M Powered: A Motor Swap Story

[SpasticDwarf]

Thanks Mike

[Butler]

You got the S54 on Ebay??

[SpasticDwarf]

You got the S54 on Ebay??

found it on ebay, went down and got it in person.

[CrazyxMidget]

[bigbooste36]

Ya man most def I'll email you . The car is just about done at the body shop the motor is out already and to mout the new one will take me a few hours the tricky part is the wiring but hey.. I have full harness and ews and dme even the fly by wire for the throttle bodies so. I don't really have a time set but i hope by the end of july early august.. I love to drive and I have never seen Tennessee before so it would be fun. but we'll keep each other up to date if you have any questions email me at d_dracing@hotmail.com and if you have msn add me... good luck

[techno550]

No loss of vanos, No loss of E-throttle, I'm building standalone to control both cams based off MS&SE hopefully I'll be able to sell a plug and play standalone ECU for this swap in the near future for others who may be in need.
Erik

You'll need a LOT of MS boxes to control all that.

MS doesn't have the anything to control a fully fuctioning S54.

Done right, you'd need bigger VE and ign tables, and a seperate VE and ign table for EACH cam step, which should be at most 0.5 degrees.
I suppse you could get close though.
One MS controlling the intake cam
one controlling the exhaust cam
one talking to the two and acting as the *main control box*... which in turn selects another bank of MS boxes to do the fuel/spark....
3 ms boxes per cam position (gotta have 6 real injector outputs, right?)
there's 60 degrees of intake cam movement, and 45 deg of exhaust cam movement.
So if we assume that usually the exhaust cam will follow (roughly) the intake cam for given load/RPM/etc we can use the dual table bit inside each MS and make up for exhaust cam changes... and thus cut the number of needed MS boxes down a bunch.
so we'd then only need 60 deg / 0.5deg = 120 MS box clusters.
120 clusters of 3 boxes each means 360 fuel/spark boxes and 3 "cam/control" boxes.
now you just need a signal switch box of sorts to select the approprate MS to run the motor for that point in time.... and 363 MS units.

Jon, UrineMachine on the boards, could run a lawnmower with MegaSquirt, and I'm sure if he was bored, he could program a space shuttle with it too.

He probably could put a MS on a lawnmower. I for one would be amused when it no longer ran as well as it once did on the stock carb though. Not that MS isn't a great product (for certain applications), but I am extremely underwhelmed with Jon's abilities and knowledge in general.

The MS boxes should be used as carb replacements, or replacements for even more crude EFI systems. They, however, should not be used to replace more advanced systems.

[Studie]

Need updates like a negg needs a pozzy slam.

[///M3///M5]

Jon, UrineMachine on the boards, could run a lawnmower with MegaSquirt, and I'm sure if he was bored, he could program a space shuttle with it too.

Have you read half the crap that Jon says? Do you even know what MS is?

A lawnmower...

So could I.

An S54...

Good luck.

You do understand that MS has trouble with single, non variable VANOS? Dual VANOS is infinitely variable.

"Running, and running well, are two completely different things."

[Bruse Wayne]

cant wait to see the finished project....GL

[Forged328]

Have you read half the crap that Jon says? Do you even know what MS is?

A lawnmower...

So could I.

An S54...

Good luck.

You do understand that MS has trouble with single, non variable VANOS? Dual VANOS is infinitely variable.

"Running, and running well, are two completely different things."

Well said

[Jackoosh]

i can't wait for it to be finished...

[JAlfredPrufrock]

Have you read half the crap that Jon says? Do you even know what MS is?

A lawnmower...

So could I.

An S54...

Good luck.

You do understand that MS has trouble with single, non variable VANOS? Dual VANOS is infinitely variable.

"Running, and running well, are two completely different things."

your mom is infinitely variable

[///M3///M5]

your mom is infinitely variable

Ouch.

[driftinbmw]

[JAlfredPrufrock]

i know, ill be here all week

make sure to tip your waitress

[Eurotakeover]

V1 scans for cops?

[T-Rex]

Very nice swap man, best of luck! I loved my E36, and when I did my S52 swap I wanted to go S54 but there just wasn't enough info at the time, and I didn't have the garage space or time to do all the pioneering myself. Congrats on adding so much to the community. If your swap works well I know what I'm going to have to buy for a project car

BTW, as much as I hope you can make MS work, I will be extremely shocked if it does. I would strongly recomend just going with AEM and calling it a day.

[Vanos01]

Love to see you drop the engine or the final product. Where are you located in Franklin? Is this a shop our your house?

Good luck!!

[takem2church]

for the first time in my life i didnt even need to jerk off to blwo my load. thats amazing dude keep it up and mad props to you

[rubberdub]

for the first time in my life i didnt even need to jerk off to blwo my load.

So you're a virgin?

[Julz69]

^haha

[Bimmerteck]

You'll need a LOT of MS boxes to control all that.

MS doesn't have the anything to control a fully fuctioning S54.

