335xi 6mt 1st-to-2nd grind (in cold weather)

[bobwagner]

Can any of you manual transmissions experts out there help me with this one?

I occasionally experience grinding when going from 1st into 2nd. This usually happens when I'm shifting at high RPMs but also occasionally happens at low RPMs as well. I'm fairly certain that I'm disengaging the clutch completely as I sit extremely close to the pedals for that purpose. I've never had this problem before on any of my previous MT cars. Also, I only have a bit over 3000 miles on my bimmer so I doubt that it's worn synchros.

So any ideas? Thanks, y'all.

[grubster]

I actually had 1 grind in 11,000 miles on my '07 335 E92 yesterday, temp was literally 5 degrees F and the car was only running about 2-3 minutes and I had to make a quick shift from 1st to 2nd and cars were coming. Try not rushing your shifts, pull the stick slower, mayber your car isn't warmed up when you are doing it.. Usually it happening once in a rare occassion is no big deal and won't hurt anything, but if it keeps happening, take the car in.

[Beer Goggles]

Most cars when they are cold will have trouble shifting, if the problem goes away after 30 minutes of driving it's probably temp related.

[bobwagner]

Yea, it has been awfully cold around here. I hope it's a temp related issue like you guys have suggested. Thanks for the advice.

[mryakan]

Yea, it has been awfully cold around here. I hope it's a temp related issue like you guys have suggested. Thanks for the advice.

We've hit 0-F and below many times this winter and I have not had any issues shifting. I have a 323 not a 335 so not sure if that makes a difference, but not to offend you in any way, I'd still try to rule out user error if I were you. I have had it grind a couple of times before (at high and low rpm) but that was purely my fault as I misshifted, and I can tell I did *smack myself on the back of the head*.
Get a friend who has been driving manual for a while to try it out or take it in to the dealer and get them to take it for a test drive if you are really concerned.

[Beer Goggles]

Really cold weather should make it harder to shift, every car I've had you can feel the movement slow down until the tranny is at operating temp. I'm thinking if you're at Redline and trying to shift that it's shift where you are trying to do quick. The fluid slows stuff down. No way it can't be like that.

[deems]

I agree with the other posters on the box being stiff when it's cold because the tranny oil is thick.

Have you tried double clutching when it's cold? That helps a lot.

[mryakan]

Really cold weather should make it harder to shift, every car I've had you can feel the movement slow down until the tranny is at operating temp. I'm thinking if you're at Redline and trying to shift that it's shift where you are trying to do quick. The fluid slows stuff down. No way it can't be like that.

I agree with the other posters on the box being stiff when it's cold because the tranny oil is thick.

Have you tried double clutching when it's cold? That helps a lot.

I hope he is not redlining it when the car is not warmed up yet, that is very bad for the engine, transmission and everything else, esp. at very low temps. That being said, I personally had no temp related clutch/shifting issues when changing gears in very low temps at low/moderate revs with the engine/transmission still below normal operating temps, nor at high revs after the have warmed up. YMMV though, so I don't know!

[bobwagner]

We've hit 0-F and below many times this winter and I have not had any issues shifting. I have a 323 not a 335 so not sure if that makes a difference, but not to offend you in any way, I'd still try to rule out user error if I were you. I have had it grind a couple of times before (at high and low rpm) but that was purely my fault as I misshifted, and I can tell I did *smack myself on the back of the head*.
Get a friend who has been driving manual for a while to try it out or take it in to the dealer and get them to take it for a test drive if you are really concerned.

It's impossible to rule out error on my part but after the first time it happened, I've been very careful about shifting from 1-to-2. I've been driving stick for 5 years now and I haven't had this issue until now. I'm just gonna take it a bit slower now, especially in cold weather, and see how it goes. Hopefully it's just me though...I'd hate to have it be a car problem! Thanks for all the input, guys.

[bobwagner]

I agree with the other posters on the box being stiff when it's cold because the tranny oil is thick.

Have you tried double clutching when it's cold? That helps a lot.

Yea, I've heard that as well...will try that too.

[Uberdude328i]

On the rare occasion that I do grind a gear, its usually because I've gotten used to engaging the clutch as I shift so that by the time it snicks into gear, my foot is already off the pedal. Sounds weird but I move my arm and foot in one motion, not two. Point is, sometimes my foot leaves the pedal too early and I'm basically trying to slam the tranny into gear. Pay close attention to your movements. It may just be a cold grabby clutch.

[Jhunter]

This morning as I was leaving home, I shifted (MT) into 2nd for the first time and got a grinding noise and feel through the stick as it was going into gear. At first I thought maybe I did not have the clutch in far enough (but I am sure I did). A minute later I had to make the shift again so I made sure the clutch was to the floor. It made the noise and feel again. There was no problem getting into the gear. After doing this twice, every other shift was fine and smooth as always. It was about 9 degrees F out and the car had been sitting for two days.

