Are you asking which one would be a better option between AEM FIC and MS, well i don't know enough about MS to compare the two but AEM FIC is for your late model cars and the one guy I knew who tried the install on a OBD II older model was not successful. Not sure if MS would allow advancing timing which is the only thing I would say I can not do.
Again I would think the AEM FIC is more user friendly than the MS but the new MS that's out or coming out I only seen it in a thread around here.
530i E60 Wizard of Nos Nitrous System/STS Rear Mounted Custom Turbo(PSI_unknown)
bump for updates
Hi!
Well done for the nice topic.
I am helping a friend with the tuning of a '98 E36 M3 3.2 turbo with F/IC.
We've already wired up the F/IC and all looks fine with the wiring. There is a little more mechanical work to be done, so we'll continue with tuning on the road.
I have one question. Looking at your base ignition map i see you have only 5 degrees of retard on 35PSI (~1.4 bar boost).
From what i've read on the net and also the recommended default setting for ignition map generation is to retard a degree for every PSI of boost. Or another example:
http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...d.php?t=217623
which says: "for 0.1-0.5 bar boost you retard 1 degree per 0.1bar after 0.5 bar you retard 2 degree per 0.1 boost so at 1 bar - 14 psi you must retard 20degrees to have no problems with detonation "
Using the above formulas safe retard value for 35 psi absolute MAP would be between -20 and -23
So is this ignition map working in real life? Are you using it at the moment?
Thanks in advance!
530i E60 Wizard of Nos Nitrous System/STS Rear Mounted Custom Turbo(PSI_unknown)
So e-manage can't retart timing but fic can do? is it true?
Last edited by bmmrr; 02-23-2010 at 06:52 AM.
It would be a good idea to learn a lot more on Tuning theory before you play with an engine. 20 degrees of retard per bar of boost definitely seems to be on the high side, then again I wouldn't just start out at 14+ psi boost if I didn't really know what I was doing.
A good way to start after you learn more about tuning is:
start at low boost(extra rich extra retarded), get the fuel correct, then work on slowly advancing the timing.
Increase boost and repeat.
I saw someone already asked but not a reply. As there are different versions of the same thing, which F/IC model did you use? As I'm currently using a digital UEGO and a 6cyl.(obviously..), as I assume you are too, I'd prob want the #30-4100, correct?
Nevermind, I took the 2 extra minutes and read up on the AEM site to see that there's only one F/IC that'll work, the F/IC-6, duh....
Do you remember how it was wired up? Do you have a schematic?
Last edited by calvino; 05-26-2010 at 11:29 PM. Reason: one too many....
I think I will buy my ems last until I see more results.
Sorry to dig such an old thread but do you know if the aem fic 8 will work on a e39 dme 7.1 or 7.2 i think. Hoping someone will know or better yet experience.
Thanks rito i nearly considered just supercharging but now back to turboing the e39. Thanks mate.
Last edited by zer0bmw; 08-25-2011 at 12:45 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
Untitled.pnghi Ritoab, i got everything up and going on my stock n/a obd2 with the fic-8. i tapped the cps as mag just for a signal for now on rpms. stock injectors and all. going to practice tuning while i have a stock setup and changes wont have over the top effects. anyways... would you share the 02 high and low volts for afr's?
Last edited by mtbdieter; 02-19-2012 at 06:45 PM.
Here is the guide I used for tuning. Well I didn't find this guide until several months or a year after I messed up the tune the first time. This works best assuming you are wired in properly. I suggest you copy and paste into a word document and save it for review later.
Tools needed
AEM FIC or other comparable piggy back *note you'll have to figure out how to do the things im speaking about with your own particular piggy back
Wideband
OBD2 scan tool. I used Equus innova 3130 obd2 scan tool with live data display.
Terms
Open loop: Not responding to feedback from o2 sensors, in a nut shell
Closed loop: ECU is responding to o2 sensor data and changes injector pulse widths to compensate for too rich or too lean condition.
STFT: Short term fuel trim. Short term percentage that the fuel system is adjusting injector pulse width times by in order to maintain 14.7 AFR, changes constantly in closed loop, not used in open loop. Resets when your car ignition is turned off! Not stored
LTFT: Long term fuel trim. Long term percentage changes in injector pulse width are stored in ecu memory as long as connected to 12v battery source. So that ecu doesn’t need to re-learn fuel trims every time on startup. It’s like a long term average of the STFT.
Okay first i assume you have installed the AEM FIC unit in your car correctly, and intercepted the correct wires according to the instructions, especially for the o2 sensors, and have wired in the 1k ohm 1/4w resistor as well in line with your o2 sensor as per instructions.
Question: Why do we want to change the o2 sensor voltage under mid load?
Answer: Some cars will be able to make boost before the car goes into Open loop, and if you have done any tuning at all, you'll know that 14.7 is too lean of an AFR when boost is coming on and needs to be a bit more rich. the problem is that the ecu is still in closed loop, so it’s going to try to keep an afr level of 14.7 AFR, we want it to be more rich, but can’t do it when the car is in closed loop. UNLESS we can modify the o2 sensor signal. So what we are going to do is essentially make the ecu think the car has gone lean (by adjusting the o2 sensor voltage) so then it will go rich to adjust. In order to know how much to adjust the o2 signal by in the mid load areas, we have to do a test. This test will be explained in the steps below.
Before you do the following steps
Draw a table on a piece of paper, or use MS Excel or word or whatever.
