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Thread: Cam sensor settings for non-vanos cams

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    Yes I have my car setup for rising edge - falling edge plainly doesn't work, but every ECU counts the wheel differently.

    Just keep the polarity idea in mind if you try stuff and it doesn't work.
    Will do and thanks again for the info. on the sensors and 120 deg difference on the wheel.

    The 120 deg difference was what the difference is in the calibration files, as you have to adjust the injection and ignition events for each cylinder for that 120 degree difference. Nothing to do with how the AEM EMS converts the 60-2 wheel to what it recognizes and uses needs to be changed as the NV and VANOS both use a 60-2 trigger wheels.
    Chad Charlton - 913-207-6539, cell phone
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    Hot Rod/Pro-4 Honda CRX - 9.51 @ 155
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    Drag Evo 8 - have motor need cage work

  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcevo View Post
    Will do and thanks again for the info. on the sensors and 120 deg difference on the wheel.

    The 120 deg difference was what the difference is in the calibration files, as you have to adjust the injection and ignition events for each cylinder for that 120 degree difference. Nothing to do with how the AEM EMS converts the 60-2 wheel to what it recognizes and uses needs to be changed as the NV and VANOS both use a 60-2 trigger wheels.
    No I know what I mean is that the logic level of interpretation - sometimes ECUs will interpret inverted polarity or straight polarity (MS does this) based on a setting, others can't. But if I set my VR for inverted polarity and wire it straight, I will have wandering timing like you speak of. That's why I recommended checking the polarity.

    No probs though i'd like to know what you find out.

    Also, when you say the timing is wandering, is it wandering retarded?

  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    No I know what I mean is that the logic level of interpretation - sometimes ECUs will interpret inverted polarity or straight polarity (MS does this) based on a setting, others can't. But if I set my VR for inverted polarity and wire it straight, I will have wandering timing like you speak of. That's why I recommended checking the polarity.

    No probs though i'd like to know what you find out.

    Also, when you say the timing is wandering, is it wandering retarded?
    It will advance.

    In AEM you set the timing of the motor in the ignition map (all vaccuum areas across the entire rpm range) to the same number and zero out all the ignition trims as well(0* or TDC in this example as that is the only mark on the front of the trigger wheel that will correspond to the timing cover of the motor and can be referenced with a timing light).

    Put the timing light on cylinder #1 and dial it to 0 for dial indicated timing lights. Start the car and let it run at idle. Now with the timing light you will be able to tell if the motor is in time and synced with the computer, if not you will advance or retard until spot on and now ignition sync is set.

    To watch for wandering timing, you will rev the motor in neutral, ~5k rpm is good, and again watch with the timing light that it doesn't deviate from 0* or TDC. If it wanders immediately and is advancing real bad then the trigger edge selection is wrong. If it wanders just a hair there is another parameter in the AEM EMS software that can be adjusted up or down to keep things in check.

    When this is done, return the calibrations timing map in the vacuum areas to what you started with before zeroing it out to set timing.
    Chad Charlton - 913-207-6539, cell phone
    www.mkcperformance.com - 913-432-8468

    Hot Rod/Pro-4 Honda CRX - 9.51 @ 155
    Pro Am/SFWD Honda Civic - 9.896 @ 139; Best MPH 151
    DD Evo 8 FPRed E85 - 11.751 @ 123.79 ~ 440whp/380wtq
    Drag Evo 8 - have motor need cage work

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by kcevo View Post
    It will advance.

    In AEM you set the timing of the motor in the ignition map (all vaccuum areas across the entire rpm range) to the same number and zero out all the ignition trims as well(0* or TDC in this example as that is the only mark on the front of the trigger wheel that will correspond to the timing cover of the motor and can be referenced with a timing light).

    Put the timing light on cylinder #1 and dial it to 0 for dial indicated timing lights. Start the car and let it run at idle. Now with the timing light you will be able to tell if the motor is in time and synced with the computer, if not you will advance or retard until spot on and now ignition sync is set.

    To watch for wandering timing, you will rev the motor in neutral, ~5k rpm is good, and again watch with the timing light that it doesn't deviate from 0* or TDC. If it wanders immediately and is advancing real bad then the trigger edge selection is wrong. If it wanders just a hair there is another parameter in the AEM EMS software that can be adjusted up or down to keep things in check.

    When this is done, return the calibrations timing map in the vacuum areas to what you started with before zeroing it out to set timing.
    You probably know this but each tooth is 6 degrees - I just check my timing at 18 degrees so as to not run 0 advance for too long.

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    You probably know this but each tooth is 6 degrees - I just check my timing at 18 degrees so as to not run 0 advance for too long.
    I just feel more comfortable with the factory machined timing mark than one I would make on a tooth by notching it or something.

    I only do this to set timing with no load whatsoever on the motor, and then bring the timing map back in for the area's that I zeroed out.

