Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 26 to 50 of 53

Thread: E46 M3 Oil

  1. #26
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL.
    Posts
    95,176
    My Cars
    2020 X3M Competition
    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    If 10w 60w is so good why can't you buy it from anyone else but dealers and a few shops like Turner Motorsports? Castrol makes a damn good 10W40w synthec for 1/2 the price. IMO it's a money making scam. Change the oil & filter sooner than BMW wants you too.
    Money making scam? Right...

    The 10w-60 is only available from BMW and BMW enthusiast organizations because there simply is not enough demand for 10w-60 oil to keep it on the shelves of your local discount auto parts. Other manufacturer's don't make the blend because there just is not enough demand for it. Only BMW uses the oil, and specifically, only the M3/M5/M6 line.

    BMW went to Castrol and asked them for an oil that would meet the requirements of their engine and Castrol answered back with the 10w-60. You can put 10w-40 in your engine and change it every other day... it still won't have the lubrication properties necessary to keep an S54 motor from grenading itself with prolonged use at 8000rpm.

    It's your motor... do as you wish, but I highly recommend the use of 10W-60 oil. I would think that if you spent all the money on the car, paying for the oil changes shouldn't be a problem.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  2. #27
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    NJ
    Posts
    2,863
    My Cars
    Smurf Mobiles
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Money making scam? Right...

    The 10w-60 is only available from BMW and BMW enthusiast organizations because there simply is not enough demand for 10w-60 oil to keep it on the shelves of your local discount auto parts. Other manufacturer's don't make the blend because there just is not enough demand for it. Only BMW uses the oil, and specifically, only the M3/M5/M6 line.

    BMW went to Castrol and asked them for an oil that would meet the requirements of their engine and Castrol answered back with the 10w-60. You can put 10w-40 in your engine and change it every other day... it still won't have the lubrication properties necessary to keep an S54 motor from grenading itself with prolonged use at 8000rpm.

    It's your motor... do as you wish, but I highly recommend the use of 10W-60 oil. I would think that if you spent all the money on the car, paying for the oil changes shouldn't be a problem.
    /thread & debate


  3. #28
    Join Date
    Oct 2007
    Location
    Cincinnati, Oh
    Posts
    97
    My Cars
    2001 M3, 1999 328i
    It's your motor... do as you wish, but I highly recommend the use of 10W-60 oil. I would think that if you spent all the money on the car, paying for the oil changes shouldn't be a problem.
    I second your notion, if you can afford an E46, you can certainly afford the oil for it.

  4. #29
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ligonier, PA
    Posts
    100
    My Cars
    325XI, 325I, M3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    BMW went to Castrol and asked them for an oil that would meet the requirements of their engine and Castrol answered back with the 10w-60. You can put 10w-40 in your engine and change it every other day... it still won't have the lubrication properties necessary to keep an S54 motor from grenading itself with prolonged use at 8000rpm.

    And you know this as a fact? How? I don't know anyone one even racing that keeps their car at 8k!

    It's your motor... do as you wish, but I highly recommend the use of 10W-60 oil. I would think that if you spent all the money on the car, paying for the oil changes shouldn't be a problem.
    Money is not the real issue here is it? But it is like using a aftermarket brake disc to an OEM brake disc. They do the same job just one is 1/2 the price of the other. I talked to a number of techs that are friends, they told me to use the 10w 40w. Lets agree that we disagree, unless you can come up with some proof.
    Dan Jones

    "life is tough, it's tougher if your stupid"

  5. #30
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Pensacola, FL
    Posts
    194
    My Cars
    Int. Blue '07 M5 (6MT)
    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    Money is not the real issue here is it? But it is like using a aftermarket brake disc to an OEM brake disc. They do the same job just one is 1/2 the price of the other. I talked to a number of techs that are friends, they told me to use the 10w 40w. Lets agree that we disagree, unless you can come up with some proof.
    Devil's Advocate-

    Wouldn't that be like using aftermarket brakes that were a size too small--i.e. they'd work in a lot of situations, but wouldn't be there for you in a pinch?

    If you don't drive the car hard and you plan on getting rid of it before it gets too old, you probably won't have any problems. If you do keep the car long term, let us know how it works out. I'm curious how/if the wear and tear will vary from using 10w60.

