The E28 Buyer's guide FAQ

[Wiseguy ON]

We need one of these on here.

Basically, E28s are one of the strongest cars ever made by BMW. They are, from my standpoint as the owner of an Indy BMW shop, better built by a long shot than the newer cars. However it's important to remember that E28 production ended close to 20 year ago and as such, these cars are now getting old. The biggest problem that a potential buyer will face are rust and neglect as many E28s can be purchased for less than $1,000, the previous owner may have deferred a lot of maintinence.

The following apply to ALL E28s, model-specifics will follow. This is more of a "what to look for" thread and less of a "how to mod your car" thread.

Interior:

Dashboards crack. I have yet to see one be successfully repaired for less than $1,300 or so. Also, a new OEM one from BMW is at least $1,000 or so now as the MSRP of the part recently skyrocketed. The $79 dash caps look OK, but hot weather warps them very easily.

Leather seats wear, this is normal as these cars are old.

Headrest failures on power seats are a quick and easy fix.

Gauge clusters can fail, this is often cause by failure of the Ni-Cad batteries on the service board. Don't let this go for too long as the batteries can leak and wreck the cluster.

Odometergears.com sells replacement odometer gears, that's why the odometers often fail, especially in warm climate cars.

Most trim is still available from the dealer, but is pricey.

Headliners are a real swine to change, a torn one isn't a cheap or easy fix.

Wind noise is usually cause by bad front (or sometimes rear) window channels.

Stereos use common-ground speaker wiring and the circuit that the original power lines are on isn't really adequate for a modern system. The best way to wire a stereo is to rewire the speakers and tap the switched and constant power leads from the igntion switch.

Bodywork:

Rust is a problem on northern cars. Watch for sunroof panel rust (Caused usually by clogged drain tubes), rear valances, especially in the area where the rear bumper shocks mount to the body. Also check the jacking points carefully as these often go first. Doors and the bottoms of the front fenders are other trouble spots. A failed trunk seal or taillamp seals (common) can cause the spare tire well to rot out. Very rusty cars should be avoided as you can spend a fortune fixing them.

Shadowline trim is largely NLA and pricey when you can find it.

Watch for cracked bumpers.

The plastic chrome trim around the windshield and rear window yellows, this is VERY common and cheap and reasonably easy to replace.

As I mentioned above, watch for water leaks in the trunk, usually caused by bad taillight or trunk gaskets. These are available new from BMW.

Watch for shrunken windsheild and rear window gaskets that can cause water leaks.

Structural failures are virtually unheard of, unlike some later cars although you will sometimes see cracks in the B-Pillars.

Suspension and Steering:

The E28's suspension design is simple and very effective but prone to front rubber bushing wear. Rear subframe mounts are also going to need changing by now, this is common and can be a PITA to do without a lift. Shimmies and shakes are common faults, usually caused by thrust arm or lower control arm play. Tie rods are a bit more robust than on, say, E36s or E34s from my experience but VERY few E28s exist with under 100k and few with under 150k on them, be aware that the car you're looking at may well need them.

Steering boxes can leak, but it's usually an issue with the hoses failing.

Drivetrain:

The transmissions in these cars are generally durable and reliable, the early cars used the ZF 3HP22 Automatic which is a VERY durable transmission but parts are becoming tricky to get for it. 85+ cars used the ZF 4HP22 transmission and later on the electronically controlled ZF 4HP22EH. DO NOT EVER rev these cars in Neutral, transmission failure can occur.

Manual Tranmissions are hit or miss, most are capable of huge mileage but the Getrag 265 (Depends on the year) is more robust. It's not exactly interchangeable (driveshaft differences) with the more common 260.

Driveshafts can lose their U-Joints, go under the car and check it for free play, a remanufactured driveshaft is usually your only real option and costs $300ish plus core.

The center bearings and Guibos can fail, watch for slop in the drveshaft (Move it up/down and side/side while under the car) and watch for cracks in the rubber guibo/flex disc where the driveshaft and the trans meet.

Also be careful of a cracked pedal box, these can be rewelded.

