Finally a race with an e46 M3

[QuestMCoupe]

So last night on my home from the movies with my girlfriend, I was cruising along 635 and I see some lights coming up fast and they finally pass and its a black Supra and following it is a set of bright HIDs. So I decide to downshift and take off to maybe even up with them but he was coming to fast for me to have time to match speeds so I have to chase. As he got closer I recognized it was a M3 and definately knew it was after he passed me with the dual exhaust badge. After exiting 635 onto 35 south, we got a chance to line up even. I downshifted into 3rd and slowed to about 75...then we both floored it. The rest of 3rd gear we were even and then I shifted to 4th and the M3 started to pull on me. By then end of 4th he was about 2 cars ahead of me and still pulling slowly. We ran twice with pretty much the same outcome. He slowed down and we both gave each other a thumbs up. It turned out it to be a guy I had seen at the local meets a couple of times and he said he knew I had the M3 motor After this race I realized that I need more power... FI, NA or a V8 from a 540...something.

I'm not sure if you're on this board or not but it was a fun race man. Maybe I'll see you at the next meet. You have a very nice car too.

[NoSoup4U]

UDP's baby -- that should help some. A track pipe would also help out your pull on the top end ...

I'd be curious to see how you would do then, I would suspect a 1/2 cl.....

[95DinanM3]

Yes, some UPD's and track pipe should shorten that distance pretty good...Do you have cams already, Joe?

[LY95]

Cams and track pipe and YOU are pulling him...

[nmadd]

Good story. I'll keep an eye open for the "I killed an e46 M3" thread when you get more power.

[VinDieselJetta]

Nice death.

Beautiful car BTW. Love those Angel Eyes!

[injunfeller]

hehehe nice run!

That was my cousin you ran. He knew the guy in the supra and they were playing cat and mouse for a little bit. He told me the supra passed you and then he saw you put your turn signal on so he knew you were game. When you came up on I35 and he saw your hood locks he knew who it was. He'd been hoping to run into you to and he said your car sounded awesome on WOT. What exhaust you have on there? AA?

He's all stock except for some sway bars i believe. I heard he let you get the jump though but he said he was really surprised how your car kept up.

Either way great run and car apparantely sounds pretty mean when you gas it

[QuestMCoupe]

Thank guys. HKS...thanks for the angel eyes compliment.

I already have UDPs but I'm thinking cams and track pipe and I'm ready.

injunfeller, somehow I knew that was cousin, I dont know how I guess because he said he knew I had the M3 motor. Anyway, tell him I said thanks for the WOT comment. I have an ES Tuning exhaust. He's right, one of the races I did jump first and I was surprised myself how I kept up. Whats your cousin's name by the way? I've seen him a couple of times at the meets but I have never really introduced myself to him. Thanks again for the comments.

BTW, my engine mods are:
AA Euro HFM kit
AA CAI
ES Tuning exhaust
URI UDPs

[LY95]

Like I said, cams and track pipe and you're the leader

[GotBHP?]

Does anyone know how an obd2 m3 with the JC cam kit would do against a e46 m3? I dont really think my car with cams and udp's would beat an e46, but its definetly closer. Im just asking if any of the guys with cams in their e36 have gone up against an e46 m3? Thanks

[injunfeller]

Originally posted by Quest330is
injunfeller, somehow I knew that was cousin, I dont know how I guess because he said he knew I had the M3 motor. Anyway, tell him I said thanks for the WOT comment. I have an ES Tuning exhaust. He's right, one of the races I did jump first and I was surprised myself how I kept up. Whats your cousin's name by the way? I've seen him a couple of times at the meets but I have never really introduced myself to him. Thanks again for the comments.

injuns driving m3's are dime a dozen but we're probably the only 2 that actually drive it the way the engineers meant. So it's either going to be him or myself if you run one of us on the street

He also mentioned that he has seen you at the meets. He was gonna say hi last time but he got there late and you left soon after he arrived.

I dont want to post his name publicly but ill PM his email to you. Hopefully on the next shindig yall can drop me an invite

Let him know when you get that baby even faster. I'm sure he'd be just as eager to see you're tail lights. Comradery among the wolf pack

[///Milk]

Originally posted by nmadd
Good story. I'll keep an eye open for the "I killed an e46 M3" thread when you get more power.

[QuestMCoupe]

Thanks injunfeller, I'll be sure to let you know when I get some more power.

GotBHP, I think you'd get close if not beat an e46 M3...you may need to go OBDI and then get the cam kit, but I'm not sure.

Originally posted by nmadd
Good story. I'll keep an eye open for the "I killed an e46 M3" thread when you get more power.

Ah yes, this will come soon.

[Yackedy Sacks]

So basically you guys think an E36 M3 with HFM, exhaust, UDP, and cams can beat an E46 M3? Can anyone with these mods testify for or against?

I have read stories where a supercharged E36 M3 still loses (but barely) to an E46 M3... this would imply that a cammed M3 is as fast or faster than a blown one?

[LY95]

Jerry,

An OBDI M3, with intake, HFM, chip, UDPs, cams, track pipe, exhaust can beat an E46 M3....nothing more, nothing less.

[LY95]

I've witnessed two E36s with this setup pull about a 1/2 car on an E46 M3. All three drivers were equally skilled...

[GotBHP?]

Id love to run against an e46 m3 sometime in my car, but ive actually never encountered a driver who was willing to race a lil bit. Perhaps for the drivers school im going to at sears point im going to in a few weeks ill get a chance, but on the track, of course, its way different than 1/4 stuff so i dont know....Hell, maybe on the way home or somthing....:

[QuestMCoupe]

Yackedy Sacks, I've never heard an S/C M3 lose to an e46 M3. If they did then their car either not tuned correctly or they could not drive. Theres no way that with an S/C kit on my car I would not be able to close the 3 car length gap between me and the e46 M3.


