Is an electric fan worth the money?

[BenPRunkle]

Found this on zionsville's website:

Simply hanging a fan on a core is inefficient as airflow must be directed through the entire core area, not just directly in front of the fan. The latter approach limits the effectiveness of the core. Essentially, it reduces the core size to the diameter of the fan. Not to mention the fact that hanging a fan through the core will eventually fatigue the cooling tubes and lead to failure. The alloy (ABS Custom Plastic in our case) shroud in combination with the electric fan creates a low pressure area behind the radiator in order to pull air through the entire core surface. (The front of the core is exposed.) The concept is a refinement of the BMW design. Our kit features improved sealing of the shroud and increased air flow without the parasitic drag of an engine-driven fan.

Found this. . . wrong car, but we need something like this. I guess you just tap into the temp sensor on the radiator? But which wires to which wires using Spal parts.

[BenPRunkle]

I'm going to purchase the hardware sometime in the next week, and an old friend who has done this for decades is comming over to assist (he was bibed with beer & burgers today ) I'll take some pics, so we might have another DIY soon

Awesome!! A detailed wiring write up would be amazing.

I seriously can't wait.

[Jackcat559]

Thanks for the linkJason5driver It had a nice PDF with a wiring diagram.

BenPRunkle I look high and low last night for a DIY over in the e36 section. Thanks for finding it. It's definatly going to help.

[Jackcat559]

I was over at the dealer today, and stopped by the parts counter. They quoted me $192 for the fan clutch alone. BavAuto carries it for $97ish. I'm hopeing to get the new elec fan in for under $175 (including beer & burger bribe)

[Jason5driver]

I was over at the dealer today, and stopped by the parts counter. They quoted me $192 for the fan clutch alone. BavAuto carries it for $97ish. I'm hopeing to get the new elec fan in for under $175 (including beer & burger bribe)

Amen!
Are you going to buy from BimmerWorld?

Thanks!
Jason

[Jackcat559]

Think so. They have good customer service, knowledgable, and have the best price so far.

[BenPRunkle]

This may sound like a really random question, but does anybody know what type of plastic our fan shrouds are made out of? If its ABS then we can easily alter our stock fan shroud to perfectly fit the 16" electric fan and still maintain its structural integrity.

ABS will soften/melt when acetone is applied to it. I guess I will just have to test it if nobody knows. If somebody has one that is removed, it may have the material imprinted somewhere on the shroud.

[Jason5driver]

I think you might need a PWM to act as a relay...
http://www.carshopinc.com/product_in.../80397/FAN-PWM

[BenPRunkle]

Found these. . . I am sure this is the way to do it considering its what zionsville uses for their radiators. Since they use the exact same Spal fan im sure this would work great.

The only thing is to decide between the single and dual speed setup. I would probably just go with the single speed. The less wiring the better for me, and I would rather not have to deal with resistors and stuff.

I have heard on the I6 you can almost get away from using the fan except in stop and go traffic and stand stills.

1speed.JPG

2speed.JPG

I have also been thinking of a way to fabricate a custom fan shroud. The design would be fairly simple, but the only thing that complicates it is the expansion tank. You just have to make sure you have plenty of room between the shroud and the engine for the expansion tank to fit.

It could look something like the zionsville setup.



It may to overkill to build a new shroud, but I also found this site. . . kinda corny, but looks like a fun project.

[BenPRunkle]

Think so. They have good customer service, knowledgable, and have the best price so far.

Might be a little less expensive. . . fyi

www.carshopinc.com

bestprice.JPG

oh and shipping to Texas was $12.41

Pretty sure thats all the stuff you need.

[Jackcat559]

Yeah that is a nice savings.

Try to figure out what is the easiest way to tap a temp sensor in to the cooling system.


Also I found out that the M54 (and probably other newer engines) run a heater element in the t-stat, so there isn't a way to switch it out for a cooler one.