Clutch master cylinders rarely fail, but slave cyls can go bad. These are cheap and relatively easy to swap out.

Rear differential mounts can fail, fix this before you cause body damage.

rear axle shafts routinely sail past 300k miles without needing servicing.

Watch for damaged steering box mounts.

Electrical System:

The electricals onan E28 are far simpler than on the newer cars, but again, they are aging. A bad main or fuel pump relay will stop an E28 in its' tracks, carrying spares isn't a bad idea.

Window regulators and motors are very reliable as a rule if kept lubricated, switches are a problem. Instrument cluster issues were mentioned earlier.

The ETMs for these cars are available for download from www.bmwplanet.com for free. Most electrical issues are cause by loose/dirty/corroded connections and grounds.

ECUs can and do fail because of internally broken solder joints, these are fixable if you're good at soldering.

Alternators and starters are generally also quite robust, the brushes and regulator packs in the alternators can wear out and can be replaced separately.

Make sure EVERYTHING works.

Dead trip computers (OBC) on 82-84 cars are often caused by the fuse on the OBC module's circuit board being blown, replace with an SFE4 fuse from Radio Shack.

Dim OBC displays on 85-88 cars are generally cause by a bad light bar, $30 or so for a replacement or some people solder new bulbs in.

A burned out alternator idiot light will kill the charging circuit on early cars!

ABS Failures are usually bad or dirty wheel speed sensors and not common.

Power antennas can be a pain.

Brakes

M30-Based cars (533, 535, M5) use a Hydraulic brake boost system. The booster is VERY expensive (Black unit near firewall with lines coming out of it) so be mindful of this when looking at the car. Failure of the hydraulic accumulator or "brake bomb" is reasonably common and a reasonably cheap and easy fix. At idle, you should be able to pump the brakes hard at LEAST 10 times before the "BRAKE" and "ABS" lights come on.

Hydraulics are otherwise quite reliable but calipers and whatnot will often need rebuilding after 20-25 years.

These cars can be hard on front rotors.

Which Pads? Rotors? Well that's subjective.

Wheels and Tires

The 528e and 524td came with 14" wheels and 195/70HR14 tires (originally either Pirelli P5s or Michelin XASs, both way way way out of production, thankfully). The best bets these days for those wheels are going to be the Dunlop Sport A2 in 195/70HR14.

The 533i, 535i and 535is came with Metric 165x390TR wheels. Currently, only the Michelin TRX fits these wheels, they are available on occasion from elsewhere, but usually Coker Tire is your only source for them. They cost $300+ each. The original size is a 200-60VR390

15" tires WILL NOT FIT TRX RIMS! DO NOT EVEN TRY IT!

These tires are expensive and obsolete, if the car is equipped with TRXs, feel free to use them until they wear out. A nice and inexpensive upgrade would be 15" basketweaves from an E34 and 205/60/15s. 17s are about the limit, 16s and 205-55-16s are the way to go. 225-50-16s usually rub without rolling the rear fenders. M5s had rolled rear fenders from the factory.

The M5 used 16x7 BBS basketweave wheels and 225-50VR16 tires, these are fine to stick with.

The wheels for these cars use a roughly 22mm offset and a 5x120 bolt pattern. E36/E46 wheels will not fit without spacers. E39 wheels require the use of hubcentric rings.


Maintinence and Fluids:

All E28s require valve adjustments. M20s and M30s use an eccentric-based system which is simple and easy to do with a piece of stiff wire, feeler gauges and a 10mm wrench. Valve lash should be checked every 15k miles.

M5 Valve adjustments require the use of shims and special tools. If you aren't very familiar with it, take it to a pro who knows how to service S38s.

Oil for these engines is 20W50, period. If it's freezing out, you can drop down to 10W40 but that's it. DO NOT USE 5W30 or 10W30 UNLESS IT'S AN ALASKAN WINTER!

Otherwise, usual fluids apply, I use RedLine MTL in the manual trannies and RedLine ATF in the automatics. I also use good DOT4 brake fluid and RedLine 75W90 in the diffs.

