etc.
    At the moment the slave cylinder is the smg unit on mine because of a big delay on getting the plug in pipe.I used the LHD version pipe and shaped it to get running.Now I have the correct part I will be installing the lines and the slave cylinder when I remove my plenum next time.
    The master cylinder should fit-but is a major PITA,I had to re-install one night because it wasn't put in straight originally.Is your master plastic and has no boot at front-this version is used with the plug-in pipe.Post some pics if you can.
    Also I removed the pump and left the cable/plug/relay/fuse etc.
    Here is pics of master:
    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...7052008260.jpg
    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...7052008261.jpg

    here is pedal assembly:
    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...7052008259.jpg
    http://i161.photobucket.com/albums/t...7052008262.jpg
    Which are the holes to master cylinder? Can you copy and draw to pic them?

    Here is my project pics: http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t...ala/projektia/

    and here is few pics of the car http://s161.photobucket.com/albums/t...3%20smg%20-99/

    btw, what means pita

  5. #30
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    98 M3 3.2
    That master cylinder is not the one I have, mine is shorter and has no boot at the front. I believe yours is from the earlier models.
    Part number is 2152 6758 820-input cylinder.Should be the same on your car. Look at the "From Date" to avoid the wrong parts.
    Last edited by DusM3; 05-07-2008 at 01:09 PM. Reason: PITA-Pain in the ass

  6. #31
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    I get those cylinder from local part dealer, not bmw dealer...
    Thats why it won´t fit there...
    Now i have to get the pedal to see if this cylinder finds it´s place somehow.

  7. #32
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    \o/ it´s ready now!!!
    Gearshift on that short shifter is great.
    Thanks guys for help.

  8. #33
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    1989 635CSi Euro Spec.
    Onnistuihan se !!!! Hyvin tehty homma.

    Well done DUSM3!!!!!
    Matt @ Australia

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozbmw View Post
    Onnistuihan se !!!! Hyvin tehty homma.

    Well done DUSM3!!!!!
    Kiitoksi vaan
    Pikaisten btcf selailuiden jälkeen tajusin että täällähän on suomalaisiakin
    Thanks again DusM3

  10. #35
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    Nov 2007
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    98 M3 3.2
    No problem guys, I wish all this info was available when I was doing mine. I wouldn't have screwed around with as much!
    How is the clutch engagement on yours Leppala ? I put in my new clutch line and slave cylinder/hose in over the weekend and am not happy with the pedal feel or engagement point. Maybe i didn't bleed correctly (I used the pump the pedal and hold method). The clutch now seems to engage virtually at the firewall - even though the slave pushrod is longer than the smg slave by about 15 mm, and the smg slave engagement was about 25 mm from the firewall ????
    I will rig up a pressure bleed tomorrow and see the results.

    I also put in and wired the engine oil temp. sensor, in preparation for the cluster, I will post some pics soon.
    Also I discovered that if the smg pump relay feedback (7.5A fuse in pump relay box)is not seen by the dme-the starter will not engage.I will rectify by bridging this input and deleting the smg pump relay.
    Please anyone with info re the clutch engagement point.....

  11. #36
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    -99 m3 cabrio eurospec
    I have new cylinders, and lines is "home made"=copper pipe+renault twingo brake hose
    (it´s that master i send the pics)

    Clutch feel is like any other car, little bit harder, but not too much.

    Little up´n down+I got the vacuum bleeder machine(right word?), and it worked right away.
    Have you pull your master piston hole way up and down?
    Mine won´t first came full up if i dont pull it up by hands.

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
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    Italy, Milan
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    M3 CSL, M3E46, M3 E36 3.2
    Hi all, I'm Alex and write from Italy, I also have to convert my SMG in manual and i've a problem (I think to be the first in Italy to convert it)

    I bought the parts 1,2,3,4,5,6,16 and the part 2311 7542 726 but I did not understand what it... Where should I install it?
    I looked at this picture, where I find the part number 6? The parts number 1,2,3,4,5 are in my gearbox, right?
    And the ball bearing below the part 5? I have to buy it in a BMW or any dealer ball bearings?




