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Thread: The Official Auto-to-Manual Transmission Swap Thread

  1. #26
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    88 M3, 90 M3, 91 318is
    do you know what ratio my diff is?
    97 328isA (non sport package)

    thanks!
    Joe

  2. #27
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    Turbo E36
    Originally posted by funkmasta
    Right.
    They share a *reservoir*, but the master cylinders are very much different things! are you planning on using the brake pedal to engage/disengage the clutch?

    The clutch pedal is connected to a seperate hydraulic system that engages/disengages the clutch. however, it shares a reservior with the brake master cylinder. The clutch master cylinder mounts between the clutch pedal and the firewall, and has two hoses. One hose goes to the reservoir @ the brake master cylinder, and the other hose goes to the slave cylinder @ the clutch.

    hope this helps!
    Joe
    No...really?! I know that I am only saying that the brake one u dont have to... Ok what ever.... AND no I dont plan to use the brake to depress the clutch. TWO MASTER CYLINDERS< AS U KNOW. I am stating the again (CAPS) "BRAKE" MC

  3. #28
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    haha my bad, I read it wrong. I thought you said:
    -What r u talking about the clutch master cylinder...

    but in reality you said:
    -What u r talking about is the clutch master cylinder...

    no worries bro.
    hey you wanna race to the finish? how close are you? I will be done hopefully tomorrow, but realistically, more like Friday.

    Joe

  4. #29
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    Just ground the neutral safety switch and you solve the problem of not being able to start the car. You can get fancy and install the factory clutch sensor

    You'll also need to rewire the backup lights, the auto harness is different than the manual. You'll be better off doing that rewire before you put the tranny in, makes for a cleaner install since you have to run the wire through the floorboard and along the trans tunnel to the connector located on the front passenger side of the the manual transmission.

    You CAN resuse the resevoir from an auto just fine, the extra nipple is there, just needs to be cut to allow fluid into the new line you run to the clutch master cyl.

    You most likely have a 3.91 open differential on your 328, you may be lucky and have the optional LSD 3.91, but that's a pretty slim chance on a non-Sport. Compare that to 3.15 for '92-'95 325's and '95 M3's, 3.23 for manual '96+ M3's (and the 95 LTW), 3.38 for auto M3's, 3.46 for 318ti's, and a super tall 2.89 for manual 328's.

    Some other things you'll need are the bushing mount that the manual shift carrier fits into in the driveline tunnel, some way of securing the slave cyl. to the auto (no bracket in my '93 for it, so we cut off the '95 donor car bracket and tack welded it to my firewall, not something you can do if you just buy a kit rather than having a whole parts car sitting right there), possibly clips for the pedal assembly shaft, a driver's side under dash panel with cutouts for the clutch pedal, new trans mount bracket (auto is different than manual, obviously), and a lot of patience.
    93 325is - total M3 conversion and more - Dinan SC kit - RMS aftercooler and tuning - 395rwhp on 91 octane.
    "....She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself." -Han Solo

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  5. #30
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    Turbo E36
    Originally posted by funkmasta
    haha my bad, I read it wrong. I thought you said:
    -What r u talking about the clutch master cylinder...

    but in reality you said:
    -What u r talking about is the clutch master cylinder...

    no worries bro.
    hey you wanna race to the finish? how close are you? I will be done hopefully tomorrow, but realistically, more like Friday.

    Joe
    No worries. It is all cool. I may be doen by fri too, I am doing this in my spare time. I have a problem, because the tranny brace is the wrong one I got.

  6. #31
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    Turbo E36
    Originally posted by Croak
    Just ground the neutral safety switch and you solve the problem of not being able to start the car. You can get fancy and install the factory clutch sensor

    You'll also need to rewire the backup lights, the auto harness is different than the manual. You'll be better off doing that rewire before you put the tranny in, makes for a cleaner install since you have to run the wire through the floorboard and along the trans tunnel to the connector located on the front passenger side of the the manual transmission.

    You CAN resuse the resevoir from an auto just fine, the extra nipple is there, just needs to be cut to allow fluid into the new line you run to the clutch master cyl.

    You most likely have a 3.91 open differential on your 328, you may be lucky and have the optional LSD 3.91, but that's a pretty slim chance on a non-Sport. Compare that to 3.15 for '92-'95 325's and '95 M3's, 3.23 for manual '96+ M3's (and the 95 LTW), 3.38 for auto M3's, 3.46 for 318ti's, and a super tall 2.89 for manual 328's.

    Some other things you'll need are the bushing mount that the manual shift carrier fits into in the driveline tunnel, some way of securing the slave cyl. to the auto (no bracket in my '93 for it, so we cut off the '95 donor car bracket and tack welded it to my firewall, not something you can do if you just buy a kit rather than having a whole parts car sitting right there), possibly clips for the pedal assembly shaft, a driver's side under dash panel with cutouts for the clutch pedal, new trans mount bracket (auto is different than manual, obviously), and a lot of patience.
    the assembly that is on my pedal box, has the master clutch cylinder on it already. My pedal box is in, just thave to wire it, and fluids, and take out my lightened UD pulley

  7. #32
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    ///M3
    Not to scare anyone away or anything after doing the tranny swap can people ever tell that you originally had a auto in there? besides the vin number of course.

