Drove the Loaner E90 328Xi..

[Chinny4290]

...and I walk away impressed as usual with a Bimmer. It is one seriously fun car to drive...though the AWD at its limits yields understeer as usual.

I took it up on some backroads and the car grips really really well and talks back all the time. Very communicative.

Though the ZF STEPTRONIC is still annoying as hell, won't hold shifts, and let me downshift when I want...(My 4-speed is more involving in terms of shifting)...it's a loaner give me a break.

Steering is really heavy though...a little dead IMO compared to my E320. But its directional feel is really good.

The E90 made me miss my sister's E46 325i 5-Spd which was bucket loads of fun...until it got repoed...

Can't imagine how much better a 335i manual is...

[ohnoes]

I can't believe you are saying the steering is "a little dead" compared to your MERCEDES. .

BMW steering is heavy, just FYI.

[EaglEye]

I got a baller-ass bright blue 328xiT loaner for a couple days back a few months ago, and was fairly ambivalent about it.

The heavy steering was one issue I had. Now, heavy steering on its own isn't a problem, in fact I'd say it's usually a good thing. Heavy steering when there's no friggin steering feel whatsoever, however, is an issue. The E36 had good steering---heavy and communicative. The E46 had more numb steering, but at least it was in turn lighter. The E90 has heavier steering than an E36(IMO), yet the same lack of feel and communication as an E46, and that's just dumb. I don't want to have to flail around with needlessly heavy steering when I am getting zero information out of it.

The transmission was my other big gripe. I hate automatics, I won't make any excuses about it. I think they sap the life out of any car's driving experience; take away a majority of the driver involvement; are impossible to adequately control; and above all are immensely boring to drive. That said, I know what a good autobox is and can certainly appreciate a well-designed unit. And for all the BS about how the new 6-speed Step is ohh soooo much better than the old 5-speed, it pretty much sucks ass---allow me to be blunt. I have never in my life experienced such a j-e-r-k-y---f-u-...-i-n-g---a-u-t-o-m-a-t-i-c---t-r-a-n-s-m-i-s-s-i-o-n. Every upshift is like getting kicked in the back of the seat, and why? Hell if I know. The shifts are still slow as molasses. Oh, and I'm just talking about the upshifts; I won't even get into the "super fast SMG-like!!1!!!" downshifts that....aren't. The one thing I liked about it was that the torque converter locked up pretty much as soon as you started rolling. That is absolutely fantastic, and would be a boon to spirited driving. Unfortunately, when coupled with the TCU's overly frugal control logic, it sometimes means that you're left lugging along in 4th gear at 1500rpm in a car with 200ft/lbs of torque that weighs 3500 lbs and a transmission that refuses to downshift. That's not a good situation.

Overall, I thought it was okay, but not really much of an improvement on the E46, more of a "lateral" movement from its predecessor.

[Chinny4290]

I can't believe you are saying the steering is "a little dead" compared to your MERCEDES. .

BMW steering is heavy, just FYI.

How about you fly out here and drive my car before you start heading over to your generalizations.

Have you ever driven an old Mercedes? Or yet, a Mercedes that was more of a driver's car, much like mine?

kthxstfubi

I got a baller-ass bright blue 328xiT loaner for a couple days back a few months ago, and was fairly ambivalent about it.

The heavy steering was one issue I had. Now, heavy steering on its own isn't a problem, in fact I'd say it's usually a good thing. Heavy steering when there's no friggin steering feel whatsoever, however, is an issue. The E36 had good steering---heavy and communicative. The E46 had more numb steering, but at least it was in turn lighter. The E90 has heavier steering than an E36(IMO), yet the same lack of feel and communication as an E46, and that's just dumb. I don't want to have to flail around with needlessly heavy steering when I am getting zero information out of it.

