v2.0 413 Tuning thread

[eficker]

I dont think ostrich has its own software outside of drivers. Tunerpro does all the work.

[a32guy]

Thinking of going back to stock ECU. Might get wild and buy a P-car MAF / Bosch 803 !

[SiGmA]

Get it via a friend with a WorldPac account. $226.

[wulfgang]

Thinking of going back to stock ECU. Might get wild and buy a P-car MAF / Bosch 803 !

So can you give us your critique of the Autronic? What did you like/not like?

[a32guy]

So can you give us your critique of the Autronic? What did you like/not like?

I definitely like it. Coming from a megasquirt car of two years, I can tell you the precision kicks the shit out of MS, along with tons more I/O and options. I just got 23.8 mpg going up to Boston and back to CT with NO o2 sensor feedback configured.

As for other real standalones-- I recently tuned a Haltech E8 with their new beta software, as well as messed with a LinkPlus G2. I can honestly say the Autronic was the easiest to tune of all of them. Haltech came in dead last, that thing was very unfriendly, then LinkPlus because of its very very slow connection (but the software wasn't terrible).

With the SM4, I'd do a pull on the dyno, check the logs, and follow with the cursor in the logs as it showed which cells it hit at that time frame. Very helpful. Autronic also has some nice features to lock cells and mark cells for different reasons. (Say to lock one after you've tuned it dead on).

Only thing I have to work on is cold start. Once it turns over it idles buttery smooth. I just haven't put much work into it. Reason I want to go to stock ECU is that I'm confident in my OBD1 tuning ability and if I can sell the SM4 as a plug and play, thats another $2500 in my pocket. And at the end of my college carrier, I could use the cash!

[timmytimm3]

Reason I want to go to stock ECU is that I'm confident in my OBD1 tuning ability and if I can sell the SM4 as a plug and play, thats another $2500 in my pocket. And at the end of my college carrier, I could use the cash!

I could use a confident ODB1 tuner in about a year

[325icintn]

...I just got 23.8 mpg going up to Boston and back to CT with NO o2 sensor feedback configured.

Running lean?

Reason I want to go to stock ECU is that I'm confident in my OBD1 tuning ability and if I can sell the SM4 as a plug and play, thats another $2500 in my pocket. And at the end of my college carrier, I could use the cash!

If you do this, please let us know about how you took the autronic tuning file to create a bin for the Bosch. It would be great if you could simply copy the numbers with a simple converion factor into the bin maps.

[wulfgang]

With the SM4, I'd do a pull on the dyno, check the logs, and follow with the cursor in the logs as it showed which cells it hit at that time frame. Very helpful. Autronic also has some nice features to lock cells and mark cells for different reasons. (Say to lock one after you've tuned it dead on).

That is very cool. Thanks for the synopsis.

[b18cls1]

Running lean?
If you do this, please let us know about how you took the autronic tuning file to create a bin for the Bosch. It would be great if you could simply copy the numbers with a simple converion factor into the bin maps.

the sm4 file cannot be converted to a bin, the autronics use a ve based fuel map so his fuel map numbers shaould all be very close to eachother plus its speed density

[eficker]

Have we found out how to disable ews yet?

[Macmep]

OK, guys please explain to me:

I plug Ostrich 2.0 into my OBDI Bosch Motronic 3.1 EPROM socket,
plug in an EEPROM ontop of the Ostrich socket,
and now with the help of Tuner Pro and a defenition file I can flash new bins, tune on the fly, datalog, etc.???

[rennteknik]

you cant tune on the fly per se..

you have to bump the bin up to ostrich each time you make a change..

also there is no data logging or tracing yet.. it is possible though if someone can reverse engineer the code on the chip..

if you want to data log search for "lab jack" in here.. there is a nice article on setting up something that will have the ability to log at a good sample rate.

[eficker]

OK, guys please explain to me:

I plug Ostrich 2.0 into my OBDI Bosch Motronic 3.1 EPROM socket,
plug in an EEPROM ontop of the Ostrich socket,
and now with the help of Tuner Pro and a defenition file I can flash new bins, tune on the fly, datalog, etc.???

The capability for doing everything you have asked is there, but the application is not. The honda guys can do live trace, log, live tune, etc., but they're software is pretty developed. But all it takes is one or three people with the knowledge and motivation and this can work for our cars too.

The ostrich replaces the chip. Most people tune with the ostrich (avoid re-burning and re-installing a new chip everytime you make a change) then when the tune is done, burn a chip and put that in. You can also leave the ostrich in if you so choose.

[b18cls1]

on hondas there is spot on the board where you get the datalogging info off of, its not through the emulator.

[Macmep]

Thanks for the replies, It's not as easy as I thought...
So what chip exactly do our cars use anyway? I'm asking because I would rather get AutoProm over Ostrich, but only ostrich 2.0 will work with Motronic 3.1 right?

[badmonkey]

Have we found out how to disable ews yet?

You don't need software to delete EWS, just delete the module, consult wiring schematics.

..

[eficker]

on hondas there is spot on the board where you get the datalogging info off of, its not through the emulator.

Right, i was talking more about the software that handles all that. Crome, or the like.

