Brake Pad Upgrade - 7th HPDE

[M3Alpine99]

So I have done the auto-x thing and "graduated" to track days. This July will be my 7th HPDE in the M3. I have always ran Euro Floating Rotors and blanks with OEM pads(which I actually really like and have YET to let me down). I am pretty quick around the track and definitely use a whole set of brakes at the event.

What is the next step up? I tried one time EBC RedStuff and they were horrible. Worse than the OEM pads. I want to be able to just get a bit more bite coming into 10a at Road Atlanta

Axxiss Ultimate? Run OEM again till I can splurge for a really extreme pad? I don't want to spend 250-300 dollars on pads. Ultimates "seem" to be better than stock.

My driving style is "point and shoot" which I know is not the best and I attempt to brake as late as I feel is safe. OEMs have been great so far. Just looking for the next step for a bit more bite

[ChosenGSR]

I'm surprised you lasted that long on OEM pads without any overheating. I guess it depends on the tracks that you run, I managed to obliterate my rotors with OEM pads at VIR during my 2nd HPDE. I've since used Turner Cool Willies with good results. They are excellent on the track as well as safe on the street to get you to/from the event.

[JClark]

Hawk HP+ are easy to find and relatively cheap, and can get you to the track and home again without swapping pads in the paddock. I use them when I dont have a trailer ride and they work great.

[nick325xit 5spd]

OEM pads are the best normal pad for track use. Axxis Ultimates, for example, like to disintegrate. Get a real track pad or stay OEM. And really, just get a real track pad like the PFC97 (PFC01 for R-tires). After you collect your eyeballs off the windshield, you'll be asking yourself "why the hell didn't I do buy these the first time around?"

[nick325xit 5spd]

Hawk HP+ are easy to find and relatively cheap, and can get you to the track and home again without swapping pads in the paddock. I use them when I dont have a trailer ride and they work great.

The HP+ has amazing bite, but poor heat tolerance. I have never yet tried a pad that can't be used in a BMW on the street.

[M3Alpine99]

So then No on the Ultimates?


OEM pads have been great so far. I killed a set at Road Atlanta last year but they never faded or had any issues.

HP+ then seems to be good?
What is this PFC97? Where do I get it? Price Range?

[Andy]

I had a great experience with Axxis Ultimates. My experience is with them on a 92 Prelude with NSX calipers though.

I had them for 4 years, 10+ track days, some autoX, and daily driving. Lasted me about 35K miles too!! Only had brake fade once.

I am not that fast on the track, nor am I that slow. I definitely wouldn't consider myself hard on the brakes at DEs. I did push them a few times and didn't have any problems.

I was very happy with them for a dual purpose pad.

Last year I switched to Hawk HP+s because I couldn't get Ultimates in time for an upcoming track event. They felt very similar to my Ultimates but the brake dust was very bad. It stained my wheels after 1 DE weekend.

I am looking again for Ultimates for another car I have. That's how much I liked them for a daily driver/ occasional track car.

[nick325xit 5spd]

So then No on the Ultimates?


OEM pads have been great so far. I killed a set at Road Atlanta last year but they never faded or had any issues.

HP+ then seems to be good?
What is this PFC97? Where do I get it? Price Range?

I have been strongly advised NOT to use the HP+ on track. It's better than stock, but does NOT deal with overheating well. Worse yet, they transition from strong braking to nearly no braking with nearly no warning.

It's also the noisiest pad in existence. (I used them on my street/autox car for a while - best cold bite of ANY pad out there.) These things will SHRIEK every time you apply the brakes gently, and anti-squeal goop only gets them from deafening to uncomfortably loud.

[M3Alpine99]

I have been strongly advised NOT to use the HP+ on track. It's better than stock, but does NOT deal with overheating well. Worse yet, they transition from strong braking to nearly no braking with nearly no warning.

It's also the noisiest pad in existence. (I used them on my street/autox car for a while - best cold bite of ANY pad out there.) These things will SHRIEK every time you apply the brakes gently, and anti-squeal goop only gets them from deafening to uncomfortably loud.

