My e39 Koni FSD install and thoughts

[BlackSapphire]

Hmm well that sucks!

They have already hit my card with charges which will really tick me off if I don't get these for another few weeks...

I'll give them a call in a bit and see what the deal is. Are they just a middle man for Koni then? If they're shipping from Koni-NA then it seems like they must be. I wonder if we could have gotten the same deal (maybe cheaper) if we went through Koni to avoid SPP's markup.

Bah, I just ordered them yesterday; can't start getting upset quite yet

They are considerable MORE expensive directly through Koni-NA.

Let me know how your phone conversation goes.

[PutterMcGavin]

They are considerable MORE expensive directly through Koni-NA.

Let me know how your phone conversation goes.

Just spoke with Eric at SPP who let me know that the order is in but that Koni is running a few days behind on their orders. Says that they're coming from a distributor and being shipped from KY. I'm probably looking at a week as long as they're not back ordered. May not be able to put them on before my trip though

He mentioned that he talked to somebody else who ordered the FSD's, I think he said the guy's name was Roman? If it was you then you know the deal.

[BlackSapphire]

He mentioned that he talked to somebody else who ordered the FSD's, I think he said the guy's name was Roman? If it was you then you know the deal.

Yup... I know the deal.

[wquiles]

Nice post - thanks for sharing.

I got email with tracking information today - my FSD's are on the way!

[BlackSapphire]

I got email with tracking information today - my FSD's are on the way!

Same here... they are sitting at a UPS facility about 30 mins from my house but won't be delivered for 4 more days.

[PutterMcGavin]

[BlackSapphire]

OK, I got my FSDs today. I immediately took them out and something puzzles me. Maybe you guys can shed some light. I'm sure it will become apparent as soon as I tear back into the front suspension but I thought maybe Putter could check his first (to see if this is normal).

So, the first thing I notice is this pic that came with the 'wordless instructions'.



Notice the positioning of the spring perches above.

So, knowing that the front strut pinch collar seams face to the inside (facing each other), I lined up the struts on the ground accordingly. The left (L) mark on the left strut facing the right strut and the right (R) mark on the right strut facing the left strut. This should be correct with respect to their installed position.





OK, now lets take a look at the orientation of the spring perches now that the marks are lined up properly:





What gives? Before you tell me to swap the struts left to right, that's irrelevant. The perches still have the same offset. It's relevant during the install but not for the purposes of this discussion.

So.... Putter McGavin or anyone else that has them but hasn't installed them yet, can you please check them out for me? Let me know if they look the same or not - that's my biggest concern. I can't for the life of me why they would be intentionally designed this way.

[cdb3113]

I found that mine are strange also, that is why I had some confusion earlier in this thread. Now that you have seen something weird on your struts, take a look back at my prev. posts and you may get an idea of what was worrying me. The spring perches on my front FSDs are in different angled positions as well.

The post where I had pics was #35.

When I had my car aligned, I asked the mechanics what they thought of that problem, and they said it does not matter.

I am not wholly convinced actually, but what do you do? Should we ask Koni?

Sapphire, yours look like they are even more off than mine. Maybe it is a production problem?



This is kind of how mine came out. I spent some time on this drawing.

[BlackSapphire]

I found that mine are strange also, that is why I had some confusion earlier in this thread. Now that you have seen something weird on your struts, take a look back at my prev. posts and you may get an idea of what was worrying me. The spring perches on my front FSDs are in different angled positions as well.

The post where I had pics was #35.

When I had my car aligned, I asked the mechanics what they thought of that problem, and they said it does not matter.

I am not wholly convinced actually, but what do you do? Should we ask Koni?

Sapphire, yours look like they are even more off than mine. Maybe it is a production problem?



This is kind of how mine came out. I spent some time on this drawing.

So... you're saying that your left strut is angled like the pic but your right one is angled more towards the rear of the car, right?