    Please help me!!!

  13. #38
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    Nov 2007
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    98 M3 3.2
    Firstly good luck with the conversion. The parts you bought (except #16) need to be fitted to your bellhousing after machining.No other needed parts are available from BMW.
    From post#4 - Photo #3 is what you have now, #4 is what is required when complete.
    That pin you labelled as 6 is the same as 5, and needs to be machined from a hardened pin (on a lathe), and the hole machined in the bellhousing. The bearing is from a bearing supplier.
    Photo #5 is parts 1 to 6 in the etk when installed, this is the tricky machining part, but it becomes obvious when you remove the bellhousing. Item 16 are the detents which you are upgrading-no machining required, your 'box already has them.






    Last edited by DusM3; 11-06-2008 at 11:31 AM.

  14. #39
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    M3 CSL, M3E46, M3 E36 3.2
    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    Firstly good luck with the conversion. The parts you bought need to be fitted to your bellhousing after machining.No other needed parts are available from BMW. Photo #3 is what you have now,#4 is what is required when complete.That pin you labelled as 6 is the same as 5, and needs to be machined from a hardened pin (on a lathe), and the hole machined in the bellhousing. The bearing is from a bearing supplier.
    Photo #5 is parts 1 to 6 in the etk when installed, this is the tricky machining part, but it becomes obvious when you dismantle the bellhousing. Item 16 are the detents which you are upgrading-no machining required, your 'box already has them.



    [IMG]http://forums.***************************************?att achmentid=235677&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207616474[/IMG] [IMG]http://forums.***************************************?att achmentid=235678&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207616474[/IMG] [IMG]http://forums.***************************************?att achmentid=235679&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207616474[/IMG] [IMG]http://forums.***************************************?att achmentid=235680&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207616474[/IMG] [IMG]http://forums.***************************************?att achmentid=235681&stc=1&thumb=1&d=1207616474[/IMG]



    Thank you for your immediate response but I can not see images in links.

    So I have to make 5 and 6 in a factory lathe? I can not buy, right?
    You have some measurement (length, diameter etc etc) to recommend to me?

    You can send pictures to my e-mail (bmw_m3_e36@hotmail.it)?
    Last edited by M3MotorsportITA; 11-06-2008 at 11:42 AM.

  15. #40
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    Sorry for the confusion, I deleted the links because they didn't work.And some more photo's...
    Attached Images Attached Images

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by DusM3 View Post
    Sorry for the confusion, I deleted the links because they didn't work.And some more photo's...
    ok, I put the part 2311 7542 726 inside the holes that I drilled, and inside it I put the parts 1 and 5 with their springs (http://bmwfans.info/original/E36/Cou...ill-23_0233/#2)

  17. #42
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    E36 M3 Saloon 286BHP
    Hi Guys. I'm Andy from the UK.
    I am too about to attempt this conversion on a 1997 E36 M3 (Euro spec).

    It's been really interesting reading these threads, but I have a couple of questions which I hope may be answered...

    1. I have read that the 6 speed EVO gearbox is identical to the 5 speed item - except for the 6th gear. (overdrive).
    Does this mean that the 5 speed internal parts can be used to overhaul 90%ish of a 6 speed box ?
    All internal parts e.g syncro's, bearings etc are avaliable for the 5 speed from BMW dealers, but this is not so for 6 speed boxes.

    2. You have said that the SMG ctrl unit needs to remain installed or else the engine will not start.
    From what I can see it looks like this is simply down to the gearshift inhibitor function which could be bypassed via the relay circuit - or am I incorrect ?
    I realise there is a CAN connection between the DME and SMG, but suspect this is mainly to feed the SMG with critical data like load, engine speed etc - and not feeding the DME with any start inhibiting data from SMG.
    Any thoughts ?

    3. I am also puzzled by the statement that the EWS will require "Re programming".
    The DME and EWS immobiliser work together, but EWS and SMG do not - as far as I can see. If the DME was being replaced I could agree, but we are using the original unit.
    Again, just my point of view (as yet untested) - Any input welcome.

    Cheers.
    Last edited by Griffman; 11-07-2008 at 03:43 PM.