  6. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    832
    My Cars
    11 550 Sport Pkg, 08 X5
    Not that it matters but i have been running 10w60TMS in my e36 m3 for the past year now and it has made a HUGE difference... I dont consume near as much oil as i have in the past... Worth the extra couple bucks for me hands down...
    98 E36 M3 Sedan (Sold)
    08 E60 550 M Sport Package (Sold)
    12 F10 535 M Sport Package (Sold)
    11 F10 550 M Sport Package (Current)
    08 E70 X3 3.0si (Current)
    97 E36 M3 (Track Car in progress)

  7. #32
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL.
    Posts
    95,176
    My Cars
    2020 X3M Competition
    Quote Originally Posted by cpcalkins View Post
    Not that it matters but i have been running 10w60TMS in my e36 m3 for the past year now and it has made a HUGE difference... I dont consume near as much oil as i have in the past... Worth the extra couple bucks for me hands down...
    You see less oil consumption because the thicker oil can't escape out through any oil leaks you may have or get past the piston rings. It's a band aid for another larger problem. However, the thicker oil may not be making it to tight clearances as needed because of 'ramping up' because it's too thick.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  8. #33
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ligonier, PA
    Posts
    100
    My Cars
    325XI, 325I, M3
    Quote Originally Posted by cpcalkins View Post
    Not that it matters but i have been running 10w60TMS in my e36 m3 for the past year now and it has made a HUGE difference... I dont consume near as much oil as i have in the past... Worth the extra couple bucks for me hands down...
    How often do you change your oil & filter? Do a leak down test and let me know what it is.
    Dan Jones

    "life is tough, it's tougher if your stupid"

  9. #34
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL.
    Posts
    95,176
    My Cars
    2020 X3M Competition
    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    Money is not the real issue here is it? But it is like using a aftermarket brake disc to an OEM brake disc. They do the same job just one is 1/2 the price of the other. I talked to a number of techs that are friends, they told me to use the 10w 40w. Lets agree that we disagree, unless you can come up with some proof.
    Well... without devoting my free time to researching too much numerical proof, here are the differences between 10w-40 oil versus the 10w-60 oil that I was able to quickly find.

    10w-40 / 10w-60

    Viscosity (thickness) at 40 deg C = 98.16 / 163.10
    Viscosity (thickness) at 100 deg C = 14.71 / 24.30

    That's a huge difference in thickness at 242 deg F and considering oil temperatures can get up to 300 deg F, that would make me think that the 10w-60 oil would be required. Now all this is moot if you don't drive your car hard enough to get the oil temperature up that high. If you drive easy and your oil temperate barely gets up to temperature, you could use a lesser oil... could even go down as far as 5w-30 or even lesser yet, 5w-20.

    I can tell you this... three pulls on a dyno with 5w-30 vs. 10w-60 will show a net gain of probably 5-6hp, but after three pulls with 5w-30, your oil temperature will be at or very close to 300 deg F. Also extended heavy foot usage on a hot day will also show oil temperatures in the 260+ range. Some guys will even hit 300 on the track and are looking for better oil coolers to help keep the oil temperatures down.

    All of the above knowledge is personal opinion (except for the viscosity ratings), so I'll leave it at that and agree to disagree.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  10. #35
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    832
    My Cars
    11 550 Sport Pkg, 08 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    How often do you change your oil & filter? Do a leak down test and let me know what it is.

    I change my oil and filter every 5000 miles and both compression and leakdown were fine... Compression was 210 across all cylinders and leakdown was less than 5%... All this on a motor with 140k miles... I usually have to put in one qt between oil changes but my M is a daily driver and sees on average 20k miles a year... I do admit i started using a little more oil after my eurosport cam kit install...
    98 E36 M3 Sedan (Sold)
    08 E60 550 M Sport Package (Sold)
    12 F10 535 M Sport Package (Sold)
    11 F10 550 M Sport Package (Current)
    08 E70 X3 3.0si (Current)
    97 E36 M3 (Track Car in progress)

  11. #36
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,827
    My Cars
    2017 F31 M Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by dj10 View Post
    If 10w 60w is so good why can't you buy it from anyone else but dealers and a few shops like Turner Motorsports? Castrol makes a damn good 10W40w synthec for 1/2 the price. IMO it's a money making scam. Change the oil & filter sooner than BMW wants you too.
    So, to reiterate my question on the math of this issue:

    You're going to risk potential engine damage and possible denial of engine damage repair from BMW over a matter of $27 per oil change? Even if you'd have done 5K changes, it's only $81 per year (if you do 15K a year). If your argument is to just change the cheaper oil more often, then you're saving even less. I'm not made of money, but even I think that sounds ridiculous on a car like this.
    Freude am Fahren
    2017 F31 Sport Wagon
    '11 VW Golf TDI (which retained its value *REALLY* well!)