Coolant? I use BMW Coolant.

M20s need new timing belts every 5 years or 60k per BMW. While you're at it, do a water pump. I STRONGLY suggest that any 528e or 524td that you buy gets a new water pump and timing belt instantly. These are interference engines and a broken belt costs a lot to put right.

Other maintinence is like any other typical BMW.

Engines:

Aside from the above, these engines are generally extremely robust and capable of herculean mileages. Oil pressure lights that take 5 seconds or so to go out on M30s are not a real cause for concern.

Fuel injectors are "clicky" at idle, that's normal.

Watch for loose valvetrain oil sprayer bar bolts on M30s, these can cause valvetrain oil starvation and wreck a cam.

Poorly maintained M30s that are beaten on will break rockers.

535is and M5 specific:

M5s are wonderful cars, and still fast by today's standards. It's CRUCIAL that a pre-purchase inspection on an M5 is done by a shop that's familiar with S38s. Anything specific to an M5 can be hugely expensive if it's broken, know this up front. An engine rebuild on an S38 can cost $10,000, a head job $4,000+. Few machine shops have the experience to properly fix these heads. A poorly maintained M5 can be a terrifyingly expensive car to put right,that being said my M5 has LOTS of track time on it and over 180k under its' belt and runs great.

M5 leather interior pieces are rare and valuable.

M5 shadowline trim is also rare and valuable, front bumpers and shadowline drip rails are NLA.

M5s and 535is models use M-Technic front airdams which are easily damaged and sport seats (No, they are NOT Recaros). These sport seats are prone to frame cracks which mean the outer lower thich supprts will be loose or out of place. This can be expensive to fix.

Front airdams are still available, but not cheap.

Hope this serves as a good start, perhaps can the mods make this a sticky?

Bill

[ohnoes]

Wow, great write-up Bill, thanks a lot!

Couple questions:

1) Do you know in which years the more robust Getrag 265 tranny was used? Would it have been used in 1987 MY cars?

2) The tire and wheel situation is something I had never realized before... What setup would most 535i's have at this point? I mean, would their owners have kept springing for these ridiculously expensive tires, or would they have been changed out for U.S.-spec wheels/tires?

3) What percentage of regular 535i's and 535iS's came with the LSD? I know not every 535iS came with the LSD.

[Wiseguy ON]

Wow, great write-up Bill, thanks a lot!

Couple questions:

1) Do you know in which years the more robust Getrag 265 tranny was used? Would it have been used in 1987 MY cars?

2) The tire and wheel situation is something I had never realized before... What setup would most 535i's have at this point? I mean, would their owners have kept springing for these ridiculously expensive tires, or would they have been changed out for U.S.-spec wheels/tires?

3) What percentage of regular 535i's and 535iS's came with the LSD? I know not every 535iS came with the LSD.

1) I should know this but forget. IIRC it's on the pre 9/85 build cars. So 85 535s and I think most 533s.

2) Few are still on TRXs, but some are still. Until not too long ago TRXs were $150-170ish and up until the mid-90s Avon CR28s were as cheap as $100ish in that size. Avons are LONG out of production.

3) Dunno. Maybe 40% or so of 535s and 70-80% of 535iss.

[ohnoes]

1) I should know this but forget. IIRC it's on the pre 9/85 build cars. So 85 535s and I think most 533s.

2) Few are still on TRXs, but some are still. Until not too long ago TRXs were $150-170ish and up until the mid-90s Avon CR28s were as cheap as $100ish in that size. Avons are LONG out of production.

3) Dunno. Maybe 40% or so of 535s and 70-80% of 535iss.

1) Oh, ok. So it's not on the later-model ones.

Would you say a tranny with 129k miles is likely to be in fine condition?

2) Yeah. I guess I will have to check this car out (when the seller finally adds some contact information to his Craigslist ad ) to see.

3) Ah. Damn. I want the LSD. Are they expensive to buy aftermarket? Which ones will fit?

[theseeker411]

I'd say it'd have a fine trans, but of course I can't say for certain since I can't drive it. I've got 226,000 on my 87, and other than a little countershaft bearing whine, it's fine.

