Volvo Upgrade DIY

[Jester323]

So has anyone actually done this conversion with the e12 master cyl? I have already picked up my 240 Girling calipers & am about to start ordering some new lines. I figured I could just buy two sets of the e21 hard line kits from W&N, and see if I can order just a single set of front braided stainless steel flex lines from Bav Auto to match the pair I already have.

I'm worried thought that I may not have long enough lines for all 4 positions in the E12 MC though. And I'm also wondering if the e21 fluid reservoir will fit into the e12 MC, or if I need to pick up an e12 reservoir as well.

[jjgbmw323]

So has anyone actually done this conversion with the e12 master cyl? I have already picked up my 240 Girling calipers & am about to start ordering some new lines. I figured I could just buy two sets of the e21 hard line kits from W&N, and see if I can order just a single set of front braided stainless steel flex lines from Bav Auto to match the pair I already have.

I'm worried thought that I may not have long enough lines for all 4 positions in the E12 MC though. And I'm also wondering if the e21 fluid reservoir will fit into the e12 MC, or if I need to pick up an e12 reservoir as well.

I was told that it has been done with the e12 master cylinder before and it worked fine. A few guys on Tricord's old board had done it.

Mine work fine on the stock 323i master cylinder, thanks to Josh for making the lines and drilling out my front Hartge calipers to fit.

[switlikbob]

Josh worked on them - slotting them and making the brake lines for them, and I can wait to get them on my car.

Is this something Josh will do for others, if properly compensated?

[switlikbob]

Based on measurements, is this the correct rotor?

[jrcook320]

Is this something Josh will do for others, if properly compensated?

Yes, but I won't be able to do any side jobs for at least another month right now. Too many projects (putting an addition on my house and re-roofing the whole house)

Based on measurements, is this the correct rotor?

All e21 rotors are 255mm outer diameter (10.04"). Non-vented 320i rotors are 12.6mm thick, while vented '77 320i and all 323i rotors are 21.9mm thick.

[switlikbob]

Thanks for the reply Josh...I will hit you up in a month. I can take care of boring out the caliper bolt holes, but getting the brake lines done is another story. Good luck with the addition and roofing job!

[Jester323]

Josh, do the Volvo 240 (Girling) calipers also take a m10x1.0 nut with a bubble (DIN) flare for the input lines? My apologies if this was covered somewhere else.

[77 320i]

this is an EXCELLENT chapter in brakes and their upgrades...i really enjoyed it...i am about to change my rear drums to discs and i hope that i can find as helpful of a thread on that as this appears to be for those swapping out their front calipers...but...perhaps this is my novice experience with bmw's shining through...but...

QUESTION: why volvo calipers? i get the appeal of vented rotors...but why not 1977 320i front calipers which allow for a vented rotor too? is this motivated by costs? if so that would certainly be understandable...if it is to achieve more pistons that is also logical and i would understand that too...i am not challenging their use with the question...but i am trying to catch the logic of the application...and admittedly...sometimes i am just not that smart...any help? and while we are on this subject...i understand from off line conversations, other internet sites, and comments in this thread that different master cylinders are periodically used...what is the advantage of a different master cylinder? what is the application that motivates the need? thanks in advance for any help light you can shed!

[Jester323]

The Volvo 240 calipers are easily adaptable to the e21 geometry and have approximately 30-40% larger pad area which will provide more efficient stopping power with less heat, less heat equates to a lower likelihood of boiling your brake fluid & brake fade in spirited driving applications, as well as longer life of the pads, rotors & wheel bearings.

Dual pistons in the caliper provide a more equal clamping force and a more efficient stopping force, and keep pad wear even.

The 240 calipers use dual pistons, thus they need two fluid input lines. The stock e21 master cylinder has 3 output ports, 2 for the fronts, 1 for the rear. You can choose to re-use this master cylinder and create a "T" in the front lines to split them and apply fluid to both pistons OR the e12 master cylinder has 5 ports, 4 for the front (2 lines for each side) and 1 for the rear because the early 5's used a dual piston front caliper as well. The e12 master cylinder also has a larger bore diameter, so more fluid can be applied to the calipers for the same amount of pedal travel, thus you have a more responsive brake pedal.

[switlikbob]

That's great information as well. So I guess new hard (brake)lines would have to be run to accomidate the e12 master cylinder? Or do people block off the 2 extra ports and T near the caliper?

[Beemer Tech]

i think Jester is planing on running more lines.

Correct me if im wrong but i believe that some cars that run 2 port front calipers including volvo's only have the two outputs in their masters, they split the outputs three ways, each output operates one pair of pistons in each front caliper and one rear caliper.

Its called a triangulated brake circuit, so if one of the two circuit fails you still have some braking on three of the four wheels. is this the setup you where thinkg of using? I pretty sure this is the way e12's were set for our market, again might be wrong.

so this explains the reason for two ports in each caliper. brands like Brembo and Willwood dont have the two inputs in their multi-piston calipers to save the hassle of retrofitting them and to run factory lines.