[jnyost]

I read somewhere that someone was using an e36 sensor as a trigger for a relay.

I'm going to do this same mod some time soon and probably develop a whole kit for purchase.

Jared

[BenPRunkle]

Try to figure out what is the easiest way to tap a temp sensor in to the cooling system.


Also I found out that the M54 (and probably other newer engines) run a heater element in the t-stat, so there isn't a way to switch it out for a cooler one.

Im not sure which sensor you tap into. . . radiator temp switch? Where is that? Assuming its attached to the radiator somewhere you would just tap into the appropriate wire coming from the sensor. According to Zionsville its the black/yellow one (pin 3). Any kind of wire tapping device would work.

Why would you want to change out the thermostat to a cooler one? The car is designed to run at a specific temp, the key is to make sure your cooling system is keeping it that temperature and everything should be fine. I have heard of people changing thermostats and it lowers performance on their car. The computers are programmed to run at a specific temp, I wouldnt mess with it.

I read somewhere that someone was using an e36 sensor as a trigger for a relay.

I'm going to do this same mod some time soon and probably develop a whole kit for purchase.

Jared

Sounds good. I really only think you need those two parts from my previous post. (Fan and relay) You would also need something to tap into the sensor with.

What I would like to see is a new fan shroud that is fabricated to hold the new electric fan that looks something like the zionville shroud. That thing looks super efficient. I will probably end up trying to make my own when the time comes.

[Jackcat559]

I was curious about running a colder t-stat because that was a solution the e36 guys used. I just like to review every possible idea, and find the best one before jumping into something

[BenPRunkle]

believe me. . . I am the same way.

p.s. your car is awesome . . .

[BenPRunkle]

I read somewhere that someone was using an e36 sensor as a trigger for a relay.

I'm going to do this same mod some time soon and probably develop a whole kit for purchase.

Jared

I was curious about running a colder t-stat because that was a solution the e36 guys used. I just like to review every possible idea, and find the best one before jumping into something

Either of you guys have a chance to jump into this and make any progress?

[Jason5driver]

Either of you guys have a chance to jump into this and make any progress?

I just bought the Spal electric fan and PWM relay.

I hope to be installing it with a new EMP Stewart water pump within the next month.

[Jackcat559]

Well swapping out the t-stat isn't possible. The e39 one has a built in heater element for some reason.

As far as the fan, I am trying not to use a mechanical, or an electric. The reasoning is that the e39's have the catalytic converters built into the exhaust manifolds. Which in turn put them in the engine compartment. Mine were taken out last year and moved to under the car when the headers were put in. There by lowering the engine bay temps drastically. Since then we have done a few other things to aid with cooling the engine compartment. None of which helps this thread unfortunatly.

Last weekend we did some testing without the mechanical inplace, with the A/C fully cranked, during mid-day in the sun. Altough it wasn't crazy hot out, the car did well at standing idle for 30 mins, and city traffic.

[jnyost]

Either of you guys have a chance to jump into this and make any progress?

I have not yet. Too many irons in the fire currently.

I just bought the Spal electric fan and PWM relay.

I hope to be installing it with a new EMP Stewart water pump within the next month.

Keep us updated Jason. Need the Stewart pump?

Well swapping out the t-stat isn't possible. The e39 one has a built in heater element for some reason.

As far as the fan, I am trying not to use a mechanical, or an electric. The reasoning is that the e39's have the catalytic converters built into the exhaust manifolds. Which in turn put them in the engine compartment. Mine were taken out last year and moved to under the car when the headers were put in. There by lowering the engine bay temps drastically. Since then we have done a few other things to aid with cooling the engine compartment. None of which helps this thread unfortunatly.

Last weekend we did some testing without the mechanical inplace, with the A/C fully cranked, during mid-day in the sun. Altough it wasn't crazy hot out, the car did well at standing idle for 30 mins, and city traffic.

I'm also think the V8s run too hot to be able to go this route. I think they'll still need a fan.