    What if i just took it to the dealer? would they refuse to service it?

  8. #33
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    Well, you void any warranty you'd have, for sure. About the only way to tell is to look at the holes in the firewall and drive tunnel (which you can plug), the round diagnostic harness connector near the power steering pump that the trans ECU used to plug into if you didn't remove it, and of course, the VIN number tells the tale.
    93 325is - total M3 conversion and more - Dinan SC kit - RMS aftercooler and tuning - 395rwhp on 91 octane.
    "....She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself." -Han Solo

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  9. #34
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    ///M3
    So basically if you do everything right.. its flawless except vin.

  10. #35
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    95 318is, 78 320
    *bump* I'd still like more info on the electrical/computer issues involved, specifically 'tricking the neutral switch' to allow the car to be started... the mechanical side of it seems very straightforward. I don't want any hidden catches like tricking a computer (and not knowing how to do it) causing any future install of mine to go awry...
    Kevin
    2000 Toyota Land Cruiser [2020-Present]
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    Knoxville, TN

  11. #36
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    There are no computer tricks. You find the neutral safety switch, locate the ground wire (check your Bentley, and if you don't have a Bentley, or BMW tech manual, you shouldn't be doing this in the first place) The ground is not hard to locate, it's the brown one, and run it to ground, just that simple.

    The auto ECU is out of the loop at this point, it is doing nothing and controlling nothing, has no effect on the car at all, does not communicate with the engine DME on an OBD1 car, just reads data from the car (basically, RPM, transmission status, and road speed), and regulates shift points and communicates faults via the dash, and can go into limp mode. Pretty dumb computer, and none of its functions has any bearing on a manual transmission.

    You can retire it in place, or remove it, whatever you'd like, though you might trip a fault light on the dashboard, which is a two minute job to disable by plugging the light socket. I wouldn't recommend trying to take the trans harness out, it's sort of integrated into the entire harness, just cover up the exposed sockets and let it be.

    As far as the reverse lights, you'll need a manual trans reverse light switch, which is in located in the center console.

    Basically when the shifter is moved into the reverse gate, it pushes a contact in, completing a ground and turning on the lights. You have to locate the old automatic plug, which connected inside the transmission tunnel, run about two feet of two conductor wire to it, and splice into the ground and power leads. Shit simple to test to see if it's working.

    Hardest part is routing the wire, insultating it and tucking it up out of the way, thats why I suggested you do that first, rather than last like we did, it'd be a lot easier if the trans and driveshaft were not in the way.
    93 325is - total M3 conversion and more - Dinan SC kit - RMS aftercooler and tuning - 395rwhp on 91 octane.
    "....She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts, kid. I've made a lot of special modifications myself." -Han Solo

    CarDomain page

  12. #37
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    Nov 2002
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    Strongsville Ohio
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    use to drive a 98 gtp with a few "go" mods92 Alpine White 325i
    after going through these posts...

    Final Verdict Gentlemen?

    I'm looking at doing the 5spd swap. Any parts lists would be great.

    Thank you.

    1992 (e36 with 09/91 build date) 325i Auto
    yeah turbo saturn!
    1992 Alpine White 325i
    98 Sleeper GTP

  13. #38
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    I finished my swap last night. I will compile a final parts list and post here. (note: for my application, others could differ slightly!!), so far so good!!!
    Last edited by shogun; 01-24-2016 at 07:50 AM.

  14. #39
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    98M3 4d
    Aight, got the swap kit from zionville, want to do the labor soon, but some reputable shop quoted me 17hr with $85per hr rate. so..$1500 labor sounds just right??? i think its about right if they warrant their work..........anywaz...the guy said that the pedal assemb and the ECU..computer wiring r the most differcult and gonna take around like 4 hrs to do .............is that true???? or they r just tryin to make more money out of the conversation" i once got quoted around $5000!!!! just for the labor...

    CrayzeeM3! $600 for the swap? are they goood?

    thanks alot for any information would be helpful

    by the way...i will put all a list of all the parts needed for the swap....its from the kit i bought

    peace

    actp16

  15. #40
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    The pedal assembly is not difficult if you know what you are doing. the only reason it took me 4 hours is because I kept doing things in the wrong order! for the master cylinder, connect the hard line first!

    HTH

    Joe

  16. #41
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    They are Auto Impoty works. Call them up at (626) 287-4657. Ask for andy.