  18. #43
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    Yugo
    The 5 and 6 speed gearboxes are not identical at all. The parts in common is closer to 0%.

  19. #44
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    Dec 2008
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    Coventry, United Kingdom
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    96 Evo Cab, 98 Evo Coupe
    Hi,

    Trying the conversion myself, clutch and electronics all sorted (i think!) can get hold of a 6 speed gear shifter/stick, do i need anything else? How do you convert the gearbox to accept the manual stick, and do you need a different propshaft after you have removed all the SMG hydraulic gear?

    I can confirm the previous posts, all E36 clutch pedals and master cylinders bolt straight in and electrics wise all i needed was to disconnect the plug by the SMG pump and remove two fuses (will confirm numbers if required) the car now starts and runs fine although still stuck in 3rd gear

    To all that have completed the conversion, how have you got on with it? Any problems, gremlins or advice?

    Griffman: How are you getting on? Where are you based? I am in Coventry, West Midlands

    Thanks in anticipation,

    Paul

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
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    98 M3 3.2
    Seems the smg delete "mystery" is almost no more.
    The gearshift requires no mods,just assemble it, and the prop. is original.But don't forget to fix the gearshift support bracket.
    To do again-I would go LWFlywheel, and shortshift.
    As an update, I have also removed the smg computer, but by doing so the car wouldn't start. I overcame this by firstly finding the "start recognition relay" and removing the coil and bridging the signal contacts and then refitting the cover.
    I also shortened an old smg ecu and only used the front with all the exposed pins (for bridging) to allow me the use of the old wiring, which has come in handy for the oil temp. gauge in the new cluster.
    The only gremlin for me now is to get the dme reflashed so the engine behaves as if there where never an smg system.

    OPTIONS___We need someone who knows electronics to draw up a circuit to display the acceleration sensor values on an LED display aka F1.
    I will also run the gearbox oil temp. wiring to the cluster, and using a momentery changeover relay, switch between engine and gearbox oil temps.
    Last edited by DusM3; 12-10-2008 at 11:43 PM.

  21. #46
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    DusM3: Thanks for taking the time to answer, have a second hand 6 speed stick on its way and removed all the SMG bits from the gearbox (my first question seems obvious now!)

    Will keep you updated on how i get on.

    Thanks again,

    Paul

  22. #47
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    Dec 2008
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    Coventry, United Kingdom
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    96 Evo Cab, 98 Evo Coupe
    The 6 speed stick has been fitted, just had to make a bracket to support the rear mounting, reassembled everything and took for a spin.
    A few problems, the clutch slips when you accelerate hard, the biting point is low, again about 25mm from the bulkhead and it is easy to select reverse as there is no spring pressure or guides.
    I have a receipt from BMW with the car which shows a new clutch and flywheel were fitted 8000 miles ago, not conclusive i know but you would have to think they are both in good order. The cluth slave cylinder i fitted is from a 318, only because it was to hand and i had a fitting, i do wonder now if it is a different length to the SMG/6 speed cylinder?
    Excuse my ignorance, as so far i have done all this work without removing the gearbox, in Alex's post, the photo shows various items he purchased, what are these for?
    Thanks again,
    Paul

  23. #48
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    98 M3 3.2
    ^It's your choice to go the way you have, though I think you need to reread this thread carefully, you may lose your engine by way of a serious mechanical over-rev- so easy to choose the wrong gear with no gate centreing.
    I'm pretty sure clutch-line parts are M3 Euro specific, and the support bracket for the shifter is available at the dealer.

  24. #49
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    My apologies, have re-read the whole thread and understand a bit better now.

    I purchased the car quite cheap as a non runner as the SMG pump had failed and it was stuck in gear, i wanted to get it driving as quick as possible to check out everything else on the car as i was in two minds as to whether to break it for parts or repair it, it has turned out to be ok so i will now drop the gearbox to convert it properly.

    I am struggling with the link to the wiring diagram, keep getting the page cannot be found?

  25. #50
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    london uk
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    98' E36 325 Coupe
    am also about to do this conversion, to my 98 m3 evo, fingers crossed

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