The transmission was my other big gripe. I hate automatics, I won't make any excuses about it. I think they sap the life out of any car's driving experience; take away a majority of the driver involvement; are impossible to adequately control; and above all are immensely boring to drive. That said, I know what a good autobox is and can certainly appreciate a well-designed unit. And for all the BS about how the new 6-speed Step is ohh soooo much better than the old 5-speed, it pretty much sucks ass---allow me to be blunt. I have never in my life experienced such a j-e-r-k-y---f-u-...-i-n-g---a-u-t-o-m-a-t-i-c---t-r-a-n-s-m-i-s-s-i-o-n. Every upshift is like getting kicked in the back of the seat, and why? Hell if I know. The shifts are still slow as molasses. Oh, and I'm just talking about the upshifts; I won't even get into the "super fast SMG-like!!1!!!" downshifts that....aren't. The one thing I liked about it was that the torque converter locked up pretty much as soon as you started rolling. That is absolutely fantastic, and would be a boon to spirited driving. Unfortunately, when coupled with the TCU's overly frugal control logic, it sometimes means that you're left lugging along in 4th gear at 1500rpm in a car with 200ft/lbs of torque that weighs 3500 lbs and a transmission that refuses to downshift. That's not a good situation.

Overall, I thought it was okay, but not really much of an improvement on the E46, more of a "lateral" movement from its predecessor.

Nice. I could pretty much agree with everything you said in there now that I think about how the sis's E46 drove.

+6861687 on the STEPTRONIC...it was extraordinarily jerky everytime i hit the kickdown switch or extraordinarily dimwitted if I used the manumatic mode.

[typeS4]

BMW steering is heavy, just FYI.

QFT

It's part of what makes the feel SOO DAMN GOOD.

[ohnoes]

How about you fly out here and drive my car before you start heading over to your generalizations.

Have you ever driven an old Mercedes? Or yet, a Mercedes that was more of a driver's car, much like mine?

I'm sorry, but a Mercedes is a Mercedes. They all feel numb and uninvolved. No, I have not driven a W124--but why would ONE single platform be so drastically different from what makes a Mercedes, well, a Mercedes?

kthxstfubi

[Chinny4290]

I was saying that cuz I thought my car's steering was heavy.

I'm guess I'm too used to the overboosted and light steering feels of the E38, E65 and the E60.

[Chinny4290]

I'm sorry, but a Mercedes is a Mercedes. They all feel numb and uninvolved. No, I have not driven a W124--but why would ONE single platform be so drastically different from what makes a Mercedes, well, a Mercedes?

If you haven't driven a W124, then how can you make a single statement like that allowing it to speak for every car Mercedes has made?

Sure newer Mercedes' steering is numb and uninvolved...I drove a W220 S500 once and I'd agree by that.

If you haven't driven a W124, W126, W201, a W123 and drive a W124 daily like I do, quit talking since you have no first hand experience to back it up.

Now I know how other people feel for some of hte stupid things I say (if some of you read this as sort of an apologetic statement, yes it is)

[SawyE30]

I'm sorry, but a Mercedes is a Mercedes. They all feel numb and uninvolved. No, I have not driven a W124--but why would ONE single platform be so drastically different from what makes a Mercedes, well, a Mercedes?

I've driven his car and to be honest, it's not as nearly as bad as you might think. His steering is fairly heavy and there is a modicum of feel to it. You have driven a C124 which is fairly tossable despite its girth. There is enough feel in the steering of his car that you know you're driving a heavy car; my Volvo even feels more chuckable (it weighs the same amount and has two gratuitous doors). You should test drive a C124, and see for yourself. I am the first to say that Mercedes are uninvolving, I've driven a couple and have one, but you should really individually test out cars before stating their involvment value based off their brand reputation. I wouldn't say that your E34 is uninvolving just because the E60 is uninvolving etc. Chinny can speak better to this because he's driven both.