GotBHP, what are your mods? It's hard to find an e46 M3 owner who wants to run.

[GotBHP?]

In terms of engine mods, i am currently running the JC obd2 cam kit on my car, along with evosport pullies and dinan exhaust. I dont have any dynos to prove anything cuz im too lazy, but id guess that i most likely have around 250 hp to the wheels + or - a few hp. I do have some heavy stereo stuff in the trunk (wich i take out when i feel serious about driving), and powered vader seats, so i am probably pretty heavy compared to some other cars.

The other night i had the chance to race a white e36 m3. He had this huge tin can ricer muffler hehe, it looked pretty bad. Anyways i didnt even know he was trying i pulled so hard on him. There was also another car racing the 2 of us, and apparently (i didnt get a chance to see any of this) the other car made the white e36 spin out and hit a curb on the left side of the road (this was all on a curve). I feel pretty bad about this happeneing, but no one got hurt, so at least that is a little better. I took the turn way faster than either of the 2 cars just fine, my bet is that the driver of the m3 let off the throttle a bit and induced some oversteer by accident.

[jagsm3]

I finally got my chance to race a new m3. I just got onto a very slow and busy freeway and found myself next to a new m3. He had 1 passanger and so did I. He rolled down his window and asked me if I wanted to go. I said I would love to but the traffic was so bad. So he told me to slow down to 10mph and we waited till we had around a 1/4 mile. He signaled to go on 3. We both punched it hard and my back end was spinning but I had i/2 a car on him at the end of 1st and then came 2nd gear and the wheels spun again and at the end of 2nd I had a whole car on him. I shut it down and he asked me what I had in my 99M3. I told him a sc at 13psi. Hw gave me the thumbs up.

[injunfeller]

Originally posted by Yackedy Sacks
So basically you guys think an E36 M3 with HFM, exhaust, UDP, and cams can beat an E46 M3? Can anyone with these mods testify for or against?

I have read stories where a supercharged E36 M3 still loses (but barely) to an E46 M3... this would imply that a cammed M3 is as fast or faster than a blown one?

I have to agree with this. At this risk of sounding biased the E46 M3 is ALL top end. I know it does ok in the 1/4 but still. The car pulls very respectably even past 100mph, let alone the lower end of that. An E36 M3 has to be packing around 290-300whp to beat one at the least. The weight is the biggest problem for the E46 M3. Regardless, i have seen heavily modded M3's with the mods listed above get edged out by M3's. I've also heard of S/C E36's fall victim as well. The delivery of hp, powerband, gearing, and many other factors really help the E46 M3 out in environments where you'd think it would get out gunned.

Nevertheless, i wish i had some spare change laying around so i could buy a '95 M3 and turbo it. Its sad to say but the E36 has a hell of a lot more power potential than my ride.

Either way, i love them both

[Def]

Originally posted by injunfeller
I have to agree with this. At this risk of sounding biased the E46 M3 is ALL top end. I know it does ok in the 1/4 but still. The car pulls very respectably even past 100mph, let alone the lower end of that. An E36 M3 has to be packing around 290-300whp to beat one at the least. The weight is the biggest problem for the E46 M3. Regardless, i have seen heavily modded M3's with the mods listed above get edged out by M3's. I've also heard of S/C E36's fall victim as well. The delivery of hp, powerband, gearing, and many other factors really help the E46 M3 out in environments where you'd think it would get out gunned.

Nevertheless, i wish i had some spare change laying around so i could buy a '95 M3 and turbo it. Its sad to say but the E36 has a hell of a lot more power potential than my ride.

Either way, i love them both

Wait... don't E46 M3's only put out ~265-275rwhp? Why would an E36 which is a few hundred lbs lighter need significantly more power to pull on one?

I think 250rwhp in an E36 would be enough keep up with an E46, and potentially pull on one depending on driver skill.

[QuestMCoupe]

Nice run jags.

I see your point injunfeller, but I also agree with Def. The e36 is lighter and shouldnt need that much HP to hang or pull on an e46 M3. There may have been cases where an S/C'ed M3 has lost but they may have had heat soak or the e46 driver was really good. It's hard to say either way though because every driver and car responds differently to mods.

[GotBHP?]

Originally posted by Def
Wait... don't E46 M3's only put out ~265-275rwhp? Why would an E36 which is a few hundred lbs lighter need significantly more power to pull on one?

I think 250rwhp in an E36 would be enough keep up with an E46, and potentially pull on one depending on driver skill.

Its also the e46's gearing/rear end that comes into play. If an e36 with 250 rwhp had a 3.64 lsd, then it might, at the risk of sounding stupid here, be less of a contest in the e36's favor.

[Def]

Originally posted by GotBHP?
Its also the e46's gearing/rear end that comes into play. If an e36 with 250 rwhp had a 3.64 lsd, then it might, at the risk of sounding stupid here, be less of a contest in the e36's favor.

You are oversimplifying the 'gearing' equation. Yes, the E46 M3 has a higher(numerically) rear end, but it also stock has larger tires. Thus negating much of the benefits of the seemingly 'shorter' gears.

The E46 has ~9.5% shorter gears at the driveshaft, but factor in the much larger wheel/tire combo and you've got only a few percentage points change. Not that big of a difference when you get down to it.


The S54 engine has a really smooth powerband, and E46 M3's are definitely fast, but I think you guys are letting image get in the way of cold hard facts. Power to weight ratio of an E36 with 250rwhp would be very close to that of a stockish E46 M3, and the gearing is close enough to where it'd be a driver's race. This is not saying an E46 M3 is slow, but rather an E36 M3 with 250rwhp might be faster than you think.