Interesting. I am running Road Atlanta. I don't see how this could be possible. I had no fade on my stock pads at all the HP+ will be worse? I am not one to overheat brakes and the track setup at Road Atlanta allows for substantial cool down time. Think I will have different results?

These will be track only. I have OEM pads with Euro Rotors and blanks for the street.

I had a great experience with Axxis Ultimates. My experience is with them on a 92 Prelude with NSX calipers though.

I had them for 4 years, 10+ track days, some autoX, and daily driving. Lasted me about 35K miles too!! Only had brake fade once.

I am not that fast on the track, nor am I that slow. I definitely wouldn't consider myself hard on the brakes at DEs. I did push them a few times and didn't have any problems.

I was very happy with them for a dual purpose pad.

Last year I switched to Hawk HP+s because I couldn't get Ultimates in time for an upcoming track event. They felt very similar to my Ultimates but the brake dust was very bad. It stained my wheels after 1 DE weekend.

I am looking again for Ultimates for another car I have. That's how much I liked them for a daily driver/ occasional track car.

Very Interesting... Totally different from the former review.


Anyone run HP+ on e36 M3 at a drivers school?

[nick325xit 5spd]

Interesting. I am running Road Atlanta. I don't see how this could be possible. I had no fade on my stock pads at all the HP+ will be worse? I am not one to overheat brakes and the track setup at Road Atlanta allows for substantial cool down time. Think I will have different results?

These will be track only. I have OEM pads with Euro Rotors and blanks for the street.



Very Interesting... Totally different from the former review.


Anyone run HP+ on e36 M3 at a drivers school?

HP+ pads are nearly as expensive as track pads. If they're track only, you'd be out of your mind using them.

And yes, I do think you'd have problems with them - when you can brake a lot harder, you will brake a lot harder.

[krisko]

Sounds like it's time to upgrade to Hawk HT14 fronts and HT10 rears. This would be a track only setup...you wouldn't want these pads on the street.

If you're eating up a set over a weekend you should consider cooling ducts too. Road Atlanta really isn't tough on brakes but you might expands your horizons to Barber or Roebling Road.

[m4f1a]

time to buy race pads... PF01, HT10 or 14, DTC70 or 60, Cobalt XR2 all are good just pick whatever floats your boat. i put ht10's all around on a stock car because they were cheapest "good" pad

[VahramHS]

Sounds like it's time to upgrade to Hawk HT14 fronts and HT10 rears. This would be a track only setup...you wouldn't want these pads on the street.

If you're eating up a set over a weekend you should consider cooling ducts too. Road Atlanta really isn't tough on brakes but you might expands your horizons to Barber or Roebling Road.

We are running specials on Hawk pads for bimmerforums members, 15% off of list price and free shipping. Let me know if we can help you out. We have the HT14 and HT10 combo in stock.

[Phat Ham]

I had Ultimates on my 540 and the first time I had them out on the track they glazed over. They were also noisy on the street. Others have had success with them, but I'm not a fan.

I put a set of Carbotech XP10 pads on the front of my M3 and was very happy with them at the track, though I can't say if they were better or worse than any of the other racing pads out there since these are the only race pads I've used. I did drive to and from the track with them and they were fine on the street. Very noisy but no problem with lack of bite, even when cold.

[M3Alpine99]

HP+ pads are nearly as expensive as track pads. If they're track only, you'd be out of your mind using them.

And yes, I do think you'd have problems with them - when you can brake a lot harder, you will brake a lot harder.

Interesting. What is the next step up then?

Sounds like it's time to upgrade to Hawk HT14 fronts and HT10 rears. This would be a track only setup...you wouldn't want these pads on the street.

If you're eating up a set over a weekend you should consider cooling ducts too. Road Atlanta really isn't tough on brakes but you might expands your horizons to Barber or Roebling Road.

Why the ht14 and ht10 combo?

Yah I know on the coolling ducts. 2nd Road Atlanta Event. I starting driving in Chicago Road America, Mid Ohio, Buttinwillow

Question. Will I kill a whole set of race pads and my new blanks in 1 event?

[nick325xit 5spd]

Interesting. What is the next step up then?