  12. #37
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    bedminster, nj, usa
    Posts
    6
    My Cars
    99 m3
    When was the last time you got your oil checked?

  13. #38
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Lexington, SC
    Posts
    832
    My Cars
    11 550 Sport Pkg, 08 X5
    Quote Originally Posted by rpm555 View Post
    When was the last time you got your oil checked?

    If your refering to me, its been a while but you guys act like M's dont use oil... Some do and some dont... I know of some guys who use alot more oil than me and BMW says it is acceptable to use a qt of oil every 1000 miles for the S52 and for that matter. i have heard of oil consumtpion for the S62, 1 qt every 500 miles is acceptable... Not sure of the S54s but with the horror stories with the bearing issues, I would go no less than 10w60 and i sure as hell wouldnt rev that motor past 8k...
    98 E36 M3 Sedan (Sold)
    08 E60 550 M Sport Package (Sold)
    12 F10 535 M Sport Package (Sold)
    11 F10 550 M Sport Package (Current)
    08 E70 X3 3.0si (Current)
    97 E36 M3 (Track Car in progress)

  14. #39
    Join Date
    Feb 2001
    Location
    Fort Lauderdale, FL.
    Posts
    95,176
    My Cars
    2020 X3M Competition
    Quote Originally Posted by cpcalkins View Post
    If your refering to me, its been a while but you guys act like M's dont use oil... Some do and some dont... I know of some guys who use alot more oil than me and BMW says it is acceptable to use a qt of oil every 1000 miles for the S52 and for that matter. i have heard of oil consumtpion for the S62, 1 qt every 500 miles is acceptable... Not sure of the S54s but with the horror stories with the bearing issues, I would go no less than 10w60 and i sure as hell wouldnt rev that motor past 8k...
    Yes oil consumption is normally ... it is attributed to break-in procedure as well as the production tolerances of each engine. Some people get lucky and don't burn any oil... some people go through it like water.
    Let me get this straight... You are swapping out parts designed by hundreds of engineers that get paid thousands of dollars for something you bought at Pep Boys because your buddy who doesn't have a job told you it was 'better'?!?

  15. #40
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Burnaby, British Columbia, Canada
    Posts
    145
    My Cars
    '02.5 M3 SMG, '00 Yamaha R6
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeM3SMG View Post
    It's your car, but you're going to risk voiding any BMW support in order to save around $2.50 x 6 = $15/oil change or maybe $30-$45 a year???

    Really?

    If I recall correctly, 5w30 is "acceptable" if 10w60 is not available and oil *must* be added. It's not considered interchangeable on a regular basis as their product blurb claims.

    I'm not trying to save money. I just really love Royal Purple. I use it on my bike and it made a nice difference on a motor that revs past 14k on a routine basis.

    I'll spend what I have to make sure my car runs the best it can
    BFC OT LEGO CLUB #29

  16. #41
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    Ligonier, PA
    Posts
    100
    My Cars
    325XI, 325I, M3
    Quote Originally Posted by LeftcoastM3 View Post
    I'm not trying to save money. I just really love Royal Purple. I use it on my bike and it made a nice difference on a motor that revs past 14k on a routine basis.

    I'll spend what I have to make sure my car runs the best it can
    Good Oil, RP, Amsoil, Red Line and yes the German made Castrol are true synthetic oils. Mobil 1 use to be a true synthetic but I've heard they are now a group 3, which still isn't bad, oil. I think your oil is a little over kill unless your racing it. But, whatever makes your boat float.
    Dan Jones

    "life is tough, it's tougher if your stupid"

  17. #42
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Scottsdale/Las Vegas
    Posts
    7
    My Cars
    2005 M3 Cabriolet
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    I can tell you this... three pulls on a dyno with 5w-30 vs. 10w-60 will show a net gain of probably 5-6hp, but after three pulls with 5w-30, your oil temperature will be at or very close to 300 deg F. Also extended heavy foot usage on a hot day will also show oil temperatures in the 260+ range. Some guys will even hit 300 on the track and are looking for better oil coolers to help keep the oil temperatures down.
    I presume the higher hp is the lighter oil which would tranlate to less rotating drag at the higher temperature. You weren't specific.

