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Thread: ECU "tuning" for Euro 3.2L?

  1. #1
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    Question ECU "tuning" for Euro 3.2L?

    Sorry U.S. guys, this is a bit OT since it only applies to S50B32

    Do any of your guys have dyno sheets or first hand experience with computer upgrades/tuning for the Euro 3.2L motor? I'd love to get another 10-15hp and get rid of the top-speed limiter at the same time but I don't want to pay $700-$1500 if the power gains aren't there. I am also a little concerned about what the aftermarket guys might have done with the VANOS timing. This is one sweet powerplant and I'd hate to mess it up!
    Obviously all the "tuners" claim good power increases but as we all know 90% of the time it is just BS!

    Any info re. these brands?

    -Hamann
    -Superchips
    -Wetterauer
    -HIOP
    -Grp N

  2. #2
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    Check out www.e36coupe.com and www.bm3w.co.uk - both are UK forums and should have people with chipped euro M3s on there...

    Jon

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    Rob,

    I looked into reprogramming the Siemens ECU of the euro 3.2L and, as we all know, it's not as simple as swapping out the factory chip.

    I've decided to go the UNICHIP route. I already have one, but I need to go to the USA to have it programmed on a dyno once I swap in the euro 3.2L.

    I've contacted the other companies abroad (Superchips, Powerchips, etc.) but I just wasn't comfortable with them. Recently, I received an email from Powerchips stating that they have opened an office in California. Their website is:

    http://www.powerchipgroup.com/intera...sp?pid=Bmw0072

    They state:

    "Your BMW M3 3.2 contains the latest style ECU that can be re-programmed through the diagnostic information port. This plug is located under the bonnet and is re-programmed via a cable connected to a Powerchip Laptop Computer. We will ship a laptop computer and all necessary cords in a case to you so you can reprogram your own car. You simply read and follow the comprehensive instructions (including screen shots and photos) to reprogram the standard chip, and program in the Powerchip. This can be done using no tools, and it is designed so that any home handyman can complete the task, quickly, simply and easily. The standard reading of the car is emailed by you to the Powerchip Upgrade Centre, and we email back the customised Powerchip specifically for your car, and your needs. It is a simple task to install the Powerchip file into your car. You then simply ring and get a Fedex pickup and get the case delivered back to our Upgrade Centre.

    In standard form, the M3 3.2 produces 321 hp and 258 lb.-ft.

    Powerchip has a range of chips to suit your car, which can increase it's power to between 333 hp and 337 hp, and it's torque to between 268 lb.-ft and 273 lb.-ft.

    The price of the Powerchips for your car is $990"

    Their claims seem realistic, but I wonder how much of this gain is due to their product or just extra HP/torque that BMW didn't claim? For example, there's been a few dynos (my car as well as others) of the euro 3.0L that prove that this puts out around 300HP rather than the factory's claim of 286HP. Any aftermarket tuner could claim this additional HP as a result of their product.

    Also, Alan Taur's euro 3.2L (with SS exhaust and K&N filter) put down 326 HP and 276 lb-ft or torque. So that's half of Powerchips' claim right there.

  4. #4
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    If you search Powerchips website, there's a PDF document that contains a table and figure showing performance gains from 1500-7500 RPM with either the Powerchip Gold or Gold 98 programming.

  5. #5
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    Originally posted by Big Lun

    I looked into reprogramming the Siemens ECU of the euro 3.2L and, as we all know, it's not as simple as swapping out the factory chip.

    I've decided to go the UNICHIP route. I already have one, but I need to go to the USA to have it programmed on a dyno once I swap in the euro 3.2L.
    Hey,

    I understand that our ECUs don't have a plug in e-prom but they can be reprogrammed just like a '96> U.S. ECU. In most cases you just need to ship the ECU to the "tuner" and they'll ship it back.
    I know another S50B32 owner who considered going UNICHIP route but decided against it for ????? reasons. I am of the opinion that the stock ECU is an amazing unit, as long as you can find someone who knows how to maximize the tuning

    I will do a bit more research to see what is the hot ticket!

  6. #6
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    Powerchips charges big bucks for this reprogram.

  7. #7
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    Originally posted by Big Lun
    Powerchips charges big bucks for this reprogram.
    Superchips is about £5-600 GBP.. They may have a dyno plot on www.superchips.co.uk. From memory, Powerchips licenced a lot of the superchips code when they were setting up in Oz...