[eficker]

Okay, so i finally got tunerpro working. Now, all i see in the mapping (according the xdf posted above) is tables that are full of FF values.

What is the trick to finding the tables? Or can someone post or email me a bin that works with that xdf? Do you have to use the bin that came with your dme, or can you swap them around?

I'm happy to help out (read pay) someone that can help me get this working with the right xdf, bin, etc. I'll be on the dyno later this month and would like the ability to make some changes.

TIA

[Keaton]

also there is no data logging or tracing yet.. it is possible though if someone can reverse engineer the code on the chip..

ok, ok ,ok i'm good now
several of us have tried including myself (i was after the 402 code as well)

Okay, so i finally got tunerpro working. Now, all i see in the mapping (according the xdf posted above) is tables that are full of FF values.

What is the trick to finding the tables? Or can someone post or email me a bin that works with that xdf? Do you have to use the bin that came with your dme, or can you swap them around?

I'm happy to help out (read pay) someone that can help me get this working with the right xdf, bin, etc. I'll be on the dyno later this month and would like the ability to make some changes.

TIA

each BIN file is going to be different due to bad sectors in the 27c512. so that XDF file posted above wont necessarily work for your BIN. also you have to set the size of the BIN file in Tunerpro (Ctrl+F2)

[techno550]

Okay, so i finally got tunerpro working. Now, all i see in the mapping (according the xdf posted above) is tables that are full of FF values.

What is the trick to finding the tables? Or can someone post or email me a bin that works with that xdf? Do you have to use the bin that came with your dme, or can you swap them around?

I'm happy to help out (read pay) someone that can help me get this working with the right xdf, bin, etc. I'll be on the dyno later this month and would like the ability to make some changes.

TIA

This is why we don't hand out XDF's. The information is there for you to make an XDF that works with your bin. You need to understand the format.

[325icintn]

This is why we don't hand out XDF's. The information is there for you to make an XDF that works with your bin. You need to understand the format.

Mike's right. It doesn't make sense for those who did the work to spend more time modifying xdf's for everyone's different bins. The basics are the same, and the modifications will be easy once you understand. If you already have an xdf, it should be easy for you to figure out the format with the help of this thread, spot the tables in your bin, and modify the xdf accordingly.

If it's not worth it for you, then I suggest you purchase a TRM turbo kit with TRM tuning. AAA rating in my book.

[techno550]

Mike's right. It doesn't make sense for those who did the work to spend more time modifying xdf's for everyone's different bins. The basics are the same, and the modifications will be easy once you understand. If you already have an xdf, it should be easy for you to figure out the format with the help of this thread, spot the tables in your bin, and modify the xdf accordingly.

If it's not worth it for you, then I suggest you purchase a TRM turbo kit with TRM tuning. AAA rating in my book.

didn't you post one of the XDF's in this thread?

The point goes beyond just being able to access the tables. modifying them in the XDF is ONLY modifying the basic data. If you don't understand the format, then you won't be able to modify the RPM break points and such. if you can't do that, you're still pretty limited.

If you can modify an XDF, you can make an XDF, which is why everyone should make their own XDF. Perhaps if the community gets to the point where its widely understood and *someone* writes an editor that also does the load and RPM stuff, that could be shared. The 413 isn't globally understood well enough yet. Working with the 413 is still a very hands on problem, and I still do an awful lot with it in a hex editor.

[325icintn]

El Bob posted one. I posted Dredder's xdf.

[wulfgang]

each BIN file is going to be different due to bad sectors in the 27c512. so that XDF file posted above wont necessarily work for your BIN. also you have to set the size of the BIN file in Tunerpro (Ctrl+F2)

I'm not convinced that is true. Sure, the 402 will have different map locations than the 413, but I have not seen any two OEM bins from say a 93-95 325 5-speed that are actually DIFFERENT.

I also know there are a few bins floating around that have been modified so that the pointers do not line up, and those don't count because they probably won't even run a car. Likewise, it's not fair to use a tuner's chip to say that everything is different because the tuners could have changed the locations.

If you start with an OEM bin from a 413 and use someone else's XDF that was made with an OEM bin from the same car/DME variant, then I see no problems.

[Ichbinsobose]

I can send you 4 bins all pulled from STOCK OEM cars that match your description that are all different. This is a widely known fact. Some things may match up but there are at least that many variations.

I know a good bit about the car side of tuning but I am embarrassingly under education in the hex/code tracing side of things. I am planning to learn a good bit more in the coming months. There should be a way to make the same "map finder" BS that the shark edit guys were chortling about, but free. There are tools like "Map Finder" and "map hunter" that do similar things but in a much less user friendly way. I think the end goal of everyones attempts is to eventually have something that an above average intelligent car user can pick up no problem and run with, along the lines of stuff available for other cars. Complete spoonfeeding software is unnecessary, but right now we have NOTHING that can be used by everybody on every car with the 413.

If at least a COMPLETE dump of ALL the maps and info from the 413 code could be had then if a single perfect detailed mapping of one bin could be used for all applications without concern for what "stock" bin came on the 413. But I don't know if anyone at all has access to ALL the info on the 413. I have been shown a TON of info by more knowing people, but even that is nowhere near complete. Enough to "tune" by, but still a far cry from it one day will be.