AST Suspension

[m3balance]

Hello All

I would like to hear from ppl that have upgradet to AST 4100/4200 from TCKline SA and DA and also from GC SA. Perhaps, some can compare the
ride from Moton CS and AST.

- comfort low and high speed (street imperfektions, bumps)
- performance low and high speed
- was it worth the upgrade perf. and comf. wise?

Igor

[fsmtnbiker]

You probably won't get much input on the 4200's yet, as those of us in the first group that ordered them are still waiting to receive them. I'll definitely post a full review when I get mine. I've got some direct comparison as well, several friends with TCK DAs and I've had AD DAs.

[Kevinlpl]

I am interested in hearing as well. Currently on my 97, I run the TCKline DAs, I am satisfied except for the noise from the rear. I just put SAs on the rear tonight so I don't have to listen to the chatter for street driving. I will simply put the DAs back on for the track when I change pads and tires.

If the AST DAs have good reviews that way be an option for my future and my 98 M3. Post those reviews when available!

[4ZPN]

Same here. I was thinking about replacing the TC Kline DAs if the AST dampers turn out well.

I just put SAs on the rear tonight so I don't have to listen to the chatter for street driving.

How much difference do you notice between the SAs and DAs? Performance? Daily driving?

[m3balance]

It would be nice, to compare the dyno of the shocks

On other Forum i found
First Dyno > AST 4100 rear's


Second Dyno > GC Koni 1289 SA rear's


Interresting in Dyno from the AST 4200, Moton CS, TCK SA DA, GC AD,


> 100 pounds are 45.35kgf
> 100mm = 3.937 inch

[Kevinlpl]

Same here. I was thinking about replacing the TC Kline DAs if the AST dampers turn out well.

How much difference do you notice between the SAs and DAs? Performance? Daily driving?

On the street I notice no difference in ride or handling between the DAs and SAs in two days of driving. Except of course no noise from the rear shocks. I am happy to now have a car making no noise on the street except for a little noise noticeable at low speeds for the Motorforce Camber plates up front.

[Kevinlpl]

I am anxious to hear about the AST SAs and DAs from folks using them on the street and at the track, in camparison to what they had previously.

[m3balance]

a little puzzle more,

Brian Hanchey www.vorshlag.com

4100 and 4200 share the same base valving so the ride is very similar. The difference is that you can turn up the 4200's compression to increase it 400 pounds making it ride rougher. Nice thing is there's an adjuster on the body of the shock so you can always turn it up for the track and down for the street.


From BJO

Igor, the AST's are amazing considering my spring rate of xxx nm Front/xxx nm Rear with very good ride comfort. The car is not bouncy at all, but it can be stiff over sharp bumps. Over big bumps on track there is alot of control especially during the downslope and into a dip. They are a great coilover kit. My car is not a daily driver, but with this coilover, I feel that I can daily drive it comfortably.

[WK446]

Great thread. I am anxious to hear more first hand accounts as well...

[Fair]

We have our new www.AST-USA.com website up (2 days now!). Its not 100% finished but its getting close. We are adding pictures and tech to this every day. We took pictures of the E36 4300 shocks 2 days ago that need to be added...



4300 teaser pics!

The first big batch of production 4200 doubles are being completed in Holland today with air shipment as soon as Monday. Most are already spoken for by 4200 testers so we have another batch queued up.

We will look at the various questions here and get back with some tech as soon as possible. Subjective opinions from end users of our AST shocks are also welcome! We've heard good things so far, and we use AST shocks ourselves on our race and street cars - with great results.

[John in Houston]

I will have my 4200's installed within 2 days of receiving them (sometimes the 15 month old takes precedence ). I'll give street impressions soon thereafter and auto-x feedback following the next event.

[fsmtnbiker]

I will have my 4200's installed within 2 days of receiving them (sometimes the 15 month old takes precedence ). I'll give street impressions soon thereafter and auto-x feedback following the next event.

Same here, unless I'm out of town (Aug 24-26th)... Then they'll be in the following Monday.

I'm getting the tires mounted today, John... Maybe I'll actually stand a chance at the next autocross!

[hancheyb]

I knew I should have never given out that dyno plot. That's from a similar shock to what the 4100 is, but it is not the same and shouldn't be used for comparison to anything.

For example, here is a custom set of 4300s we built for a customer's Miata.



He's a picky mechanical engineer type. In fact, he came up with what the theoretical plots should have been before we told AST what he wanted. Then we told AST spring rates and they built the dampers to match.



I sent him the dyno plot and his response was, "that's exactly what I wanted." So, putting any dyno plot on here doesn't do justice to what we're capable of building. This is just one example.

ASTs can be whatever you want them to be.

To be fair, this is true on many dampers, but even the 4100s can be custom valved if you wanted them. We charge extra, but it can be done in days, not weeks. I just revalved the Subaru 4100 shocks we're testing the other day. This design is built off the 4300s without the external reservoir. The reservoir allows for more control over the compression adjustment (High/Low speed), but most monotubes still have (or can have) shim stacks for rebound and compression on the main piston which is what we do for all 4x00 series dampers. 4300 shims on the main piston for compression are really just spacers since they aren't needed.