    For the price of a superchip + installation, you could poss get a unichip and get it installed, it would be worth investigating... I would imagine you would get better results, especially if you have other mods...

    Jon

  8. #8
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    I like the idea of being able to tune my car on a dyno, as well as adjust for all the mods (CAI, 3.2L intake trumpets, pulleys (soon-to-come), resonator, exhaust). I'm sticking with the UNICHIP.

  9. #9
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    Im thinking about ditching stock management and going standalone. Thats seven miles overseas though.

  10. #10
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    Folks, for your information, Powerchips is an Australian company who specialises in ECU programming.

    However, they are also the distribuitors of Superchips from the UK and all Powerchip programs for BMW are from Superchips.
    96 M3 Evo 3.2(Euro) 321 bhp,6 Spd. You name the mod, I probably have it this side of forced induction.

  11. #11
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    BTW, i've tried and ran with superchips for 2 years. Seem to improve throttle response and smoothed out the power curve from 3500-redline but really couldnt say I was seeing 10-15hp difference as claimed.

    I switched over to Hiop Grp N program after trying 3 other 3.2 with the program and was extremely impressed. The throttle response was the same as superchips but the car was definitely pulling harder from in all gears (except 6th). It felt like I was getting more power out of the engine at any given rev range.

    I havent had it on a dyno so this is rather subjective. I've had my car since new and with every mod I do, I can pretty much feel the difference for better or worst.

    I also have email discussions with several other German tuners like Kempower and G Power on chip tuning and would be glad to share those with everyone.

    I agree with Big Lun, Unichips is an excellent choice for total control and a must if anyone is looking to run hotter cams.

    In HK, we have a very active BMW owners club of which, we have 6 S50B32 M3 members who all run varyign states of tune, right down to a full race Grp A M3 stationed at the Zhuhai circuit in China. We swap notes almost every 2nd day on tuning our cars and sharing ideas on what to do, so we would love to open up our discussions and share more ideas with everyone.
    96 M3 Evo 3.2(Euro) 321 bhp,6 Spd. You name the mod, I probably have it this side of forced induction.

  12. #12
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    Originally posted by jumpman
    ...so we would love to open up our discussions and share more ideas with everyone.
    jumpman,

    I would LOVE your advice/experience (as well as your friends' help) when it comes to tuning the euro motor. bf.com is excellent for overall tuning and maintenance tips, but it falls short when it comes to ideas and experiences for tuning the euro motor. Obviously, the forum is not to blame for this since it's a US site, but I wish I had contact with euro guys as well who are looking for the most performance out of their euro M3's.

    What parameters does the HIOP Group N program control? Have you dyno'd your car to confirm the gains perceived by your "butt" dyno?

    Again, I appreciate your generosity. Charles Wan was very helpful and honest when I inquired about the euro airbox. I know he's got that Grp A 3.0L M3 from Spain. Nice!

    Did the other guy sell his white Hamann M3?
    Last edited by Big Lun; 02-24-2003 at 12:04 AM.

  13. #13
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    Big Lun,

    We'd be more than happy to share our experience (good and bad) with you. Charles is also very active amongst our discussions.

    Arranging to book dyno time now whenever I stop this flying around. The white Hamann M3 is still forsale but the asking is a little high.

    Just for you reference, out discussions have been on the following:

    Chip tuning
    Piggyback systems
    exhaust
    CF Airbox
    Diff and final drive ratios
    Wheels
    brakes
    suspensions
    chassis reinforcements
    weight reductions

    We recently received a BMW Motorsport racing catalogue and may have access to several parts like Grp N pulleys, head gaskets, thermostat...etc.

    should make for some interesting results.
    Last edited by jumpman; 02-24-2003 at 12:40 AM.
    96 M3 Evo 3.2(Euro) 321 bhp,6 Spd. You name the mod, I probably have it this side of forced induction.

  14. #14
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    Originally posted by jumpman
    ...I switched over to Hiop Grp N program after trying 3 other 3.2 with the program and was extremely impressed. The throttle response was the same as superchips but the car was definitely pulling harder from in all gears (except 6th). It felt like I was getting more power out of the engine at any given rev range.