  17. #42
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    The list

    E36 tranny swap kit part list/ZF from the zionville kit hope this could help

    tranny
    shift support arm, body bushing
    shift link w. washers + clips
    shift handle with nylon cup + bushin
    shift knob, console boot with sound insultor
    lock pin, support arm
    trans to block bolts(set)
    guibo bolts(set), guibo
    c.v. joint nub(set)
    trans support br
    trans mountsx2
    reverse light switch
    jump wire-rev light switch
    flywheel bolts(new)x8
    throwout bearin
    flywheel/clutch/pp assy
    clutch slave
    soft line/hard line
    O2 sensor bracket
    drive shaft
    pedal assembly with cluth master

    actp16

  18. #43
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    Re: The list

    Im adding my $.02 here

    Originally posted by actp16 (with Funkmastas input indented)
    E36 tranny swap kit part list/ZF from the zionville kit hope this could help

    tranny
    Duh

    shift support arm, body bushing
    the shift support arm varied by model and year... dont ask how I know

    shift link w. washers + clips
    shift handle with nylon cup + bushin
    If you get a short shift at the same time, you can bypass the two previous. most short shift kits do not come with the selector rod though. if going the short shift route, look up rogue for this piece modified for short shift.

    shift knob, console boot with sound insultor
    Psst I have an extra console boot

    lock pin, support arm
    lock pin FOR the support arm, to clear this up.

    trans to block bolts(set)
    you can reuse the bolts that came off your auto...

    guibo bolts(set), guibo
    driveshaft
    I got my driveshaft lengthened, balanced, new guibo and hardware for just under $200

    c.v. joint nub(set)
    hmmmm whats this? (besides something I didnt do)

    trans support br
    once again, this will vary by model and year. Even if you buy an M3 transmission, dont get the M3 brace. get the one thats made for the manual version of your car

    trans mountsx2
    the ones from your auto will work. new ones are cheap.

    reverse light switch
    I have no reverse lights... where is this switch?

    jump wire-rev light switch
    see above

    flywheel bolts(new)x8
    These arent cheap.

    throwout bearin
    flywheel/clutch/pp assy
    clutch pressure plate and throwout bearing should all come in one kit. for a flywheel, you might as well buy a light weight flywheel if your only other option is to buy one new.

    clutch slave
    a clutch slave is a clutch slave is a clutch slave

    soft line/hard line
    clarification: the soft line goes from the clutch master cylinder to the resorvoir on the brake master cylinder, the hard line goes from the clutch master cylinder to the slave cylinder

    O2 sensor bracket
    Ummm, I had no modifications for my 02 sensors. did I do something wrong or maybe this is unnecessary.

    pedal assembly with cluth master
    all you need is the pedal and related bushings/clips/pin for master cylinder/spring (at least for my application). The brake pedal shares its mount with the clutch pedal. dont forget a new brake pedal! The clutch master cylinder is connected to the clutch pedal and is on the interior of the car! strange realization for me.\

    actp16
    hope this helped!!!!

    joe

  19. #44
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    i am in the middle of the swap right now, but now the drive shaft i got has 4 bolt differential input flange but my automatic differential has 6 bolts..i need s 6 bolt one i suppose.....kinda confused right now..do i have to get a 96+ differential? cuz i dont tthink anyone sell just the flange alone......please help! guys
    Last edited by shogun; 01-24-2016 at 07:53 AM.

  20. #45
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    sorry i just looked at my diff and it is a 3.91 WHOOOOOT time for some power i guess my 92 325i auto does have a 3.91 and that makes sence. i was like 3.15 in an auto????nah can't be. oh well i am happy and almost ready to do the swap.
    Only a company that built airplane engines could build a car to make your heart soar. BMW "The Ultimate Driving Machine"

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  21. #46
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    hey all that are doing this...

    turnermotorsport.com clearance section has driveshafts and some other parts that are significantly cheaper.

    FYI...

    ...and i wanna see some finished products soon... :

    good luck!
    timmay!




  22. #47
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    Re: HELP!!

    Originally posted by actp16
    i am in the middle of the swap right now, but now the drive shaft i got has 4 bolt differential input flange but my automatic differential has 6 bolts..i need s 6 bolt one i suppose.....kinda confused right now..do i have to get a 96+ differential? cuz i dont tthink anyone sell just the flange alone......please help! guys



    thanks alot

    ac
    ///M cars have 6 bolt flanges for the diff, and non ///M cars have 4 bolt diff flanges

    Im guessing you have a 95 M3

    see ya
    Joe

  23. #48
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    bimmuh
    Originally posted by actp16
    ...the guy said that the pedal assemb and the ECU..computer wiring r the most differcult and gonna take around like 4 hrs to do .............is that true???? or they r just tryin to make more money out of the conversation" i once got quoted around $5000!!!! just for the labor...

    Sounds fine to me. I actually was told the same thing. The mechanical work is simple, it's the computer and wiring stuff that's the hardest. This is from bavarian motors in phx...

    as for the $5000.. ouch.. i think it totally depends on where you go.. i was quoted various prices at different places.. the conclusion.. shops that specialize in racing or specialize in ///M cars will do it for cheapest.. cause they've done it before... just thought I'd add that to the topic..
    Don't like my driving? Get off the sidewalk!

  24. #49
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    I have OBDII and did not change the computer, and OBDII is going to be more of a electrical nightmare than OBDI.

    BUT, since they are a shop and are liable for all they do, they may HAVE to do something. I just tied the loose transmission wire to the undercarriage.
    If the person knows what they are doing, (ie, done it before), then wiring is hardly an issue.

    anyway,
    good luck

    Joe

  25. #50
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    I finally did the swap. I am doing it again on another car. It's farking easy!
    Last edited by shogun; 01-24-2016 at 08:06 AM.

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