If so, my right strut is about 90 degrees off - both perches 'sort of' face the same way when you line up the marks. I wonder if I should follow the marks or orient them like the pic? If so, there's no way to get it exact.

[cdb3113]

Yessir. The factory struts are evenly angled, as originally shown in your pic.

[BlackSapphire]

Yessir. The factory struts are evenly angled, as originally shown in your pic.

OK, I just sent emails to Eric @ Supremepower and Koni-NA.

[eric@spp]

I dont think it matters either.....line up the marks and make sure the spring is secure and the perch is angled outwards everything is set.

I have also called Koni to get info for you.

[cdb3113]

The Bentley manual told me to orient the struts with the marks, so that seems to be the critical thing. I don't know if it matters for the valving inside or not. Since I could not get the perches to be exactly where they should be (didnt try either), I went with:
Install, get aligned, have it checked out by someone who knows.

They said it was ok, so I said ok...

I just keep it in mind, cause it is a weird issue. Thanks for making the contacts!

[eric@spp]

If you have any questions call us at 714 632 1951 or email eric@supremepower.com

[Mad Dog 20/20]

IMHO, that's poor QC for a product at that price point - regardless of whether it "matters".

[BlackSapphire]

Eric, I replied directly to you. I guess I didn't explain the issue well enough. Let me know if that one makes more sense.

Cliff notes for the rest of you:

Align struts using L/R marking (per TIS/Bentley/etc.) and the ones I received will look like this from above:



However, the instructions included with them (as well as the way they sit from the factory) suggest this is completely wrong. They should be angled away from each other - not facing the same direction.



I'd really like to know from Koni if this is intended. If so, why? Why make them totally different from the factory struts they are replacing? Why do cdb's struts line up pretty well yet mine are off by 90 degrees? This is the way the perches are stamped onto the valve body - it's not an install issue. Either that or the L/R marks are off by 90 degrees. If that's the case, the QC is amazingly bad.

I hate to just 'eyeball' it and expect it to be correct. If that was the case, BMW wouldn't make such a big deal about lining up the L/R marks exactly on the pinch collar seam.

Eric, thank you for looking into this - I do appreciate your help.

[BlackSapphire]

This further illustrates it. If I take the right strut (on the left in the picture) and orient it with the 'R' marking facing straight up and then the left strut with the 'L' marking facing the right strut (rather than straight up like the other one), here is the view from above.



As Eric pointed out to me, it looks like they pressed that seat on 90 degrees off (see how it's a square?).

I'll probably just make another index mark on the right strut (90 degrees off) so that the two perches look like the pic I posted in this reply.

What say you?

[BlackSapphire]

OK, crisis averted - thanks Eric!

There is actually nothing to index the perch on the valve body at all. In fact, those perches aren't welded on or anything. All I did was tap it off with a shot filled rubber mallet, index it as necessary, and then tap it back into place. It was a much smaller deal than I suspected and took very little effort.

I suspect that if there was an issue with the perch rotating on the valve body, Koni would do more than just lightly press them onto the valve body - the perch is barely crimped to keep it in place but not enough to even dent the valve body - so, there isn't much keeping them there except spring pressure/vehicle weight.

[eric@spp]

Human error by Koni. I will be pointing this out to them to ensure nobody has this problem in the future

Glad to be of service. =)

[PutterMcGavin]

Ok so basically just reseat the perch to the correct position and you're good to go?

Man after ready the rest of the post I thought I'd need a rocket scientist to install my suspension! Glad to know that isn't the case!

Hopefully my suspension will be here sometime this week! I'll keep you guys posted!

[cdb3113]

How did you line up the perches to the correct position? How critical do you think the perch rotation angle is to ride quality? How close should it be/how close is yours now?

The rear perches just sit on there also, they aren't even pressed on.

I suspect that the front perches only need to clear the tire, and that the shape/angle is meant to handle how the spring compresses with vehicle weight on it.