    I havent had it on a dyno so this is rather subjective. I've had my car since new and with every mod I do, I can pretty much feel the difference for better or worst.

    I also have email discussions with several other German tuners like Kempower and G Power on chip tuning and would be glad to share those with everyone.

    jumpman,

    the Hiop is of great interest to me. I have heard their name mentioned many times in Europe but I still haven't seen any independant dyno results. I am quite happy with the throttle response from my S50B32 combined with the JC intake so I am mostly interested in more power I do appreciate your "butt-dyno" increase but it is too bad you didn't do a back-to-back before and after dyno. I think Hiop claims around 15-20hp from their tuning...does this feel right to you?

    Any info on Digi-Tec? The owner has a very fast S50B32 powered M Coupe for the Nurburgring so you'd think he spent lots of time getting it right?!?!

    Thanks,

  15. #15
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    Rob,

    Am trying to get dyno results from other M3 3.2s with HIOP. Whether my butt feels 15-20hp increase...I would say no. I've yet to feel that from any chip/program tuning.

    We've been emailing Digitec of late. Yes, the M Coupe is a definite monster but apparently, he's had some internal work done to the engine. He also doesnt run an HFM, so no way in hell that car is going pass emissions.

    We're looking into the GruppeM intake kit so will let you know the results.
    96 M3 Evo 3.2(Euro) 321 bhp,6 Spd. You name the mod, I probably have it this side of forced induction.

  16. #16
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    Originally posted by jumpman
    Rob,

    Am trying to get dyno results from other M3 3.2s with HIOP. Whether my butt feels 15-20hp increase...I would say no. I've yet to feel that from any chip/program tuning.

    We've been emailing Digitec of late. Yes, the M Coupe is a definite monster but apparently, he's had some internal work done to the engine. He also doesnt run an HFM, so no way in hell that car is going pass emissions.

    We're looking into the GruppeM intake kit so will let you know the results.
    Jumpman,

    it is a disappointment to hear that you didn't "feel" that the 15+hp claim is correct. Is it fair to say the best reason for the Hiop program is improved throttle response? Does it smooth out the engine under part-throttle acceleration? I do like that they've removed the V-max

    I know the Digitec M Coupe has some serious mods (cams, etc) but I'd bet he did lots of tuning on a near stock motor before all the extras. I don't think the E46 M3 CSL runs an HFM but I'd be leery of removing mine to go with an aftermarket Alpha N.

    Why bother with the GruppeM intake? My bet is you'll never beat the JC numbers

  17. #17
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    15hp increase from headers on euro 3.2? Nah ways... Im expecting gruppe n's soon but only looking at a 6-7 hp increase. Maybe...

  18. #18
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    Originally posted by PortalBMW
    15hp increase from headers on euro 3.2? Nah ways... Im expecting gruppe n's soon but only looking at a 6-7 hp increase. Maybe...
    No, no, were are talking about power increases from the Hiop and other computer upgrades, not headers!

    Where did you find the Grp. N headers? Please take a photo, I'd love to see what they look like! I've considered getting some Supersprint headers for my machine but it is very hard to find dyno info for the Euro set-up.

  19. #19
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    Sorry for the confusion. the supersprint headers are basically gruppe n ones but like 1200 less. im in the process of getting them, should be soon. PTG sells them, however, I got/getting mine from an acquaintance.

  20. #20
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    From personal experience stay away from Powerchip...
    Also from what I've heard Unichip is the one of the few worthwhile avenues for us Euros. My dyno numbers are only 4 HP at the wheels of an E46M3 oh and E46M3's here are 343HP.

    How bout pullies and this fan delete for euros ?

    Jumpman- We need to talk !
    Dyno Tested= 184 RWKW or 250HP
    <img border="0"src=http://members.optushome.com.au/nicot/newsigm3-1.jpg>
    <font size="1">06/99' Euro M3 EVOII 3.2L 321HP 6SP "Individual" in Imola Red II Convertible Aniverssary Edition Number 67 of 70.
    - CF Bonnet
    - Rieger E46M3 bumper
    - H&R Coilovers on 19x8F 19x9.5R Modenas on ContiSports
    - E46M3 rear spoiler
    - DDE Gen V & 4300K Xenons
    - E46 Look Eyelids
    - Painted Mouldings
    - Custom CAI
    - Hi Tech Custom Exhaust
    - Pioneer 7950, RF 250.1, RF 400X4, RF 60Xi, MTX Black Gold 3 ways, Blaupunkt rears, Kicker S10L7.

