Why is there no S54 twin screw?

[ZCP M3]

Just as the title states, why is there no twin-screw charger for the S54? I remember a long time ago ESS was going to come out with a kit and said the S54 LOVED the TS and made serious torque.

Can any of the tuners chime in as to what's holding everyone back?
-Zach

[LuvMy328is]

I know that the S54 runs really high compression and Karl from AA said the DME is a bit trickier to tune.
~Phil

[ZCP M3]

I can't imagine the twin-screw being all that different than the centrifugal ones on the market today. Just need a different tune right? I found a post from ESS saying they were having issues with controlling the throttle bodies on their TS S54.

[IanBMW]

I can't imagine the twin-screw being all that different than the centrifugal ones on the market today. Just need a different tune right? I found a post from ESS saying they were having issues with controlling the throttle bodies on their TS S54.

Trouble controlling the throttle bodies? They need Nick Burns to get on this...


MOVE!

[5mall5nail5]

Yeah ITBs would make the TS design a little more interesting. Other than that there is no reason except R&D $

[///M3///M5]

Why no delete the ITB set-up. I know this would be intensive, but would it be as intensive as making them work?

Probably a stupid question since I am definitly not the first person to think of this, I imagine.

[wushucivic]

Trouble controlling the throttle bodies? They need Nick Burns to get on this...


MOVE!

YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!

[5mall5nail5]

Why no delete the ITB set-up. I know this would be intensive, but would it be as intensive as making them work?

Probably a stupid question since I am definitly not the first person to think of this, I imagine.

The ITB throttle response is what makes the S54 worth it in the first place.

[///M3///M5]

The ITB throttle response is what makes the S54 worth it in the first place.

Meh...

I would rather have 3XX WHP.

[TaZaM3]

Meh...

I would rather have 3XX WHP.

Then why not a centri plus the throttle responce?

[LeMansGT]

Why no delete the ITB set-up. I know this would be intensive, but would it be as intensive as making them work?

Probably a stupid question since I am definitly not the first person to think of this, I imagine.

Or they could put the SC before the throttle bodies. The Whipple GM truck kit is setup that way. Overall a Centrifugal is easier to package for the S54 besides S54s love to rev.

[IanBMW]

If they already have CF S54 kits out than making a TS would be no different as far as tuning. Only thing I can think of is having the boost come in so low in the RPM's may present a problem given the engines already high compression ratio. Maybe I'm totally off though. Or maybe it is the space constraints of the engine bay.

[///M3///M5]

If they already have CF S54 kits out than making a TS would be no different as far as tuning. Only thing I can think of is having the boost come in so low in the RPM's may present a problem given the engines already high compression ratio. Maybe I'm totally off though. Or maybe it is the space constraints of the engine bay.

Tuning would be no where near the same.

[5mall5nail5]

Tuning would be no where near the same.

Actual tune would be different but the process of doing so is the same.

Software isnt the problem - it'd be hardware as the biggest issue.

I think the problem would be fining a blower package efficient at low rpm yet efficient at 8300+ engine rpm.

[DU09]

Actual tune would be different but the process of doing so is the same.

Software isnt the problem - it'd be hardware as the biggest issue.

I think the problem would be fining a blower package efficient at low rpm yet efficient at 8300+ engine rpm.

Sounds like a bingo to me, the s52 and s50 dont rev anywhere near that high, and neither do many other twinscrewed cars that i know of, IE whipple charged v8s kenne bell cobras ect.

[m3j0n]

From wahty i was told, you would have to remove the ITBs for it to work.... which is one of the great features of this motor.

[dennisljacob]

So it's been ten years since this topic was last spoken about. What are the answers today in the twilight of the 2017? Is there an answer? Is there a TS system for the S54 today? Why not? Or where to find more information or systems.

[Randy Forbes]

I had talked at length with Josh McMurray (aka Eurosport) about this, and he wanted to approach it the same way he did the S-52, with a proprietary manifold. At the time__probably September/October 2005__he just needed someone to give them a car to use (he also needed more money coming in, but that wasn't so widely known then).

Having recently installed what was possibly the second twinscrew of his to go onto an M Coupe's engine (the same car I was able to buy in 2014) and for a period of about a year, I'd get fairly frequent calls from him, nearly always 1-1.5 hours in length. Since he'd already done the S-52, a lot of the talk was centered on the S-54; the ITBs were already thrown out, as far as the design goes, but either he didn't divulge, or I don't remember what the rest of the hardware layout was.

The S-54 intake port face is at a different angle than the S-52, so it wasn't as simple as reworking that casting, and IIRC he also wanted to increase the surface area of the Laminova intercooling cores by adding a 4th or increasing their length (?).

With a static compression ratio of 11.5:1, boost would've either been limited, and/or methanol cooled, and would've required some sensitive and fast responding controls.

I don't know what he had in mind for the software, but nearby Jim Conforti was still handling that end for him, so they would've come up with something.

The twinscrew package for the S-52 did prove one (1) thing, and that was if Eurosport was going to survive, they needed to sell more of them and for a lot more money than they did (there were other factors that also contributed to their demise, not least of which was ESS buying Opcon and halting the sale of compressors to both ES & AA...).

It has been a while; I can't recall the last time S-54 and twinscrew was used in the same sentence

For posterity's sake, behold the Eurosport Twinscrew manifold! This particular example has been stripped of its tenacious original powder coating, and then treated to a thermal barrier and thermal dispersant polymer coating; isn't it gorgeous?!?!

[pbonsalb]

The V8 may allow better packaging of a twinscrew, but ITBs and positive displacement are possible -- Harrop is doing it with the S65. Development costs may be the issue. I think AA stopped selling its S52 kit because costs were high and they weren't selling well. If you spend $100k on development and production and make $2k per kit you have to sell 50 kits to break even and that gives nothing for your time or risk.