Why the ht14 and ht10 combo?

Yah I know on the coolling ducts. 2nd Road Atlanta Event. I starting driving in Chicago Road America, Mid Ohio, Buttinwillow

Question. Will I kill a whole set of race pads and my new blanks in 1 event?

If you're not getting fade, they should last longer. PFC97s, in particular, seem to last a LONG time. The HT10s are a cheap intermediate step, though. (And he recommends HT14s in the front because it's often nice to have some front bias added.)

[CT88]

I switched out my OEM for the Ultimates for AutoX. They held up great for 15 hard runs, much better than my old stock ones did.

They did/do squeal when I'm coming to a stop light with light brake pressure, but not all the time, maybe 25% of the time, not sure what triggers it, but after 2 AutoX's they seem to have calmed down a bit more. I like them,

[BlackM3Sedan]

My only complaint with Ultimates on the M3 were pad deposits on the rotor. I didn't have any problems with fade on the track or noise on the street.

I also ran HP+ on the Cobra. They worked OK but tore up the rotors pretty quickly. I never felt very confident in them though. I just switched to Carbotech XP10 and love them.

[M3Alpine99]

My only complaint with Ultimates on the M3 were pad deposits on the rotor. I didn't have any problems with fade on the track or noise on the street.

I also ran HP+ on the Cobra. They worked OK but tore up the rotors pretty quickly. I never felt very confident in them though. I just switched to Carbotech XP10 and love them.

I have heard the deposit thing 3 or 4 times now. Thank you for the review.

Not worried about tearing up the rotor

I switched out my OEM for the Ultimates for AutoX. They held up great for 15 hard runs, much better than my old stock ones did.

They did/do squeal when I'm coming to a stop light with light brake pressure, but not all the time, maybe 25% of the time, not sure what triggers it, but after 2 AutoX's they seem to have calmed down a bit more. I like them,

Noise is no issue I don't run Auto-x anymore. I will get "black flagged" off the start for noise pollution

If you're not getting fade, they should last longer. PFC97s, in particular, seem to last a LONG time. The HT10s are a cheap intermediate step, though. (And he recommends HT14s in the front because it's often nice to have some front bias added.)

Thank you sir. Weighing my options now. Whatever I choose I will come back and offer review

[GotBHP?]

If you are looking for a decent pad you can use for both street and track, try the Carbotech panther+ pads. They might be a little noisy on the street, but they dont fall off dramatically on the track either. Getting one set of pads to do both is hard, I'd personally recommend getting 2 different sets and swapping back and forth if you use the car on the street a lot.

[M3Alpine99]

If you are looking for a decent pad you can use for both street and track, try the Carbotech panther+ pads. They might be a little noisy on the street, but they dont fall off dramatically on the track either. Getting one set of pads to do both is hard, I'd personally recommend getting 2 different sets and swapping back and forth if you use the car on the street a lot.

Well it is no longer driven on the street very often anymore. I want to try a small upgrade first and then next year upgrade to the 2 sets with dedicated wheels/tires etc.

Just this year I got some style 44s with dedicated track tires I am slowly moving up.

Thanks for the help guys.

[jayhudson]

I used Porterfield R4-S pads for a couple of years before moving to a true track pad. They're OK on the track and great on the street and don't have caustic dust. Once I switched to a track pad, I switched between their R4-S pads and R4 pads.

Now I use Hawks.... no street driving.

Jay

[m4f1a]

If you are looking for a decent pad you can use for both street and track, try the Carbotech panther+ pads.

FYI Panther+ leaves some kind of crazy dust that if not immediately cleaned bonds to the wheels and then rusts. Pads themselves are OK not great but not bad either.

[orthm]

Try a set of Pagid Sport compound pads. I've really liked them. They hold up well with 2 drivers (novice and Instructor run groups) at VIR. Don't have to change for street use either.

[GotBHP?]

FYI Panther+ leaves some kind of crazy dust that if not immediately cleaned bonds to the wheels and then rusts. Pads themselves are OK not great but not bad either.

Have you ever had them? They hevent left any kind of stains on 4 different sets of wheels I've used...