[ohnoes]

I've driven his car and to be honest, it's not as nearly as bad as you might think. His steering is fairly heavy and there is a modicum of feel to it. You have driven a C124 which is fairly tossable despite its girth. There is enough feel in the steering of his car that you know you're driving a heavy car; my Volvo even feels more chuckable (it weighs the same amount and has two gratuitous doors). You should test drive a C124, and see for yourself. I am the first to say that Mercedes are uninvolving, I've driven a couple and have one, but you should really individually test out cars before stating their involvment value based off their brand reputation. I wouldn't say that your E34 is uninvolving just because the E60 is uninvolving etc. Chinny can speak better to this because he's driven both.

The E60 is not uninvolving. I'd venture a guess it's still far more involving than any Mercedes E-class.

[SawyE30]

The E60 is not uninvolving. I'd venture a guess it's still far more involving than any Mercedes E-class.

I can say from personal experience that it is extremely uninvolving haven driven a 530xi, which is entirely drive-by wire; the driver is isolated from most things which let you know whether or not you're overcooking a corner. Throttle, brakes, and steering (active steering) are all literally electric switches; meaning that there is no mechanical connection between you and the car. The ride is far too soft, or far to hard depending upon whether you've got the run-flats on 16's, 17's or 18's. There is also an insane amount of noise isolation, so adhesion and engine noises as your last hopes of invovement are shut down as well. I spent an entire day driving the car around Vermont (we have a great variety of involving roads up here; something which is hard to come by in VA...as a side note, since you live in NoVa, try going on 50 until you hit Aldie and take the right turn to Bluemont and Philomont...that's a really fun road if you have interest in heading off to Winchester or Berryville. I lived in Winchester for 13 years, and my grandparents live in Annandale, so I know the area pretty well. Here's what you should do: go to Fairfax BMW, and get a test drive in one of their E60's and ask the salesman lots of irritating technical questions (I did this a couple years back...good times...when asking if the m54 had a timing chain, he assured us that it has a nice torque band lol)

[os2]

If you haven't driven a W124, then how can you make a single statement like that allowing it to speak for every car Mercedes has made?

Sure newer Mercedes' steering is numb and uninvolved...I drove a W220 S500 once and I'd agree by that.

If you haven't driven a W124, W126, W201, a W123 and drive a W124 daily like I do, quit talking since you have no first hand experience to back it up.

Now I know how other people feel for some of hte stupid things I say (if some of you read this as sort of an apologetic statement, yes it is)

not all Benzen were born equal
W124 steerinng indeed is nice, well weighted.
A little bit odd and getting used to because it is a carryover from W114/W123 recirculating ball setup not a rack and pinion, but has a good feedback.

[Garrett M]

I've driven his car and to be honest, it's not as nearly as bad as you might think. His steering is fairly heavy and there is a modicum of feel to it. You have driven a C124 which is fairly tossable despite its girth. There is enough feel in the steering of his car that you know you're driving a heavy car; my Volvo even feels more chuckable (it weighs the same amount and has two gratuitous doors). You should test drive a C124, and see for yourself. I am the first to say that Mercedes are uninvolving, I've driven a couple and have one, but you should really individually test out cars before stating their involvment value based off their brand reputation. I wouldn't say that your E34 is uninvolving just because the E60 is uninvolving etc. Chinny can speak better to this because he's driven both.

E60 is not uninvolving. Ask me how i know

[Chinny4290]

THis is gunna get interesting....

I would call the E60 involving to the point where the driver's input is run through a bunch of computers and then translates into what he/she tells the car to do, and steering is numb and feels overboosted, pedal feel is numb, STEPTRONIC doesn't hold gear in manumatic and is dimwitted as hell....and that isn't a driver's car IMO.

Involving in terms of driving dynamics though...everytime I push the E60...the DSC idiot blinks like a Christmas tree and I found it hard to figure out what exactly the car was doing, whether it was understeer or oversteer...though there are times when I can feel the DSC fighting the back end. I can say the E60 is involving in terms of keeping it composed.

What's your story Garrett?

[Garrett M]

THis is gunna get interesting....

I would call the E60 involving to the point where the driver's input is run through a bunch of computers and then translates into what he/she tells the car to do, and steering is numb and feels overboosted, pedal feel is numb, STEPTRONIC doesn't hold gear in manumatic and is dimwitted as hell....and that isn't a driver's car IMO.

Involving in terms of driving dynamics though...everytime I push the E60...the DSC idiot blinks like a Christmas tree and I found it hard to figure out what exactly the car was doing, whether it was understeer or oversteer...though there are times when I can feel the DSC fighting the back end. I can say the E60 is involving in terms of keeping it composed.

What's your story Garrett?

Is this all coming from the kid who just got his license? The computers don't tell the car what to do, the steering is NOT numb, your an idiot for getting steptronic.

Anyway how hard can you actually push that car Chinny? I mean are you a good driver? I bet the DSC has saved your ass...Its saved mine while going as fast as I could around a wet skid pad in an E60. It is actually very underrated and people don't give credit where it is due. I hate to break it to you but not everyone can flip of DSC and expect to stay on the road.

As for my story...Well you tell the car what to do...If you can handle it turn DSC off and roll. I have tracked an E60 M5, and every minute of it was amazing. I pushed the car found my limits in it and then became very comfortable in it. I don't know where to start maybe the perfect drivers position...So much more then DSC and w.e you listed off. I could go on about the feel, steering, response etc but w.e

[Chinny4290]

Is this all coming from the kid who just got his license? The computers don't tell the car what to do, the steering is NOT numb, your an idiot for getting steptronic.

Anyway how hard can you actually push that car Chinny? I mean are you a good driver? I bet the DSC has saved your ass...Its saved mine while going as fast as I could around a wet skid pad in an E60. It is actually very underrated and people don't give credit where it is due. I hate to break it to you but not everyone can flip of DSC and expect to stay on the road.

As for my story...Well you tell the car what to do...If you can handle it turn DSC off and roll. I have tracked an E60 M5, and every minute of it was amazing. I pushed the car found my limits in it and then became very comfortable in it. I don't know where to start maybe the perfect drivers position...So much more then DSC and w.e you listed off. I could go on about the feel, steering, response etc but w.e

DId you seriously have to take that so offensively?

Did something all of a sudden just shove up your ass?

Let's break down your post.

Is this all coming from the kid who just got his license? The computers don't tell the car what to do, the steering is NOT numb, your an idiot for getting steptronic.

So almost every bit of driver input is not put through the central computer, throttle position via drive-by-wire, electronically controlled variable ratio power assisted steering...I never said the computers depicts what a car does...I said driver input is put through a computer which is then translated into what the driver wanted...

And FYI, Active Steering is VERY numb. I'm an idiot for getting STEPTRONIC...right when I'm not the one who signed the lease for the 545i Sport.

Anyway how hard can you actually push that car Chinny? I mean are you a good driver? I bet the DSC has saved your ass...Its saved mine while going as fast as I could around a wet skid pad in an E60. It is actually very underrated and people don't give credit where it is due. I hate to break it to you but not everyone can flip of DSC and expect to stay on the road.

Had a Skip Barber instructor ride shotgun when my dad took me to a corporate event at Lime Rock. Dad was in the back seat of his 545i when we took it out. Did I say I was fucking Michael Schumacher?

And yes...DSC has saved my ass on dry pavement. I never denied that it did. In fact, I'm too scared to flip it off.

As for my story...Well you tell the car what to do...If you can handle it turn DSC off and roll. I have tracked an E60 M5, and every minute of it was amazing. I pushed the car found my limits in it and then became very comfortable in it. I don't know where to start maybe the perfect drivers position...So much more then DSC and w.e you listed off. I could go on about the feel, steering, response etc but w.e

Let remind you...you're basing all of your experience off an E60 M5, which is a good car for what it is and I won't deny it's amazing....but a completely different breed of E60 compared to the 545i Sport. It's like comparing a Porsche 912 to a 911 Carrera RS.

And the M5 probably has better pedal feel, a more responsive, less dimwitted drive-by-wire system, a better transmission and has no Active Steering. There's a clue Sherlock...my dad's 545i Sport DOES have Active Steering.