What oil meets BMW Spec's? What oil should I run?

[f355spider]

Thanks guys. I know many consider oil talk to be beating on a dead horse, but this is excellent info.

+1, Quattro Pete has posted up some very useful info, thank you.

[quattro PETE]

Glad to be of help once in a while, even though I don't frequent this forum as much anymore. But I'm not surprised to see this thread still being brought up to the surface every now and then. The subject of "which oil to use" will never die. It's quite fascinating, really. For example, there are boutique lubricants made from vegetables nowadays that rival group IV/V synthetics in terms of performance and resistance to degradation due to fuel dilution, high temps, etc. Granted, they won't make it onto BMW's approved oil list due to prohibitive costs of testing/certifications, but one day they may become more mainstream and then who knows... we may be putting Crisco 0w-20 in our 2025 BMWs.

[f355spider]

Castrol's US product data sheets have been crap lately. The 2.9 is the minimum required by SAE Xw-30 grade, so that's what they're reporting now. However, this 0w-30 meets ACEA A3, so if it meets ACEA A3 then its HT/HS must be at least 3.5 because that's what's required to meet this spec. A while back their spec sheets were more meaningful. Now they're fairly useless. The only reason we know it's still the same oil is because people continue to run VOA (virgin oil analysis) on it from time to time...

THAT is interesting. If Castrol would accurately publish the correct HTHS number I would be more inclined to use GC in my Ferrari. I just worry about such a low HTHS when the factory recommended Shell Ultra Helix 5w-40 is up around 3.7 or 3.8

[CSMBlack-540i]

For example, there are boutique lubricants made from vegetables nowadays that rival group IV/V synthetics in terms of performance and resistance to degradation due to fuel dilution, high temps, etc. .. we may be putting Crisco 0w-20 in our 2025 BMWs.

How about Beef tallow!

http://getg.com/engineOil/5W-30.php

[CSMBlack-540i]

After further research, it appears Group III oils are not inferior to Group IVs as it seems to be made out. Oil refining has come a long way and in some cases Group IIIs can be just as good or better than Group IV due to additives as Group IV does not take to additives as well as mineral based. It is also rumored Mobil 1 is 70% or more PAO. So given all the information garnered these few days, unless I can find Euro formulas more readily and close to the $4+ I pay for M1 5w30. I am sticking to it despite those who think I am better off with a true synthetic and LL-01 per European Standards.

More great reading for those who are interested in the the advancement of Group III oils:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...Number=1104963

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...oil-technology

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ase-oil-trends

[jnyost]

Group III oils shear faster, sludge easier, and their molecular structure is not as uniform. 99% of the time they don't do as well in UOAs as a PAO or Ester.

No one is trying to convince you to change your oil but as I've stated over and over.
Manufacturer specs are there for a reason. Everyone not running an oil that meets manufacturer specs should run UOAs.

[CSMBlack-540i]

Group III oils shear faster, sludge easier, and their molecular structure is not as uniform. 99% of the time they don't do as well in UOAs as a PAO or Ester.

No one is trying to convince you to change your oil but as I've stated over and over.
Manufacturer specs are there for a reason. Everyone not running an oil that meets manufacturer specs should run UOAs.

Thanks Jared, but you really think UOAs are necessary for my 5k/1yr whichever comes first, OCIs?

M1 with 70%+ PAO can be viewed as a 75% "true synthetic". Surely, it won't shear to below specs with such low OCIs.

[jnyost]

Thanks Jared, but you really think UOAs are necessary for my 5k/1yr whichever comes first, OCIs?

M1 with 70%+ PAO can be viewed as a 75% "true synthetic". Surely, it won't shear to below specs with such low OCIs.

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

You're still overlooking a lot of what I'm saying. Manufacturer's specs are not just about shear stability or TBN. Your oil will probably have plenty of TBN left after that OCI. It may still have decent viscosity, but what if there are other issues? You have no idea if your oil is really protecting your engine or if it is slowly eating itself. Without a UOA you can't see the wear numbers.

As I stated earlier, an oil is not just viscosity. Every good oil manufacturer will have several SKUs for the most popular viscosities. If we pick on M1 for instance, one of their 5w-30 blends may be fine but another may not. The same can be said for Total, Amsoil, Lubro, etc. They're each blended for different purposes.

Entire engines have been wiped because the wrong oil was used. I'm not saying you need regular UOAs, but do at least one or two to make sure you are ok. Chances are you'll be fine, but what if you're not and you see high wear numbers? Isn't a couple UOAs cheaper than a new engine? Is it worth risking your engine over a couple dollars on oil?

[CSMBlack-540i]

ABSOLUTELY!!!!

You're still overlooking a lot of what I'm saying. Manufacturer's specs are not just about shear stability or TBN. Your oil will probably have plenty of TBN left after that OCI. It may still have decent viscosity, but what if there are other issues? You have no idea if your oil is really protecting your engine or if it is slowly eating itself. Without a UOA you can't see the wear numbers.

As I stated earlier, an oil is not just viscosity. Every good oil manufacturer will have several SKUs for the most popular viscosities. If we pick on M1 for instance, one of their 5w-30 blends may be fine but another may not. The same can be said for Total, Amsoil, Lubro, etc. They're each blended for different purposes.

Entire engines have been wiped because the wrong oil was used. I'm not saying you need regular UOAs, but do at least one or two to make sure you are ok. Chances are you'll be fine, but what if you're not and you see high wear numbers? Isn't a couple UOAs cheaper than a new engine? Is it worth risking your engine over a couple dollars on oil?