    Without an oil temp guage I don't know what the M3 runs in normal driving, but my cars with an oil temp guage will run 200-220 deg F while driving around. They will quickly get to 260+ on a track day and by the end of 10 laps are at 280-300 with a large oil cooler.

    I definitely would run the thicker oil for a track day. Daily driving it makes no difference and in fact the lighter oil is likely much better for lubrication at the lower oil temperature.

    In my track car (non BMW) I run 15-50 non detergent for track days and 10-40 for daily driving.

    Oil needs are based more on temperature than tolerances although the looser tolerances of a blueprinted race engine will require a slightly thicker oil. From listening to my M3 I suspect the tolerances are pretty normal....precise but normal. You can hear a loosely built forged engine as it clatters pretty well until it reaches operating temps.

    Perry

  18. #43
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    NoVA
    Posts
    13,224
    My Cars
    135i
    Quote Originally Posted by pkincy View Post
    I presume the higher hp is the lighter oil which would tranlate to less rotating drag at the higher temperature. You weren't specific.

    Without an oil temp guage I don't know what the M3 runs in normal driving, but my cars with an oil temp guage will run 200-220 deg F while driving around. They will quickly get to 260+ on a track day and by the end of 10 laps are at 280-300 with a large oil cooler.

    I definitely would run the thicker oil for a track day. Daily driving it makes no difference and in fact the lighter oil is likely much better for lubrication at the lower oil temperature.

    In my track car (non BMW) I run 15-50 non detergent for track days and 10-40 for daily driving.

    Oil needs are based more on temperature than tolerances although the looser tolerances of a blueprinted race engine will require a slightly thicker oil. From listening to my M3 I suspect the tolerances are pretty normal....precise but normal. You can hear a loosely built forged engine as it clatters pretty well until it reaches operating temps.

    Perry

    There is an oil temp gauge on the E46 M3... not sure what you are talking about.
    E82 135i: Alpine white on black leather; ZSP; ZCW; iPod/USB
    Previous Bimmers owned (from last to first): E46 M3, E34 540i/6, E30 325iS, E34 525i, E30 318i

  19. #44
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Huntington Beach, Ca.
    Posts
    1,387
    My Cars
    02 M3 SMG
    We've raced for 2 seasons using the Castrol TWS. Cost about the same as Redline and who am I to argue with BMWs R&D budget.
    02 M3 SMG - prepared class BMW Club racer
    08 135i - stock class BMW Club racer
    www.TotalMotorOils.us
    www.NittoTire.com
    photo gallery

  20. #45
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    San Jose, CA
    Posts
    8
    My Cars
    2004 M3,2008 535xi wagon
    Where do you guys order the filter from? Website and part # if you have it please? Will use Castrol of course...

  21. #46
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Marietta, GA
    Posts
    21
    My Cars
    2004 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by Kevlar View Post
    Well... without devoting my free time to researching too much numerical proof, here are the differences between 10w-40 oil versus the 10w-60 oil that I was able to quickly find.

    10w-40 / 10w-60

    Viscosity (thickness) at 40 deg C = 98.16 / 163.10
    Viscosity (thickness) at 100 deg C = 14.71 / 24.30

    That's a huge difference in thickness at 242 deg F and considering oil temperatures can get up to 300 deg F, that would make me think that the 10w-60 oil would be required. Now all this is moot if you don't drive your car hard enough to get the oil temperature up that high. If you drive easy and your oil temperate barely gets up to temperature, you could use a lesser oil... could even go down as far as 5w-30 or even lesser yet, 5w-20.

    I can tell you this... three pulls on a dyno with 5w-30 vs. 10w-60 will show a net gain of probably 5-6hp, but after three pulls with 5w-30, your oil temperature will be at or very close to 300 deg F. Also extended heavy foot usage on a hot day will also show oil temperatures in the 260+ range. Some guys will even hit 300 on the track and are looking for better oil coolers to help keep the oil temperatures down.