Anyone else ever experience this? Think this was just an isolated event with the cold weather as a contributing factor?

[LINE070]

Yes I experienced this in my Evo when I had it. It's due to the cold temperatures and the tranny fluid being so cold. give it some time to warm up and all your shifts should be smooth.

[neapolitan]

It sounds as if you are engaging the dog teeth before the synchros are able to do their job matching the layshaft and engine speeds. Either that, or you are powering the layshaft during the shift by not completely engaging the clutch.

Try shifting a bit slower -- engage the clutch fully at the end of first, back off the gas, and push the stick very gently into second. You'll feel resistance, then a "plop" as it falls into gear. Don't push through the resistance or you will grind. The synchros will be less effective in cold weather as the engagement metal is less deformable.

A picture is worth a thousand words, so if you don't understand the inner workings of a MT go to howstuffworks.com. Here is the link:

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission.htm

I start and drive my car in subzero weather short distances every day with no gear griding, even when cold. I've grinded twice, both times my fault...

[Beer Goggles]

Ummm we don't drive race cars, the only "dog cut gears" are in reverse (which is why it's hard to get into R) all the other gears are spiral cut. Cold fluid can slow the syncro...which causes you to grind.

[neapolitan]

Had to unblock you to see your post, and was pleasantly surprised! Honestly, I don't feel like arguing if you do not understand. You are right, yes, cold fluid can slow the synchro, especially as it floats unpowered for that brief instant you pass through neutral before you engage the second gear.

However, the OP's engagement gears are mismatching, not power gears. Regardless of the reason, the individual's synchros are not fully equalizing speed before the engagement gears hit (from your post it is not clear if you understand the difference between the power link, which are indeed spiral cut and constantly meshed, and the engagement gears (which CAN be spiral cut, but are referred as dog teeth by all engineers and mechanics that I know.)

To all readers, one day if you get the chance, ask to see the block / lock ring synchro assembly on a MT tranny if you are friends with a mechanic disassembling an engine. You will see exactly what I mean -- probably some of the best education I've gotten regarding cars is from actually seeing the whole thing filet-ed apart. You can see the damage to the dog teeth from repeated gear grinding, and which gears are ground more than others (1 and 2). You can also see the synchro engagement mechanism.

If your synchro collars are slipping due to a slow layshaft and need time to get up to speed, you can avoid grind by *fully engaging the gear a bit more slowly* which was what I was saying in my post. If you slip a synchro, it will give a much different sound, kind of a higher pitched "bzzzztttt", (you can try it under power, e.g. with clutch not fully engaged -- you will hear this sound right before the grind. Try it on a beater!) If you push harder, it will make the familiar really harsh sound as the "gears grind." What I am saying is don't push so hard/fast that you get the gears griding before the synchro can do its job to match the speeds.

To the OP - if you were referring to the synchro engagement process, and that very slight buzzing with shifts, then no, there is not much you can do about that until the tranny fluid is warming up, short of perfectly matching your revs. But, you shouldn't hear the loud gears grinding / feeling the lever vibrating -- that can be easily avoided...

Impossible to tell you specifics without sitting next to you, but understanding all of the theory helps IMHO, and you can talk to your mechanics in a much more specific tone. Get an expert to take a drive with you and, like mryakan said, find out if it is user error... Good luck!

[nauticabri]

I've also noticed something similar that I was thinking about taking the car in for. All gears are butter smooth except going into 2nd (1st to 2nd and even 3rd to 2nd) it just goes in rough and hard... It definitely is cold so I dont know if its related to that, also the car only has 2k on it so everything is new and tight...

[sleeeper]

I dont think it is your imagination. My car often resists going into 2nd, and it is worse when the temp is below 30F or the car is not warmed up. I wondered if it is my car or just the way it is, and I do so much freeway driving that it is not a constant nuisance. Just doesn't seem right, and I have thought about reporting it.

[Beer Goggles]

guys read the posts. A transmission just like anything else as an operating temp. If its not up to temp (cold fluid) it won't operate correctly. Think of cold syrup in your tranny it won't move fast.

Syncros can go bad, but most of you are describing cold fluid symptoms. I had an a4 and until the tranny warmed I had to almost force it into second. And also remember that it won't heat up until you are moving

[deems]

I had a Mercedes E class that did this many years ago and I talked to my service advisor about it.

He told me the tranny holds 1st gear longer when cold to help everything warm up faster. Higher revs = more heat. It could be that the same thing is happening here.

[brokenarrow32]

Old thread BUT, Did you ever figure out your problem or fix it?