Oh and 18" wheels can fit, but trust me it is a HARSH ride, especially if your car is lowered.

[Cory]

Amazingly perfect timing. Thank you.

[ohnoes]

Amazingly perfect timing. Thank you.

It had to do with me, I thinkz0r.

[Cory]

It had to do with me, I thinkz0r.

Possibly. Did we speak on the phone today?

[ohnoes]

Possibly. Did we speak on the phone today?

Sadly, no.

[Louiseven]

Thanks alot for the write up. Much needed information.

[buckwheat]

IMHO
E28 Specific stuff
Brake bomb failure is usually associated with a delayed braking.
In tank fuel pumps are often a weak point.
Drivetrain as mentioned at 200k
Rear brake light failure is common and fixable.
Really just replace rubber pieces and fluid changes and there is no weak point save the less common steering mount or pedal assembly.
Oil sprayer bar bolts are commonly called banjo bolts.

Awesome write up Bill!!

[BoiWonder]

What a great write up! just searched for this and found it and now I want to BUMP it. I want to change all my fluids, I'm using 20W50 right now. In but afraid in Utah the winter could get bad. should I change to 15W50? or 10W40. as for coolant changed to BMW Coolant.

I want to BUMP this thread for the following questions.
I want to change Transmission fluid I want to here more options than Redline mtl. I thought you can put ATF in it. what's best for winter as well?

How about Differential fluid, and what's a good DOT4 brake fluid.
I also want to change power steering fluid. do they make Dexron II anymore?

[320 bimmer]

Do NOT put ATF in your MANUAL transmission. Redline manual transmission fluid is the best you can buy. Same goes for diff oil, I think it's 75w90 Redline that's recommended for our cars. There's no need to change transmission/diff oil for winter, just make sure (as always) to let the whole car warm up (that means engine, transmission, suspension, diff, and driver) before doing any hard driving or acceleration.

Any dot 4 or better brake fluid is fine, it really doesn't matter, just don't be a cheap bugger, shell out for something more expensive (I used BMW racing brake fluid to great happiness when my 533 was running).

Now depending on the year of your car you either have to use power steering fluid, or ATF, it's also debated whether or not any e28s/e24s should use ATF.

[John in VA]

BoiWonder - read the recommendation for oil weights based on temperatures in your owner's manual.
I've run Dexron ATF in the power steering systems of my '85 & '86 535i's as that was what was originally recommended.

[Lurchie]

16s and 205-55-16s are the way to go. 225-50-16s usually rub without rolling the rear fenders. M5s had rolled rear fenders from the factory.

The M5 used 16x7 BBS basketweave wheels and 225-50VR16 tires, these are fine to stick with.

Would like to add to this. 225/50VR16's on 16x8 ET23 E38 wheels all around on a stock 5 speed 535i with original 25 year old springs, shocks, struts with 350k miles or so on them and no rubbing whatsoever. No spacers or rolled fenders on either end. Can fit 2 fingers between tire and and fender even with quite a bit of junk in the trunk. Even on hard cornering there's no rubbing. Clearance against the front strut is tight but still doesn't rub. Have had 3 different brands of tire up front so far. None rubbed. Have theorized that the fronts could rub the struts during hard hi speed turns as the sidewall deforms but I have no signs on the tires of that happening yet. If lowered, it's obviously going to need fenders rolled but that's a given.

[320 bimmer]

I'll add also that I had 225/50/16 on my BBS RA 16x7/8 et11/22 with no rubbing, and I was running dinan stage 3 springs with billy sports .


I'll also add that this thread is so majorly old, it's ridiculous.

[Dexm]

Great post. I've been driving an E34 535i since almost new, but have always wanted an e28. The E34 shares the m30 engine with the e28 so it shouldn't be too much of a learning curve. Plus brakes and other stuff seem about the same, from what little I've looked. It's on my list of stuff to do eventually -- a nice restore of a e28 535. Can you talk more about the differences in years -- or point me toward a good resource where I can read about these differences.

[320 bimmer]

mye28.com