Make three columns. Title the columns as follows
Offset, AFR, STFT
Step 1: Adjust your fuel multiplier or percentages (AEM FIC) in the fuel map, so that if you changed injectors from stock, the STFT is as close to zero as you can get it. See above post on how to do this.
Step 2: In the FIC program, go to the setup system menu. Go to the O2 section and set the load input map, and set the mode to offset and input the high and low voltages. 1.0 For high 0 for low.
Step 3: set all values in the o2 map to zero.
Step 4: Bring engine to 2000 rpm.
Step 5: start by inputting a small negative voltage in entire row (or rows) around where you’re currently at 2000rpm on the o2 map. Such as -0.1 entering a value like this in offset mode will take your max voltage which we set to 1.0 and offset it by -0.1, so it will make the ecu think the o2 voltage is reading 0.9 volts.
Step 6: Keep your eye on AFR, record what the AFR is even if it didn’t change, into the table i told you to make above, along with the offset you have. And look at your obd2 scan tool and record what the STFT is, and also add it to that row.
Step 7: Repeat this for several offsets until you get to an afr of say 11.5 by changing the offset.
Your table will look something like this. **note i made these values up, so don't use them.
Code:
Offset AFR STFT (%)
0 14.7 0
-0.1 14.7 0
-0.2 13.5 5
-0.3 13.0 10
-0.35 12.5 15
-0.40 11.5 30
and so on.
Step 8: set your o2 tables back to zero. To erase any offsets you changed while doing our test.
Step 9: Now go in your o2 map, and go to the area right before where boost starts, on the FIC its around 12.5psi to 15psi (since they measure load in absolute value, where 14.7 psi equals 0psi on the gauge) And try inputting your offset that gave the afr you want in this area, say 12.5- 13.0. Highlight entire rows, i.e. all of 12.5 psi, all of 15 psi, and change value to say -0.3 (from my fake table above) to have an afr of 13.5 in this area. Then say we want afr of 11.5 from 17.5psi (which is really zero psi on your boost gauge in the FIC software), to 25psi (10 psi gauge), input -0.40 in those rows.
**You may have noticed a problem, you're saying well that’s great, but our STFT is high, so it’s going to affect out LTFT and our AFR is going to change again. You are correct; this is where it gets tricky.
Now we need to compensate for these richer afr's by adjusting the values in the AEM fic fuel table.
Step 10: Rev Car to 2000 rpm again at idle, and go into your fuel map. Start increasing the cells (in percent mode) by small percentages until your air fuel ratio stabilizes to where u want it (we said 13.0 at 12.5psi to 15 psi). If you just input the fuel trim of 11% that you noted on your obd2 scan tool, it would most likely be a bit rich, so start small, and work your way up to that percentage, in small increments.
Once you get the AFR dialed in via the fuel map, you want to check your obd2 scan tool to make sure your fuel trims are close to zero now. If they are not, you may have to repeat the previous steps, of playing with the o2 voltages, and fuel tables in order to zero out the fuel trims.
Think of it like a balance. If you adjust your o2 signal by some, you have to adjust your fuel map by some to try to get the STFT close to zero.
From the looks of your setup page you are way off on a lot of things.
Why do you have your maf clamp at 5.5volts, and I notice you are in logger rather then dual calibration mode which is different from how i have mind setup. Maybe you can explain where you got your setting ideas from. In my defense I haven't look at the updates and new settings on the AEM forum in forever so maybe something has change. However if you follow the guide I posted it's exactly how you'll tune with the FIC. Not sure if there is any difference with the 8 verses the 6
Last edited by ritoab; 02-21-2012 at 04:20 AM. Reason: Automerged Doublepost
530i E60 Wizard of Nos Nitrous System/STS Rear Mounted Custom Turbo(PSI_unknown)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thank you so much for that info ritoab.
I've started down the loooong path to turbo my 330ci, currently just researching which means how to tune our machines (rather than hardware and plumbing issues). This seems like such a difficult thing for our cars, but worsened by such a lack of sharing of knowledge from individusls who have cracked it, people seem unwilling to help prefering to keep it as a dark art. I especially tire of the youtube videos from europe of turboed E46, being driven around shaky cam style or on a dyno with shitty euro dance/trance music, why?? they're not informative nor are they classy, arty or cool . Anyway i digress, thanks again for more specific information.
I have my eye on the AEM F/IC 6 as a possible piggy back system, but i still have a lot of reading to get done including the following which arrived today:
E46 330Ci: Umnitza P46 Headlights + Custom LED Halos; Eagle Eye smoked taillights; LEDs fogs; M3 bonnet conversion; M-Sport Front & Rear bumper; Replica M3 mirrors: Rear lip spoiler; Carbon fibre strut brace; Aluminium rear strut brace; H&R Sway Bars; LSD 3.15 ratio; F30 front & rear Brembo BBK conversion; ECU Remap; F32 Front Seats; GROM Audio
Hi guys
I'm in the process of doing an SC install but can't find a wiring diagram/ecu for the ms45 DME anywhere.
I have WDS but it seems to conflict with other wiring diagrams I've seen.
Any help would be appreciated
Thankyou
Do I need tps connected for fic?
It appears to be a combination unit on the throttle pedal with dual output voltages?
Bump, any updates, more info please
e39 540i 6speed Supercharged,
E36 v8 m62 with m60 headers, Turbp HX-40 0.6-0.5bar or 9psi, custom exhaust & Turbo manifold, injectors 440cc, ECU Invent EMS-2, Mishimoto Intercooler and oilcooler, etc…
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