Michael,

You seem to be a great tuner for OBD 1 Turbo systems with much more potential than you yet realize, I see you asking all the right questons, and I think your set up for the E36 looks great for someone wishing to keep costs down and power up. Mike on the other hand wants His car to be different so I am building several one off modules to coordinate the cams and throttle with a MS system. Don't let these OBD2 systems confuse you, while the cams are variable, only one position is the best for power in any given situation. All other cam settings BMW uses are for emissions purposes only. BMW has to build these vehicles to run in all climates and on several continents for all the markets that they sell to. Luckly I get to reduced the goal on this project to produce maximum horsepower under load while meeting tailpipe emissions at Idle (due to this state's loose emissions requirements on pre OBD2 vehicles). If you put an S54 on the dyno and log the activity of the Vanos with a lab scope, (once the vehicle is at temp) the cams move to roughly three spots, Idle, Partial Load, and 4/5-Full throttle. These three are the only three cam positions I am truly worried about duplicating. The control side of the circuit is decently simple only 4 valves to control the pressurized oil using a PWM signal. It operates much like an idle control valve. My instructor in school was adament about how simple the general electrical control of these systems is once you get down below the system level. Even valvetronic can be simply controlled and toyed with on the bench, and very soon in the vehicles. If you have further questions feel free to PM me, I am always ready to answer a well thought through question.
Erik

[SpasticDwarf]

Michael,

You seem to be a great tuner for OBD 1 Turbo systems with much more potential than you yet realize, I see you asking all the right questons, and I think your set up for the E36 looks great for someone wishing to keep costs down and power up. Mike on the other hand wants His car to be different so I am building several one off modules to coordinate the cams and throttle with a MS system. Don't let these OBD2 systems confuse you, while the cams are variable, only one position is the best for power in any given situation. All other cam settings BMW uses are for emissions purposes only. BMW has to build these vehicles to run in all climates and on several continents for all the markets that they sell to. Luckly I get to reduced the goal on this project to produce maximum horsepower under load while meeting tailpipe emissions at Idle (due to this state's loose emissions requirements on pre OBD2 vehicles). If you put an S54 on the dyno and log the activity of the Vanos with a lab scope, (once the vehicle is at temp) the cams move to roughly three spots, Idle, Partial Load, and 4/5-Full throttle. These three are the only three cam positions I am truly worried about duplicating. The control side of the circuit is decently simple only 4 valves to control the pressurized oil using a PWM signal. It operates much like an idle control valve. My instructor in school was adament about how simple the general electrical control of these systems is once you get down below the system level. Even valvetronic can be simply controlled and toyed with on the bench, and very soon in the vehicles. If you have further questions feel free to PM me, I am always ready to answer a well thought through question.
Erik

hah thanks Erik. Ive been waiting for this post
I dont think a broken strut hat bolt could have lead me to a better tech.

[techno550]

are you saying the modules are seperate from the MS? or the modules are dune with a MS? how do you plan on holding the cam in a fixed position with the MS? adding two cam position sensors and writing code to do closed loop PWM output? with a MS??
MS doesn't have the code space or processor speed for this. One MS can control one cam... as long as it doesn't have to worry about fuel and spark too.

if you're planning on using a simple PWM table based on load and RPM... I can already tell you that won't work as well as what would generally be required. If you can do oil pressure and temperature compensation on that table, that could get you close. Not as precise/reliable (especially on a speed-density tuned motor) as would be ideal though.

You can simplify the system to a given cam position for a certain RPM. The ideal is not stepped advance though, it is a gradual movement.

[Bimmerteck]

are you saying the modules are seperate from the MS? or the modules are dune with a MS? how do you plan on holding the cam in a fixed position with the MS? adding two cam position sensors and writing code to do closed loop PWM output? with a MS??
MS doesn't have the code space or processor speed for this. One MS can control one cam... as long as it doesn't have to worry about fuel and spark too.

As I stated "outside the box" (separate) My Black Box has been designed, as a piggy back for MS, Only it moves the cams under certain conditions. I don't have to add any CMP sensors as it already has 2 I can use. I am leaving the OE wiring harness untouched save for a few choice gauge additions (the BMW don't move till the motor's near toast, temp gauge doesn't cut it for the track to me, neither does the your oil pressure dropped a few seconds ago warning light.)

if you're planning on using a simple PWM table based on load and RPM... I can already tell you that won't work as well as what would generally be required. If you can do oil pressure and temperature compensation on that table, that could get you close. Not as precise/reliable (especially on a speed-density tuned motor) as would be ideal though.

I have put S54s to the test while monitoring the Vanos valves with a lab scope. They prefer certain positions, as opposed to others. the movement can be controlled by how many steps it takes to get from on position to another. Watch an M3 with a GT1, It takes almost half a second to move the cams being dampened by the oil. You could probably even see requested CMP VS. actual CMP, on a quality OBD2 Scanner. I don't have to come up with cam control from thin air, all I have to do is Emulate the OE map with variables for load and oil temp.(Critical for viscosity in the S54) then modify the map towards a slightly less emission friendly curve.(read more powerful) Very few of most of the values I watch daily are ideal under any circumstances.

You can simplify the system to a given cam position for a certain RPM. The ideal is not stepped advance though, it is a gradual movement.

It is very rarely a gradual movement in an S54. It picks requested degrees then goes there.
Erik