    Stage 1 complete ! Stage 2- Hamann CF splitter,Porsche 4piston calipers, Quad exhaust, ACS CF interior, pulleys and MORE.</font>

  21. #21
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    Originally posted by nicot
    From personal experience stay away from Powerchip...
    Also from what I've heard Unichip is the one of the few worthwhile avenues for us Euros. My dyno numbers are only 4 HP at the wheels of an E46M3 oh and E46M3's here are 343HP.
    Wow, you must have one lucky E36 to make that much power! How did you confirm that your car puts out within 4hp of an E46 M3? I know mine isn't that strong...although I always smoke E46s since my car is ~400lbs lighter

    Lots of people talking about the Unichip but I have yet to see any results. Since my motor is near-stock I'd prefer to spend $$ on properly designed software rather than tons of money and time messing with a Unichip.

    Regards

  22. #22
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    Think we have 333hp here cause its SAE rated. I dont think they actually have more power but I could be wrong. I know my engine doesnt have 321sae HP. Probably 316 or so.

  23. #23
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    R332- We dynoed our cars together E46M3 188KW@wheels and mine 184KW@wheels. the dyno had around 30% drivetrain loss... so 4KW@ wheels equates to around 5KW at the flywheel ..difference between his and mine 252KW-236KW stock is 16KW-5KW= I've gained 11KW(which is 15HP) from exhaust and CAI which is about right...

    So my car is producing around 336HP at the fly..
    Last edited by nicot; 02-26-2003 at 11:26 PM.
    Dyno Tested= 184 RWKW or 250HP
    <img border="0"src=http://members.optushome.com.au/nicot/newsigm3-1.jpg>
    <font size="1">06/99' Euro M3 EVOII 3.2L 321HP 6SP "Individual" in Imola Red II Convertible Aniverssary Edition Number 67 of 70.
    - CF Bonnet
    - Rieger E46M3 bumper
    - H&R Coilovers on 19x8F 19x9.5R Modenas on ContiSports
    - E46M3 rear spoiler
    - DDE Gen V & 4300K Xenons
    - E46 Look Eyelids
    - Painted Mouldings
    - Custom CAI
    - Hi Tech Custom Exhaust
    - Pioneer 7950, RF 250.1, RF 400X4, RF 60Xi, MTX Black Gold 3 ways, Blaupunkt rears, Kicker S10L7.

    Stage 1 complete ! Stage 2- Hamann CF splitter,Porsche 4piston calipers, Quad exhaust, ACS CF interior, pulleys and MORE.</font>

  24. #24
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    Sorry...been flying too much..

    That would be the best way to summarise Hiop. Throttle response is definitely improved. I've driven 2 other E36 Evo 3.2 running stock programs and both had a slight dip at 2500-3500rpm before picking smoothly all the way through. After the Hiop program, this disappeared. (It never happened on my car but was evident on the other 2). Part-throttle acceleration was definitely smoothed out. I agree...VMax removal is nice.

    The E46 M3 CSL didnt run an HFM on the prototype during the press launch but apparently will run an HFM for production.

    The Gruppe M is just something we're trying. We have access to them so would love to see how it runs against the JimC kit.

    Nico....lets talk...would love to share ideas.


    Originally posted by R332
    Jumpman,

    it is a disappointment to hear that you didn't "feel" that the 15+hp claim is correct. Is it fair to say the best reason for the Hiop program is improved throttle response? Does it smooth out the engine under part-throttle acceleration? I do like that they've removed the V-max

    I know the Digitec M Coupe has some serious mods (cams, etc) but I'd bet he did lots of tuning on a near stock motor before all the extras. I don't think the E46 M3 CSL runs an HFM but I'd be leery of removing mine to go with an aftermarket Alpha N.

    Why bother with the GruppeM intake? My bet is you'll never beat the JC numbers
    96 M3 Evo 3.2(Euro) 321 bhp,6 Spd. You name the mod, I probably have it this side of forced induction.

  25. #25
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    mmmusstttt........reeeevvviiiiivvvveeee

    Danny, where do you get HIOP software?

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