Z4 M Coupe vs. E92 M3

[hsmith]

I'm really torn between these two cars. I am seriously considering the M coupe now especially since the incentive of $5000 off invoice through BMW. I was originally going to get the new E92 M3 when it arrives although as much as i love the M3, it has grown bigger and heaver (3650 lbs). I am at a crossroads with my E46 as to stop modding and sell or continue to modify with a roll cage, 5 point harnesses, Recaro SPG's, etc..

I was originally going to wait for the new M3 but would i have more fun with the M coupe on the track? This is what the car will be used most for. I know the M3 will be fast but considering the weight, will it be frusterating in the turns compared to my E46? I value cornering more than straight line speed. I guess this is all speculation... Does anyone have any experiance with the Z4 M coupe on the track?

[grydemon]

I was originally going to wait for the new M3 but would i have more fun with the M coupe on the track? This is what the car will be used most for. I know the M3 will be fast but considering the weight, will it be frusterating in the turns compared to my E46? I value cornering more than straight line speed.

Get an e30 if you care about weight and cornering...Or wait for the 135...

[txse46m3]

The Z4 chassis is awesome and really fun to drive on the track. You have to be a midget to fit in the damn thing though. I can't drive my wife's z4 more than 15 minutes without getting a back ache.

[PrinceE30]

The Z4 chassis is based on the E46 chassis so they have very similar characteristics. I'm not sure how big txse is, but the Z4 is very reaonably sized for a roadster.

[M III Pilot]

The Z4 chassis is based on the E46 chassis so they have very similar characteristics. I'm not sure how big txse is, but the Z4 is very reaonably sized for a roadster.

I had the same thought.
I'm not a small guy, 5' 11" and well I'll say hefty, and have no problem sitting in the Z4, although it was a convertible, I haven't sat in a coupe yet.

[hsmith]

I fit fine in the Z4 M coupe.. My brother just got one and its a blast to drive.

[odortiz]

just wait till somebody puts the new v8 in the m-coupe.

[EvanUrS4]

I fit fine in the Z4 M coupe.. My brother just got one and its a blast to drive.

So take your brother's to a track day and end the speculation

[Emre]

I was originally going to wait for the new M3 but would i have more fun with the M coupe on the track? This is what the car will be used most for. I know the M3 will be fast but considering the weight, will it be frusterating in the turns compared to my E46?

My $0.02 is that you need two cars.

Buy an inexpensive, light, reliable, well-balanced, and "analog" car for the track. An E30 325is or E36 M3 would be a good choice. Build it as a proper track car with all the necessary safety equipment. Then buy whatever you want for a street car. Keep the street car basically stock.

It's no fun driving a car with coilovers and other track-oriented mods on the street. And it's no fun driving a soft, heavy street car on the track. This way, it's a no-compromise situation.

Having a dedicated track car lets you get as extreme as you want to. Go ahead and throw on coilovers, BBK's, a full cage, pull the a/c, strip out the interior, etc. Further, this should be a car that you can afford to walk away from should the worst happen. If you break (or wreck) your "track bitch," it's not the end of the world: you can still get to work on Monday. And there's no fighting with the insurance company; I hate the idea of risking a car on the track that I'm still making payments on.

Emre

[sav///M]

The Z4 chassis is awesome and really fun to drive on the track. You have to be a midget to fit in the damn thing though. I can't drive my wife's z4 more than 15 minutes without getting a back ache.

I'm 6'3", 225 and I fit just fine in my Z4M coupe

[Dino Antonov]

My $0.02 is that you need two cars.



It's no fun driving a car with coilovers and other track-oriented mods on the street. And it's no fun driving a soft, heavy street car on the track. This way, it's a no-compromise situation.



Emre

key

[DatATX]

I'm not sure how big txse is, but the Z4 is very reaonably sized for a roadster.

No one's actually seen txse46m3 in real life, but the few that claim to have seen him say he looks similar to this:




Sorry DD, gotta take up the slack when DLS isn't around.

[The HACK]

Get an e30 if you care about weight and cornering...Or wait for the 135...

Did you know the 135 weighs more than the MZ4 coupe?

[doeboy]

Get an e30 if you care about weight and cornering...Or wait for the 135...

The 135 is heavier than an MZ4 Coupe. It's slightly heavier than an E46M3 even.

[phredden]

Someone beat me to it, but yes, rumor has it the 135 is only a hundred pounds lighter than the 335...considerably cheaper and smaller, but weight saving is expensive. Strange how cheaper cars used to be light and tiny in the past!

I'll also agree that having a relatively inexpensive, relatively underpowered (>200-250 hp) car dedicated for track use on the side, not used on the street much if at all, is the ideal combo. E30, E36, SpecMiata, SpecRacerFord...$10-15k done deal, go have a blast.

[Evergreen Dan]

It's no fun driving a car with coilovers and other track-oriented mods on the street.