Thanks. Understood. Will get Blackstone labs analysis next go round.

In the end, it is not about using spec'd oil then, it's more about UOA for each members' personal usage patterns because even something within spec can have bad UOA reports and with ever changing formulations, one should probably get UOAs more often than one would think.

[chiefwej]

Group III oils shear faster, sludge easier, and their molecular structure is not as uniform. 99% of the time they don't do as well in UOAs as a PAO or Ester.

No one is trying to convince you to change your oil but as I've stated over and over.
Manufacturer specs are there for a reason. Everyone not running an oil that meets manufacturer specs should run UOAs.

I run GC, (which is a highly rated BMW LL-01 oil) and still use UOA's to confirm my change intervals (currently 7,500 miles).

[quattro PETE]

I had GC analyzed after 10K miles in my 530i... lab's conclusion was that it needed to be changed at that point, but wear was still low. It's just that TAN was creeping up, indicating increasing acidity.

[chiefwej]

I had GC analyzed after 10K miles in my 530i... lab's conclusion was that it needed to be changed at that point, but wear was still low. It's just that TAN was creeping up, indicating increasing acidity.

UAO's have confirmed 10k is OK, but I now use 7.5k just to allow a safe margin.

[chiefwej]

Well it's time for me to eat my words. I've said many times that I have never seen any LL-01 oil sold at any Walmart ever. I just got home from my local Wally-world and they do indeed now have a shelf stocked with Mobil-1 0w40 Euro Car oil at $6.57 as a regular price. Still no GC though.

[CSMBlack-540i]

Thanks. I 'll check Wally-world again next time. $6.57 is better then the $8.49 at Advanced Auto and even then they usually only have 4-5 quarts at a time.

[NNY528I]

Well it's time for me to eat my words. I've said many times that I have never seen any LL-01 oil sold at any Walmart ever. I just got home from my local Wally-world and they do indeed now have a shelf stocked with Mobil-1 0w40 Euro Car oil at $6.57 as a regular price. Still no GC though.

[quattro PETE]

Well it's time for me to eat my words. I've said many times that I have never seen any LL-01 oil sold at any Walmart ever. I just got home from my local Wally-world and they do indeed now have a shelf stocked with Mobil-1 0w40 Euro Car oil at $6.57 as a regular price. Still no GC though.

Don't feel bad. My local China Mart never stocked M1 0w-40 and they still don't. But I know some of them do. Not sure who makes these decisions... I guess local store managers.

As for GC, it was never sold at Walmarts in the US. It is sold at Walmarts in Canada though, from what I've heard.

[golf pro]

Hello Addam,
Per below our on-line Oil Recommend Tool, Mobil 1 0W-40 is the best choice
for youe car. And when you feel the engine power get less than B4 or find
lube oil consumption coming up, it's the time to use Mobil 1 5W-50 which is
more suitable for vehicles with high milage. Hope this helps.

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The following inquiry was sent through:
Brand:
First Name: Addam
Last Name: Smith
Position Title:
E-mail: a.smithgolfpro@gmail.com
Company:
Address:
Country: Australia
Phone:
Fax:
Current Customer: Yes
Question:
Hi There
I own a BMW e39 535i Sports 2000 Model. I have had my oil changed two times
by two different mechanics on the Gold Coast in Australia. I requested
Mobil one that meets my cars standard request and both times I have had
Mobil one 5w-50 added to my engine and told it was the right oil. But after
lots of studying I have been told Mobil 1 0w-40 is the Oil I should be
using can you please tell me what is right.
Thank you
Addam smith

[VVT4ME]

Doug,

Ever since the Kaboom! incidents with the 2001 and some 2002 E46 M3s, BMW has changed their stance on the 10W50 (which was the recommended oil in both the E39 M5 and the M3 at the time) and now only recommends Castrol TWS 10W60 for all "M" vehicles. Now that Total is shutting down the Elf Oil line and also updating both of their websites, I see that they have dropped both the Porche and the M approvals from the info about the 10W50. I dont know why, they havent changed the formula of the oil but also I would not run the 10W50 in an "M" vehicle but it works very well in my 540i. If you look around the internet at online suppliers of the Elf oil who have not recently updated their site you will see what I am talking about for example:

http://www.europeanautosource.com/pr...roducts_id=987

or here:

http://www.rmeuropean.com/index.asp?...OD&ProdID=1944

I hope this helps.

Nick

Sorry to dig up an old post, but are you referring to ALL M vehicles, or just the newer ones like the S54 equipped E46 M3 and newer? I was going to try Total 10w50 in my S52 equipped 1997 M3, because i wanted a heavier oil to guard against lifter tick after occasional autocross runs..i currently run Euro Castrol 0w30.

Bump ^^^^^

Sent from my POS android phone using BF.com

[Kredithai]

About oil filters, should I stick with Mann, or are the alternatives at least halfway decent?

[quattro PETE]

About oil filters, should I stick with Mann, or are the alternatives at least halfway decent?

Considering how inexpensive the OEM Mann/Mahle/Knecht filters are, I don't really see a reason to experiment with other brands. None of those other brands are any cheaper either.

[Kredithai]

Yeah, you're right. I couldn't bring myself to try anything other than OEM. My inquiry was more along the lines of acceptable subsitutes, because only Advance Auto bothers to sell Mann, and I dont expect them to have it readily available all the time.

[dtass1970]

Why is the BMW M twin oil not on the list?

[Shelley73]

I use full synthetic 5 w 30