    All the syncing is doing is making sure 16* in the AEM EMS = 16* at the motor and so forth.
    Chad Charlton - 913-207-6539, cell phone
    www.mkcperformance.com - 913-432-8468

    Hot Rod/Pro-4 Honda CRX - 9.51 @ 155
    Pro Am/SFWD Honda Civic - 9.896 @ 139; Best MPH 151
    DD Evo 8 FPRed E85 - 11.751 @ 123.79 ~ 440whp/380wtq
    Drag Evo 8 - have motor need cage work

  6. #56
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    Not sure if you know or not, but the factory idle timing advance is 9.75 degrees.
    -Curt

    stock CR 92 non-vanos 325 / first ever Holset HY35 powered BMW / custom tubular manifold & motor mount / stock DME tuning / tial 50mm bov / 46mm xspower w.g. / green top injectors / IC piping designed by myself (above subframe of course) / 12x28x3" IC / oil return into pan that seems to work / e21 tranny mounts / custom blow through MAF / koni sport kit / 18x8.5 mvr replica's / various leaks & body colours

  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by e36'n View Post
    Not sure if you know or not, but the factory idle timing advance is 9.75 degrees.
    Good point! That is how Mechtech blew up my motor with over 20 degrees timing with 91 octane. They didn't know about that.
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  8. #58
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    I am FINALLY getting my AEM on the 18th. I might be able to drive this thing in 2007!
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  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by mike radowski View Post
    I am FINALLY getting my AEM on the 18th. I might be able to drive this thing in 2007!
    Good to hear Mike, if you need any info. on which pins to use for the non-vanos cam sensor on the AEM EMS harness let me know.
    Chad Charlton - 913-207-6539, cell phone
    www.mkcperformance.com - 913-432-8468

    Hot Rod/Pro-4 Honda CRX - 9.51 @ 155
    Pro Am/SFWD Honda Civic - 9.896 @ 139; Best MPH 151
    DD Evo 8 FPRed E85 - 11.751 @ 123.79 ~ 440whp/380wtq
    Drag Evo 8 - have motor need cage work

  10. #60
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    Put the timing light on the crank today. It was dead nuts on at idle and ~5000 rpm.

    Cam, I think you'll be up and running next week!!! I'm going in for PT tuning next week.

    Putting a timing light on these engines blows, you have to use a mirror to see the timing mark on the timing cover and use paint to mark the wheel where it's marked. The damn thermostat housing is right in the way!!
    A word of Internet Forum wisdom: Disregard any advice that begins with "I've heard..."

    97 M3/4 - S54, TRM Coilovers, UUC SSK/Sways/LTW Flywheel




  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuasha View Post
    Put the timing light on the crank today. It was dead nuts on at idle and ~5000 rpm.

    Cam, I think you'll be up and running next week!!! I'm going in for PT tuning next week.

    Putting a timing light on these engines blows, you have to use a mirror to see the timing mark on the timing cover and use paint to mark the wheel where it's marked. The damn thermostat housing is right in the way!!
    Holy shit OH MY GOD I think I'm gonna cry man! Too much joy right now!
    I can't thank you enough!
    Where have I been? Astral projecting.

    Quote Originally Posted by jszy25 View Post
    Get drunk with Mike Radowski they said, it'll be fun they said...A broken toe, the worst hangover known to man, and bite marks in my arm said otherwise

  12. #62
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    Guys - to time these motors is way easier. Set the motor to TDC, make a mark on the oil pan, and body of the car, or something that you can "line up" like two sights. Then, mark the spot that correlates TDC to the new "TDC Mark" you made. So basically, you strobe the timing wheel from the ground rather than ass backwards nailing your hand on the cooling fan. Let useful trick I've accustomed to.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by UrineMachine View Post
    Guys - to time these motors is way easier. Set the motor to TDC, make a mark on the oil pan, and body of the car, or something that you can "line up" like two sights. Then, mark the spot that correlates TDC to the new "TDC Mark" you made. So basically, you strobe the timing wheel from the ground rather than ass backwards nailing your hand on the cooling fan. Let useful trick I've accustomed to.
    Damn, would have been useful info yesterday.

    i took the fan off so it wasn't TOO bad.
    A word of Internet Forum wisdom: Disregard any advice that begins with "I've heard..."

    97 M3/4 - S54, TRM Coilovers, UUC SSK/Sways/LTW Flywheel




  14. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuasha View Post
    Damn, would have been useful info yesterday.

    i took the fan off so it wasn't TOO bad.
    Yeah I dunno I figured you prob knew - I stole an enamel paint set from my sister and have Red Green abd Blue paint on my wheel - Red = 6 advance, Green = 12, Blue = 18 - so when strobing the motor I don't have to go in and set my timing to a fixed valve - just run the motor at idle which is about 10 degrees and I can ball park it.

  15. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5mall5nail5 View Post
    Guys - to time these motors is way easier. Set the motor to TDC, make a mark on the oil pan, and body of the car, or something that you can "line up" like two sights. Then, mark the spot that correlates TDC to the new "TDC Mark" you made. So basically, you strobe the timing wheel from the ground rather than ass backwards nailing your hand on the cooling fan. Let useful trick I've accustomed to.
    Over 15 years later and this advice helped me today. Protect this man at all costs. ! #Salute
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