Putter, you don't need to worry about installing the struts... sorry I made the thread look so complicated! I ran into the same issue as Sapphire, and I did not accurately or concisely describe it.

[BlackSapphire]

Answers inline:

How did you line up the perches to the correct position? How critical do you think the perch rotation angle is to ride quality? How close should it be/how close is yours now?

Well, I assumed the left one was correct (or close enough since it matched the OEM orientation as well as the install pic). I stood both struts up, had the L facing the R exactly, set the perch on the right one and pushed it down a little to keep it from moving and then stood back, eyeballed.....eyeballed some more. When I was comfortable that the angles off of center were identical (although opposed of course), I tapped it home. Then I eyeballed it some more to see if it moved at all. So.... it's either perfect or off less than the eye can detect. There is probably a more scientific way to do it but meh.... I can't see that a 1/2 mm would matter.

The rear perches just sit on there also, they aren't even pressed on.

I suspect that the front perches only need to clear the tire, and that the shape/angle is meant to handle how the spring compresses with vehicle weight on it.



Putter, you don't need to worry about installing the struts... sorry I made the thread look so complicated! I ran into the same issue as Sapphire, and I did not accurately or concisely describe it.

+1 Putter - don't sweat it. If yours are close, just go with it. I only took the measures I did because I didn't want it 90 degrees off. It wouldn't effect the ride height but I was worried about clearances.

[wquiles]

OK, crisis averted - thanks Eric!

There is actually nothing to index the perch on the valve body at all. In fact, those perches aren't welded on or anything. All I did was tap it off with a shot filled rubber mallet, index it as necessary, and then tap it back into place. It was a much smaller deal than I suspected and took very little effort.

I suspect that if there was an issue with the perch rotating on the valve body, Koni would do more than just lightly press them onto the valve body - the perch is barely crimped to keep it in place but not enough to even dent the valve body - so, there isn't much keeping them there except spring pressure/vehicle weight.

By the way, thanks to this thread I was able to properly align/orient the front's during my FSD install. Thanks so much guys!!!

As to my impressions: My 2000 540i A with Prem and Sport package with 91K miles had the shocks simply dead. From within the car and driving slowly over small bumps, the shocks "appear" to have doing an OK job, but once out of the car, I was able to verify that there was little to almost no resistance on the piston on the fronts, and almost zero resistance on the back ones. I have changed shocks in 3-4 cars, and these were by far the worst in terms of being "dead".

Following recommendations here and a few other BMW forums, I installed a new set of Koni FSD's. I stayed with the OEM springs since I want to preserve the OEM ride height and want to keep the basic OEM Sport Package comfort.

True, I went from dead shocks to new Koni FSD's, and changing the rear shocks was a major pain in the butt, but folks who recommended the FSD's were spot-on. These things are simply amazing. The ride is actually softer over bumps and road irregularities, but amazingly enough firmer on twisties, and with almost zero dive-in during braking. Somebody said that using FSD's were like riding on a carpeted road - I have to agree that is a fair assessment.

I was a little worried about all of the hype, but the FSD's delivered in their promise. Simply an outstanding shock for those wanting improved handling "and" comfort - highly recommended!. In fact, I am looking forward to my wife's car hitting the 50K mile mark (now at 23K) to "justify" putting those in her car as well!!!

[GTMAN]

Welcome to the world of FSD! I have had them on my ride for the last 4 months and just love them. Car is just so light on its feet and much more control in manouvering. Recent trip to Sedona up thru the twisties at 80-110mph was sooo much nicer. The OEM setup would make me nervous doing what I did with the FSD's...especially taking a big bend at 100mph and hitting a big dip mid way...it does put quite a dynamic challenge on the chassis/suspension setup...and the FSD's just took them well damped and stabalized real fast with comfort. My Mom during the ride commented that the car felt like a submarine because its like not riding on ruff waves, but under water, just really smooth with no fuss. That made my day!

[toez540]

i got eibach/fsd setup, the ride and height is perfect