[charbel]

great info ..

[Beemer Tech]

oh and explains why volvo's have four spotters lol, its not like they need the extra braking, it was just so they could run their brakes this way (safety, not sportiness)

and juster they are bubble flare apparently.

[jrcook320]

i think Jester is planing on running more lines.

Correct me if im wrong but i believe that some cars that run 2 port front calipers including volvo's only have the two outputs in their masters, they split the outputs three ways, each output operates one pair of pistons in each front caliper and one rear caliper.

Its called a triangulated brake circuit, so if one of the two circuit fails you still have some braking on three of the four wheels. is this the setup you where thinkg of using? I pretty sure this is the way e12's were set for our market, again might be wrong.

so this explains the reason for two ports in each caliper. brands like Brembo and Willwood dont have the two inputs in their multi-piston calipers to save the hassle of retrofitting them and to run factory lines.

Never heard of this, but makes sense. The bmw 2002 and e12 5 series have 4 ports (on 2 circuits) on the MC for the front brake circuit and 1 for the rear. Each piston in the MC controls half of each front caliper.

[RetroBeemer]

Just done this conversion and my brakes are way better than they were when stock. I also fitted the e12 M/cylinder and have a good pedal feel. Well worth doing this conversion imo.

[switlikbob]

Just done this conversion and my brakes are way better than they were when stock. I also fitted the e12 M/cylinder and have a good pedal feel. Well worth doing this conversion imo.

what did you do with the hard brake lines? Use a T, or run new lines?

[Beemer Tech]

Never heard of this, but makes sense. The bmw 2002 and e12 5 series have 4 ports (on 2 circuits) on the MC for the front brake circuit and 1 for the rear. Each piston in the MC controls half of each front caliper.

so they do run triangulated brake circuits, like i thought. except they have a six output (3 for each piston/circuit) master instead of two. cool.

[Jester323]

I'm curious how this would work in reality. I would think that if you have a loss of pressure someplace then the entire system loses pressure. I can't see how you could segregate circuits within the MC, I guess it would help if a line got pinched or a piston froze up...

To answer a previous question, I will be running dual lines from the e12 MC.

RetroBeemer, did the e21 reservoir fit on the e12 MC?

[Beemer Tech]

there are two pistons in dual circiut MC that each work kinda indipendant of each other, each has there own in and out, plus its own seperate part of the reservoir so if you blow a line or somthing you only loose pressure in one of the two pistons/cicuits so you can still stop. there are probably good demos on "how stuff works"

there are three main ways the circuits are hooked up, triangled (as above) diagnal (fr/rl and fl/rr) and front/rear (stock e21)

I had a look for triangled systems on the net and came up with nothing, so I should scan some diagrams out of the texts i have at home on this stuff but i really should get back to studing, im a recoving petrol head and this is my fix. going to uni and talking to people that arent interested in cars all day doesnt cut it lol.

[RetroBeemer]

RetroBeemer, did the e21 reservoir fit on the e12 MC?

This is the resevoir I used for now. I want to find one that doesn't look quite so ''used'' tbh. I used T-pieces in the hard lines too.

I've used EBC Green pads but I would like to try some carbon metallics.

I did a track day last Friday and I was pretty pleased with the way the brakes performed. I want to run some cooling ducts though.

[switlikbob]

Which reservoir is it?

[Greg323i]

That looks like standard euro E21 reservoir to me. I'm not sure what the federales reservoir looks like.

[jrcook320]

That looks like standard euro E21 reservoir to me. I'm not sure what the federales reservoir looks like.

we got the same one...

[Jester323]

This is the resevoir I used for now. I want to find one that doesn't look quite so ''used'' tbh. I used T-pieces in the hard lines too.

I've used EBC Green pads but I would like to try some carbon metallics.

I did a track day last Friday and I was pretty pleased with the way the brakes performed. I want to run some cooling ducts though.

You can get a new reservoir through mobile traditions, we can get them through Maximilian Importing here in the states, I just ordered a new one a few months back. Try your local dealer or Walloth & Nesch. FYI, a new reservoir comes with a new cap so you don't need to order a new cap... If anyone needs a new cap, I have a NOS one.

I picked up enough steel bundy brake line today to build completely new dual front lines from the MC down, my e12 MC should show up any day. I also picked up a flaring kit (a double flare kit works, just only do the first step to make a bubble flare, the second step makes a double flare) and a tubing bender, so I am almost set to put the setup together. Still need to pick up some sort of milling bit to slot the calipers, or find some sort of custom rotor... not sure if I'm going to get the adjustable proportioning valve or not, I might just see how the 323i OEM valve works first.

[jrcook320]

Still need to pick up some sort of milling bit to slot the calipers, or find some sort of custom rotor... not sure if I'm going to get the adjustable proportioning valve or not, I might just see how the 323i OEM valve works first.

Go forth, seek ye upward. There ye will find glory!!

(um, look at the 276mm mini cooper rotor option in post 17 )