[BenPRunkle]

Well swapping out the t-stat isn't possible. The e39 one has a built in heater element for some reason.

As far as the fan, I am trying not to use a mechanical, or an electric. The reasoning is that the e39's have the catalytic converters built into the exhaust manifolds. Which in turn put them in the engine compartment. Mine were taken out last year and moved to under the car when the headers were put in. There by lowering the engine bay temps drastically. Since then we have done a few other things to aid with cooling the engine compartment. None of which helps this thread unfortunatly.

Last weekend we did some testing without the mechanical inplace, with the A/C fully cranked, during mid-day in the sun. Altough it wasn't crazy hot out, the car did well at standing idle for 30 mins, and city traffic.

Sounds very cool. . . I am interested in this as well. I'm sure its pretty expensive to go this route, but sounds like a cool project. Have any pics of your set up and under the car?

[Jason5driver]

Well swapping out the t-stat isn't possible. The e39 one has a built in heater element for some reason.

As far as the fan, I am trying not to use a mechanical, or an electric. The reasoning is that the e39's have the catalytic converters built into the exhaust manifolds. Which in turn put them in the engine compartment. Mine were taken out last year and moved to under the car when the headers were put in. There by lowering the engine bay temps drastically. Since then we have done a few other things to aid with cooling the engine compartment. None of which helps this thread unfortunatly.

Last weekend we did some testing without the mechanical inplace, with the A/C fully cranked, during mid-day in the sun. Altough it wasn't crazy hot out, the car did well at standing idle for 30 mins, and city traffic.

So, essentially, you are going the E36 route...???
Water-wetter, and so forth...

[Jason5driver]

Keep us updated Jason. Need the Stewart pump?

Why, yes, I do need the EMP Stewart WP...

[Jackcat559]

Sounds very cool. . . I am interested in this as well. I'm sure its pretty expensive to go this route, but sounds like a cool project. Have any pics of your set up and under the car?

It's taken a while to put the car together. The coated headers were put on for the benefit of the supercharger. Now they may have another benefit as well.

Not sure what your looking for from the underside of the car.









OOOPS! How did that get there

So, essentially, you are going the E36 route...???
Water-wetter, and so forth...

I'm gonna try. The system will be similar with a Stewart hi-flow water pump, no mech fan, new t-stat, probes, functioning aux fan, and probably water wetter. Initiial test lok good with the aux fan only kicking in occasionaly with a full taxed load.

[Camarok]

Cool thread started guys, read pretty much the whole thing. This is defiantly happening after spring gets here. Some things to think about.
The 540 does have an aux electric fan as well for aux cooling and A/C? ( not sure someone may have to correct me ) so my thought is that there is a back up system there for you to work with. Depending on DIY skill the relay with the Temp sensor sounds like a really good and pretty failsafe way to go about it. Mounting the Temp sensor seems to be key. Well as thrilos5 said

yes I used a relay and a BMW temp switch from an e36 M3 threaded into the thermostat housing, it looks like it came from the factory that way

Seeing as we are running plastic anyways, doesn't seem too bad. Well what if we go Metal housing ( that is available after market for the 540 right? ) It would be worth the money to have that tapped.
To my knowledge a temp sensor is a small on/off switch, when temp is reached per sensor ratings, the circuit is closed completing the circuit. Where do you complete it to? A relay, which is just a bigger switch. But it's a switch to a switch, turning on your fan.

A small MS Paint rendition of what you can do, to my knowledge this is what needs to be done. Please help if anything you see is wrong.

[Jackcat559]

Hey, also chack out this http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/...4%20Engine.pdf ,and go into the M54 cooling ystem. It mentions a fan mounted to the backside of the radiator.I was able to confirm this on my own Z4.

In August I took out the mechanical fan in the e39, and put in a Stewart water pump plus some water weter. There hasn't been any temp issues. Also the engine does rev with a little more easily