But really, it doesn't begin to stop there. We can change out bleed screws in the main piston stack to control adjustment, we have various shim diameters and thicknesses. We can add/remove bypasses on the piston. We even have different seals and oils depending on your goals. Also, we can change the extended length if you decide to run shorter springs.

What we've done with the 4100 and 4200 is build what we feel is a great damper setting that can be used on the street or track PLUS give you flexibility for the future. We can always rebuild them.

I'll add some quotes I've personally heard from happy customers.

"I didn't know I could go that fast!"

"I needed these two years ago!"

[vodomagoo]

Any thing for e30's or plans on having something available in the 4300 level of shock?

[hancheyb]

Any thing for e30's or plans on having something available in the 4300 level of shock?

But of course. We have a set of singles headed our way. AST has been making 4300 style shocks for E30s for many years. For E30 M3's it is best if we send them a set of hubs (uprights). They weld a new tube onto that. Non M E30s can use inserts if they choose to.

[m3balance]

Any New's from the AST owner's???

[byl]

I have some and like them (S1). on full soft it's perfect for road usage, front is almost as confortable as stock, rear seems to be a bit harder. great on the track too.

[John in Houston]

Any New's from the AST owner's???

The 4200s should be in owner's hands next week unless Hanchey is blowing smoke up my arse

Seriously... should be here next week. Means I will have them on my car for the Sept 1 auto-x and the (1 hour) drive down to Colorado Springs on I-25.

[hancheyb]

The 4200s should be in owner's hands next week unless Hanchey is blowing smoke up my arse

Seriously... should be here next week. Means I will have them on my car for the Sept 1 auto-x and the (1 hour) drive down to Colorado Springs on I-25.

As far as you know.

[=BA=]

These have been around here for many years, but have different names than 4100, 4200 and 4300. They are called Sportline, Sportline II and Competition over here.

They had some problems with a too weak construction in the past, problems like ARB mounts shearing off, cracked springperches and blown dampers in the past but they seem to have sorted that out.

Their 3way competition shocks are very nicely priced though, if you go shopping with Intrax, JRZ or Moton over here you probably get 2way shocks withouth low speed setting for that price.

[hancheyb]

These have been around here for many years, but have different names than 4100, 4200 and 4300. They are called Sportline, Sportline II and Competition over here.

They had some problems with a too weak construction in the past, problems like ARB mounts shearing off, cracked springperches and blown dampers in the past but they seem to have sorted that out.

Their 3way competition shocks are very nicely priced though, if you go shopping with Intrax, JRZ or Moton over here you probably get 2way shocks withouth low speed setting for that price.

I'd like to clarify a couple of statements here.

Yes, AST has been around a while, but none of the 4x00 line are the ones you mentioned. They are all specifically built to Vorshlag's specs. We chose the new naming convention to keep them distinct.

4100
Yes, this one is similar to Sportline 1s, but the bodies are threaded longer so you can run one 6" spring (no TUV issues here in the States), the valving is different mainly we use the Competition damper's adjuster (not the Sportline's) which allows more control. Shocks only, $1500. Kit shown is $2299.



4200
This shock has never been seen before through AST. We were the first ones to run the prototypes. They are nothing like the SP2. They are double adjustable, non inverted struts/shocks. The first sets will be here next week. Starts at $2500.



4300
This is loosely based on the Competition model, but again the only thing it really shares is the reservoir. The bodies are different. They are not inverted and they are built more for our use here in the States, i.e., no helper spring so we can run 18x10s and 265mm tires up front. Variations of this set will start below $4000. An incredible price for what you get.



As far as quality goes. I'm sure they had issues getting started. Most do. Today, they require that we were fully trained on rebuilds and revalving. They sent one of their best over for a few days for training. He looks Dutch right?

[CABimmer]

4300s

[empty]

How does the technology compare to Moton or Ohlins? Hit me with the specifics, its been a while since engineering school, but I think I can still recall most of it.

Thanks,
Mike

[hancheyb]

We don't have fancy marketing materials just yet. The concept of a monotube, nitrogen charged damper is something that all of these high-end models share. You have a CNC milled piston with bypasses, shim stacks on either side. Of course you hone the bores for minimal friction, use teflon lined seals and flat bearings. Hardened shafts, TIG welded bodies. The things you'd expect.



Everyone has their variation of pistons. Some can allow fluid to bypass all the time. You can change the bleed screws to vary this as well. Stacking shims alone is magic. Different configurations create different results. This allows complete customization if you want it.

AST adds two o-rings to make double sure they don't leak. This is a common issue on shocks. "My new shocks are leaking!" Ever heard that? Well, most of the time they are "sweating", but that can be normal in some models. AST added the extra o-ring to ease customer's minds even though this is overkill.



The performance in a monotube comes down to making sure you use the highest quality shims available. Cheap shims will lose their flexibility and start matching the shape of the piston. You can actually see the shim develop indentations where they get "sucked" into the piston passages. Quality shims give you consistent performance every time and minimize this effect for years of use.

[SG_M3]

AST adds two o-rings to make double sure they don't leak. This is a common issue on shocks. "My new shocks are leaking!" Ever heard that? Well, most of the time they are "sweating", but that can be normal in some models. AST added the extra o-ring to ease customer's minds even though this is overkill.

Isn't this just adding friction, "sticktion", in a race shock?