+1 And these track-oriented mods don't hold up to the abuse of street driving. Brass caliper guide bushing will corrode. Polyurethane bushing will wear out. Suspension points will break (e.g. sway bar mounts), maybe even trunk floors.

Of course, do as I say, not as I do. I have a Z3 M Coupe that is too stiff to be comfortable on the street and too soft to be really fast on the track, but I have no room for a second car.

I can say that the M Coupe will be much more interesting. There won't be the font of setup knowledge that, say, an E36 M3 has, but it will be unusual and fun if you like that. I often have people taking pictures of my stock-looking car, maybe so that can prove that someone actually bought an Evergreen car . You can't say that about, say, a silver E36 unless it is highly modified.

Also, re the 135, I don't know if they've solved the oil temp problem yet.

[cosM3os]

Food for thought: the 335 turned faster laps than the Mcoupe in C&D's comparison at VIR. As I recall, they found they could drive it faster through the corners cause it was better balanced. So unless the 335 handles better than the M3 for some reason, the M3 would be the way to go.

[hsmith]

So take your brother's to a track day and end the speculation

I'm trying to convince him although that's not going to be easy...

On the two car issue, I have an X3 that i mostly drive everyday although I do like to drive my M3 occasionally on the street just as i would with the new car it will replace. I just wonder if what will be more fun on the track... What ever car i plan on getting, either the Z4 M Coupe or E92 M3, I plan on replacing the seats, suspension, and tires/wheels..

Right now my car is noisy for street use but i don't mind. I have pagid yellow's and rear trailing arm bearings (monoball) that make noise but well worth the trade off for performance.

[frayed]

The age old track/street continuum debate. Another vote here for the two car approach.

But if you must track a new car, lease it, mod the hell out of it, drive the wheels off the car, then return it to stock and hand the keys back in when you are done. Just make sure you post your VIN here so nobody unwittingly buys the thing.

The new M3 will be a rocket, but it is heavy and will eat through brakes/tires like mad.

[EdP]

key

personally, I would not feel safe on track with just a 3-pt belt and airbags in a 400+hp car

[Evergreen Dan]

Three other considerations:

1) If you are not an advanced / instructor / racer level driver yet, perhaps you might wait until you are before buying an even faster car. If you are, then never mind.

2) Faster cars need more safety equipment to maintain the same level of safety as a less fast car. Do you want to put a roll bar or cage in a brand new car? You have a daily driver, so there really is no reason to not have the best safety equipment, including 6 point harnesses and a HANS.

3) What other drivers will you have to play with and compare yourself to at the events that you drive? (For example, I had a supercharger for a while and I lost my ability to compare myself to other drivers. I now have at least as much fun, maybe more, with a stock S52 motor. I usually only drive the last session of the day if there are some comparable-speed cars to have fun with.)

Just more food for thought.

And +1 on the heavy = $$$ for brakes, tires, and suspension parts.

You could also consider some ultra cool track car, such as an Elise, a Radical, an Aerial, or an already-built E30 M3 race car that is street legal (+1 to previous poster). Or a track 944 for that matter. Frankly, I'd prefer any of these to the thought of modding up a brand new super fast BMW.

[M3BimmerBilly]

Neither, get a pre-owned cayman S.

[frayed]

I'm with Dan. Grown tired over compromise cars, where I regret the mods that I've done for track use during my morning commute.

As for slower cars. . . one of the contributing reasons for my sale of the GT3 was the epiphany that at T1 at 155 mph, in a rear engined car with 3 point belts and sticky tires, bad things could happen. . . this in turn made me drive like a pussy (or, ahem, more like a pussy) and was ultimately less fun.

My E36 track car is a load of fun, and there are plenty to run with at the local tracks.

[tammer]

Hell, I had that same epiphany in an E28 M5. 20-year-old stock belts and seats, not the fastest car in the world but capable of exiting the esses at the Glen north of 125 mph, and relatively rare ... didn't want to ball up the car or myself because of a freak tire failure or inopportune coolant dump. Sold it (miss it, though), bought the E36, and am much happier pushing a car with all the safety gear and no power--though I wouldn't mind some power ....

I vote for the M3 because it's sure to be a phenomenal street car. Pick a safe track and take it out once or twice to learn the car, but in the meantime pick up a cheap E36 (plenty of sub-$3k donor cars out there) and build it.

-tammer

[txse46m3]

The Z4 chassis is based on the E46 chassis so they have very similar characteristics. I'm not sure how big txse is, but the Z4 is very reaonably sized for a roadster.

6'3" 200

The Z4 really is fun to drive though. Had a 2.5L auto tranny loaner while my wife's was in the shop. Ended up driving it at TWS during a DE. Despite the torqueless motor, runflat tires, and auto tranny, I turned a 2:10 with a large passenger. It's a very capable car. The transmission alone cost me 3 seconds at least. I'd bet a 3.0 w/ manual, some koni's, and toyo's could easily turn 2:00 at TWS. They're very quick.