    All of the above knowledge is personal opinion (except for the viscosity ratings), so I'll leave it at that and agree to disagree.
    Sorry - this is irrelevent WRT oil 'performance', and both of these viscosity ratings are more than adequate at 300 deg. F. Go past that, and breakdown is the key player - most synthetics are better at high temp., but these days there is more marketing spoof out there than real performance when looking at oils. We're having big issues with HIGH dollar oils in the air-cooled Porsche racing world, as most manufacturers have changed formulas to the point where 'modern' oils (like TWS) don't work as well as the older formulas. But I digress.....

    The REAL reason to use TWS (and I use it in my E46 M3) is that the VANOS system in this motor DEPENDS on the oil viscosity to properly operate - the different viscosities listed above would not be the difference between a motor's bearings receiving proper oil at high rpm (like 15,000 rpm in a 500cc GP motorcycle, not the measly 8,000 rpm of our S54), BUT it will be the difference in the VANOS providing proper timing at a given load/RPM/etc. This is why these engines run 'better' with TWS, just as a poster depicted.

    Good Luck!

  22. #47
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Richmond, VA
    Posts
    1,827
    My Cars
    2017 F31 M Sport
    Quote Originally Posted by wennderful View Post
    Where do you guys order the filter from? Website and part # if you have it please? Will use Castrol of course...
    11 42 7 833 769

    http://www.bavauto.com sells them, but by the time you tack on shipping for most vendors, you may as well just hit the dealer in your area.
    Freude am Fahren
    2017 F31 Sport Wagon
    '11 VW Golf TDI (which retained its value *REALLY* well!)

  23. #48
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Fairfield, CT USA
    Posts
    145
    My Cars
    2008 AW 135i
    Didn't BMW change to 10w60 as part of the effort to mitigate the bearing issue in early E46 M3's?

    I seem to recall reading somewhere that they changed the spec to 10w60 (from 5w30, seems awfully thin) while they were researching the issue. But BMW never changed it back after identifying the out-of-spec bearings that were actually the root cause.
    Patrick
    Him:
    2008 135i Alpine White Sport|NAV/iDrive|HDRadio|BT|Step (WAF)
    2005 ///M3 Silver Gray SMG|NAV|Xenon|BT [no mods] PCD 25 May 2005 Traded in 26 Mar 2008.
    1993 325i 5MT|H&R Sports|Bilstein HD|RD Sport Sways|Mille Miglia MM-IIs w/ 225/50-16 Bridgestone RE750s|UUC StrutBarbarian|JC Chip & CAI|M3 cat-back|UUC Clutch Stop|Alpine HU & changer|Boston Acoustics 6.53 Pro|2 x JLAudio 10W0 subs|Xtant amps Hit 9 Jun 2006. R.I.P. Donated to charity 5 Jul 2006.

    Her:
    2005 Honda Odyssey EX-L Silver Pearl

  24. #49
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    .
    Posts
    7,708
    My Cars
    .
    Quote Originally Posted by GeorgeM3SMG View Post
    Is this a custom job? 1 per rotor? Which year 13B is it? I'd be interested in pics of this.

    Nah, factory. 13B-REW. '94 RX-7. All third gens were two rotor, twin turbo from the factory. they were originally set up sequentially so one turbo spools up real quick down low, then the other comes on at 4500. well, thanks to 12-15 solenoids, several actuators, and about 75+ vacuum lines and a couple check valves and vacuum chambers, they tend to quit working properly. simple fix it to plug a couple vacuum lines, and wire open one of the actuator arms. then the turbos run non-sequentially, spooling at the same time. get a little more lag, but make full boost by about 3500.
    ASE and BMW Master Certified Technician

  25. #50
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Posts
    6,481
    My Cars
    E30 E36 E46 E90
    FYI: The 10w60 was specced for two reasons:
    1) To try to combat rod bearing failures. It mostly didn't work as this was a defective part issue. (Although it's hard to say whether or not it reduced failures.)
    2) To solve excessive valvetrain wear problems in both the S54 and S62.

    If you want to run something else that you think is better, go for it. But make sure you have a convincing reason to think that it's better. Not cheaper.
    2011 M3 Sedan
    2006 GMC Sierra 2500HD LBZ
    1999 323i GTS2
    1995 M3 - S50B32/S6S420G/3.91
    1990 325is
    1989 M3 - S54B32/GS6-37BZ

    Hers: 1996 Porsche 911 Turbo
    Hers: 1989 325iX


Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •