AST Suspension

[Danny318]

Oh, well I like teh amount of castor, so I'll just be happy with -3.0ish

Thanks guys.

[ChosenGSR]

Terry, does it sound about right that you gain about a degree of camber for every 2 marks on the plate?

[epj3]

We only have so much room to use for camber travel before the plates start hitting strut towers so we've kept the minimum camber setting dead square in the middle of the strut tower opening for street set-ups. The large amount of min camber you are seeing is from... you guessed it... ride height.

Yea, at 12.25" ride height that's about where you'll end up for minimum camber (12.25" is somewhat low for the front front). If you raise it your minimum camber will inch closer to -1.5 or -2°. Anything less than -3° will work on the street without excessive tire wear if you dial down the toe properly.

I've been thrilled with -2.5 on the street so far. My avg gas mileage has gone down as a result... Tire wear over about 1200 miles looks completely normal.

[fsmtnbiker]

Damn, -2.5 is the minimum camber I can get (which is fine). I'm guessing I could get around -4 deg at max (if not more) once I modify my stock reinforcement plates. I'm really not that low, maybe 12.25-12.5" front.

12.25 is really low in the front... Too low, IMO, for the suspension. You're getting into the 'crappy' area of the camber curve running it that low, unless you run some ultra-stiff springs to compensate for the height.

[epj3]

12.25 is really low in the front... Too low, IMO, for the suspension. You're getting into the 'crappy' area of the camber curve running it that low, unless you run some ultra-stiff springs to compensate for the height.

Like I said, it was 12.25-12.5". Probably around 12.5" but I can't verify it as the car is out in the pouring rain. The adjusters are maxed out, and the car sits no lower than 99% of e36's I have seen with any decent coilover setup.

[M13]

I just picked up a set of K1s - 17x8.5s all around. ET40. (I think, could be 44)

My 10mm spacers are not enough to clear my coilovers. Is anyone else running these wheels with this suspension? Are you using a 15mm spacer? Also, please specify if you're running camber plates as I am not.

[epj3]

I just picked up a set of K1s - 17x8.5s all around. ET40. (I think, could be 44)

My 10mm spacers are not enough to clear my coilovers. Is anyone else running these wheels with this suspension? Are you using a 15mm spacer? Also, please specify if you're running camber plates as I am not.

Ordering K1's tomorrow along with two new tires (to compliment the other two I bought 2 months ago.) 245/40/17 square....

Earlier in the thread, someone said they were using 5mm spacers and it was fine. I hope so, since that's what I ordered!

[M13]

Earlier in the thread, someone said they were using 5mm spacers and it was fine. I hope so, since that's what I ordered!

I see you have 4100s. I'm running the sportlines (Is there a difference as far as fitment is concerned?)

My RCs are 8s in the front with an offset of 38 and they BARELY fit with a 10mm.




K1s won't work with my 10. I'm sure it'll clear with a 15 but I'm worried about rubbing on the outside fender since I'm not running a lot of negative camber.

[tammer]

I see you have 4100s. I'm running the sportlines (Is there a difference as far as fitment is concerned?)

My RCs are 8s in the front with an offset of 38 and they BARELY fit with a 10mm.

K1s won't work with my 10. I'm sure it'll clear with a 15 but I'm worried about rubbing on the outside fender since I'm not running a lot of negative camber.

If they'll work with a 12mm spacer, I have a pair I'll trade you for the 10s.

-tammer

[epj3]

I see you have 4100s. I'm running the sportlines (Is there a difference as far as fitment is concerned?)

My RCs are 8s in the front with an offset of 38 and they BARELY fit with a 10mm.




K1s won't work with my 10. I'm sure it'll clear with a 15 but I'm worried about rubbing on the outside fender since I'm not running a lot of negative camber.

Yea big difference - I could be wrong, but the sportlines have a helper spring correct? The 4100's are pretty much the same except no helper, so my height adjuster is at the top of the threaded part. I'll get a few pics when the wheels come (hopefully friday) if it fits. I'm 99% sure I'll be fine though.

[M13]

^^ Good luck to you. Hopefully others will chime in.

[SilverAP1]

I just picked up a set of K1s - 17x8.5s all around. ET40. (I think, could be 44)

My 10mm spacers are not enough to clear my coilovers. Is anyone else running these wheels with this suspension? Are you using a 15mm spacer? Also, please specify if you're running camber plates as I am not.

I'm running 17x8.5 K1 racing with 5mm H&R spacer and it clear my 4100 just fine.

(running 235/40 Toyo RA1 and 235/40 NT-01)

[clopez95m3]

I'm running 17x8.5 K1 racing with 5mm H&R spacer and it clear my 4100 just fine.

(running 235/40 Toyo RA1 and 235/40 NT-01)

I'm also running 17x8.5 Kosei K1s. Because of my front brakes though I already run a 10mm spacer up front. 235/40-17 RA1s for track days and 245/40-17 Pilot Sports on stock 8.5" wheels (w/15mm spacer). I do use camber plates. To me if you go with coilovers you should also go with camber plates otherwise what is the point? It's like getting big brakes for street driving.

My adjusters are at the very top as well ~13" from ctr of wheel to top edge of front fender for ride height. Next set of springs will be longer so I have some ability to go higher if I wish.

Carlos.

[ChosenGSR]

I am running 4100 w/camber plates, 17x8.5 k1s with 235/40 Hankooks and no rubbing I think . I noticed that when the wheel is completely lifted in the air (using a jack) and I try to spin it by hand, it slightly rubs against the adjustable sway bar link mounting bracket in certain wheel positions. This happens on both fronts. When the car is lowered to the ground though I don't believe it happens anymore, at least I couldn't hear it. I tried pushing the car with the engine off to test that. I haven't tried adding camber yet, don't know what that would do to that situation. Should I be running a spacer up front?

BTW, my sway bar adjusters (with stock links) are currently sitting 5 threads higher than what M13 has his set at in the picture, is that ok? (12.75" f height)

[M13]

I'm running 17x8.5 K1 racing with 5mm H&R spacer and it clear my 4100 just fine.

(running 235/40 Toyo RA1 and 235/40 NT-01)

I have Sportlines. From the previous reply, apparently, there is a major difference in design.

I am running 4100 w/camber plates, 17x8.5 k1s with 235/40 Hankooks and no rubbing I think . I noticed that when the wheel is completely lifted in the air (using a jack) and I try to spin it by hand, it slightly rubs against the adjustable sway bar link mounting bracket in certain wheel positions. This happens on both fronts. When the car is lowered to the ground though I don't believe it happens anymore, at least I couldn't hear it. I tried pushing the car with the engine off to test that. I haven't tried adding camber yet, don't know what that would do to that situation. Should I be running a spacer up front?

BTW, my sway bar adjusters (with stock links) are currently sitting 5 threads higher than what M13 has his set at in the picture, is that ok? (12.75" f height)

You might try running at least a 5mm spacer if you are rubbing. What you could also do is apply some painters tape on the inside of your wheels, drive around and see if any of the tape has been sheared off to determine if there is contact.

[Alan Coles]

...Alan - your car is sitting way is up in the air...

Yeah, but the view is so nice. You can almost see the whole course layout from the up there, and I don't have to PhotoShop my pics to ride over cones.

...That's why you are seeing limited neg. camber...

As mentioned above, in a previous post, I felt that was part of the problem.

...There's nothing else to rule out unless you also have offset lower bushings...

That may be part 2 of the problem. My car is a 95 (96 3.2L OBDI conv). I'm running the TC Kline Delrin Offset bushings. They don't make a centered Delrin bushing. Also not sure where going to the centered bushing would locate the wheel as I think the dimensions on the 95 vs 96-99 arms are different, they've got different part #s at least. Do you know if that's the case?

I went to the TC Kline bushing as only their's and CG's have a lip to keep the bushing from pushing out the back under braking, etc. Ran into this problem a few years ago and had to jack the car up and push the bushing back into place between every run, as it would pop out after about 1 1/4 runs.

...Roll those fenders and lower that beast, or get out the Saws All.
Cheers,

That's the plan for this weekend. We've decided to not instruct at this weekends BMW School to allow some time for rolling and dropping. Just no other time available. Won't be using the Saws All though. I really don't want to cut up the car.

[B.Watts]

I went to the TC Kline bushing as only their's and CG's have a lip to keep the bushing from pushing out the back under braking, etc. Ran into this problem a few years ago and had to jack the car up and push the bushing back into place between every run, as it would pop out after about 1 1/4 runs.

These bushings are nothing too complicated...find someone with a lathe and you can have a centered bushing in no time. Someone like RRT can probably turn a couple out for you, but not sure what the cost would be on some one-offs. Worth calling to ask?

[epj3]

I am running 4100 w/camber plates, 17x8.5 k1s with 235/40 Hankooks and no rubbing I think . I noticed that when the wheel is completely lifted in the air (using a jack) and I try to spin it by hand, it slightly rubs against the adjustable sway bar link mounting bracket in certain wheel positions. This happens on both fronts. When the car is lowered to the ground though I don't believe it happens anymore, at least I couldn't hear it. I tried pushing the car with the engine off to test that. I haven't tried adding camber yet, don't know what that would do to that situation. Should I be running a spacer up front?

BTW, my sway bar adjusters (with stock links) are currently sitting 5 threads higher than what M13 has his set at in the picture, is that ok? (12.75" f height)

This may not be the proper way to set them, but I adjusted my sway mount bracket so that the sway bar (the mount points on both sides) are parallel to the ground. Remember, I think the threaded part on a sportline is not the same as the threaded part on the 4100's but again, could be wrong.

[ChosenGSR]

This may not be the proper way to set them, but I adjusted my sway mount bracket so that the sway bar (the mount points on both sides) are parallel to the ground. Remember, I think the threaded part on a sportline is not the same as the threaded part on the 4100's but again, could be wrong.

I tried to do the same, with the front on the ramps I slightly angled it to be parallel to the angle of the car. I ended up with the mounting point being 9 threads up from the bottom, this is with 12.75" height I hope I'm in the ballpark.

[fsmtnbiker]

I set mine to be the same distance up from the bottom of the strut as the stock parts, as a starting point.

Ideally the swaybar arms will be parallel to the ground when the car is sitting on the ground, to give the best range of motion and linear leverage.

[epj3]

I tried to do the same, with the front on the ramps I slightly angled it to be parallel to the angle of the car. I ended up with the mounting point being 9 threads up from the bottom, this is with 12.75" height I hope I'm in the ballpark.

Yea - I pretty much mounted them, and guessed at how far they had to go up. I measured from bottom of the strut to the top of the hole for the sway link and made sure both sides were even. So far it seems to be in the perfect spot.

I set mine to be the same distance up from the bottom of the strut as the stock parts, as a starting point.

Ideally the swaybar arms will be parallel to the ground when the car is sitting on the ground, to give the best range of motion and linear leverage.

The problem with setting it the same as stock is that the car's chassis is lower relative to the entire strut assmebly - I thought of doing this, but would have ended up with the tab way too high.

[Alan Coles]

These bushings are nothing too complicated...find someone with a lathe and you can have a centered bushing in no time. Someone like RRT can probably turn a couple out for you, but not sure what the cost would be on some one-offs. Worth calling to ask?

Thanks for the idea Mr. Watts. As usual, you're a good source of common-sense.
Perhaps,that's why they say 2 heads are better than one.

Dahhh! Hadn't thought about making them. Through my co-driver, I have access to all the equipment needed (even hydro jet cutter, CNC, etc.) including the delrin, so that's not a problem, we can fabricate most anything stainless, aluminum, etc. Just got off the phone with him about an hour ago when we decided to fab up some derlin steering rack travel stops to stop rubbing on the fender liner.

I just need to figure out if there is actually a difference in the dimensions on the 95 vs 96-99 arms that the bushing affects, and if it's significant enough to create a problem. Anyone know for sure?

Regards, Alan

[BJO]

Alan, bimmerworld makes a Delrin centered FCAB.

[clopez95m3]

I just need to figure out if there is actually a difference in the dimensions on the 95 vs 96-99 arms that the bushing affects, and if it's significant enough to create a problem. Anyone know for sure?

Regards, Alan

Geometry wise if you put an offset bushing on a car that was meant for a centered one then the wheel is pushed forward in the wheel well. So if you run big tires they may end up rubbing. On a buddy's race car running 18" slicks it was enough to make contact with the rear edge of the bumper cover.

I hung onto a set of centered delrin ones from BW but I believe they are NLA. They had a piece of cf as a backing plate to keep them in place. Another thing folks do is drill and tap the stock bracket and insert a set screw to keep the bushing in place (mostly from rotating). I didn't find it necessary to do that on mine.

Carlos.

[Alan Coles]

Alan, bimmerworld makes a Delrin centered FCAB.

Thanks. I'd missed that, it defaults to the offset bushing but they do show the centered one in the pull-down listing/pricing.

Geometry wise if you put an offset bushing on a car that was meant for a centered one then the wheel is pushed forward in the wheel well. So if you run big tires they may end up rubbing. On a buddy's race car running 18" slicks it was enough to make contact with the rear edge of the bumper cover...

Thanks Carlos. It appears as though I have some room to have the wheel move back (going from 95 car/arm/bushing to 95 car/arm with a 96-99 bushing) but don't know if there is enough.


This one below is with different suspension my street rims and my old street tires (225/40/18 vs current 245/35/18 street and 265/35/18 track) so there's a little less room now but it does show that the wheel is well centered in the wheelwell with the offset bushings so one would presume going to centered will move the wheel back toward the doors and away from the front bumpers, just wondering if anyone knows if there'll still be enough room.

... I hung onto a set of centered delrin ones from BW but I believe they are NLA...

Still listed, but that doesn't necessarily mean still available, sometimes it can take awhile for internet stores to get updated.