Watch the build-up of a Vorshlag E36 LS1

[Seans M3]

Time to go get some before you start Bessie cause after making that deadline with 1 min left.....you need it.

[Fair]

Time to go get some before you start Bessie cause after making that deadline with 1 min left.....you need it.

After 45 hours of work over the 3 day weekend to get that car ready for headers, I think we need the more than the

hehe...

[JoeZ]

Great pics Fair :

The brake lines were my least fav part of the swap. I sucked ass using the flare tool, and ended up getting some brake lines from NAPA already flared, just bend and go. Keep up the good work, and keep posting those pics of your progress!

[hancheyb]

Great pics Fair :

The brake lines were my least fav part of the swap. I sucked ass using the flare tool, and ended up getting some brake lines from NAPA already flared, just bend and go. Keep up the good work, and keep posting those pics of your progress!

Flaring is all about the proper tools. We bought Matco professional flaring kits and it was pretty easy. The metric bubble flare is one step with that tool. Chuck it up and crank down on it. Another pointer: don't try to flare SS hard lines. Tool doesn't matter in that case, they are HARD and MEAN.

[Seans M3]

After 45 hours of work over the 3 day weekend to get that car ready for headers, I think we need the more than the

hehe...

Yeah, I could see how you would need that more.

Thanks for all the updates & keep up the great work

[jamesd]

Flaring is all about the proper tools. We bought Matco professional flaring kits and it was pretty easy. The metric bubble flare is one step with that tool. Chuck it up and crank down on it. Another pointer: don't try to flare SS hard lines. Tool doesn't matter in that case, they are HARD and MEAN.

For stainless lines I think you can only do a 37 degree single flare. If you try to do a standard 45 degree double flare it will split.

[JoeZ]

Flaring is all about the proper tools. We bought Matco professional flaring kits and it was pretty easy. The metric bubble flare is one step with that tool. Chuck it up and crank down on it. Another pointer: don't try to flare SS hard lines. Tool doesn't matter in that case, they are HARD and MEAN.

I just bought a $30 tool from Summit and struggled

[Demon Speed]

So, I've been reading and following this thread for a while.

I think I read it somewhere already....The first kits coming out will be for only the 95' year model e36's? If so what's so different between 96'-99' yrs. vs. 95'.

The reason I ask is that I've been scoping out buying an e36 M3 and was just wondering which ones to look at for doing a swap in the near future.

[LexdiamonNYC]

So, I've been reading and following this thread for a while.

I think I read it somewhere already....The first kits coming out will be for only the 95' year model e36's? If so what's so different between 96'-99' yrs. vs. 95'.

The reason I ask is that I've been scoping out buying an e36 M3 and was just wondering which ones to look at for doing a swap in the near future.

it's probably a wiring issue, 95 and below were OBD1, 96-99 were OBD2.....
if you plan on upgrading the suspension and braking, then it's pointless to get an M3.....just buy any clean E36 and start from there, then you can upgrade the suspension to better than M3 performance, M3 brakes can be had for little $$, get an M3 rear subframe & Diff.....and you're on your way......
no sense in paying M3 money when any E36 will do the job....

[hancheyb]

it's probably a wiring issue, 95 and below were OBD1, 96-99 were OBD2.....
if you plan on upgrading the suspension and braking, then it's pointless to get an M3.....just buy any clean E36 and start from there, then you can upgrade the suspension to better than M3 performance, M3 brakes can be had for little $$, get an M3 rear subframe & Diff.....and you're on your way......
no sense in paying M3 money when any E36 will do the job....

Scooter's car is a 318is. It already has an M3 rear subframe and fronts going on soon. So, right, there's not too much reason to buy an M3 for this in our opinion. '96 and up is OBDII, more EWS, more complex plumbing for the ABS. Everything else should be the same or close. Motor mounts, radiator, etc won't matter, but we won't have wiring and brake plumbing till we actually do one.

[Demon Speed]

Hmm, very good points. What about appearance? Weight? I like the look of the M3 and I know it's a better looking car than the standard e36 even though the body is probably the same. This would be a street/track car.

I am sure I could look this up somewhere. Is there a list of differences between the M3 and standard E36? If you are selling the M3 engine/trans isn't it more valuable than standard E36?

I'll have to compare the prices of "any" e36 to the price of an M3 and prices of upgrade parts.

[hancheyb]

Side skirts, bumpers, and trim are all pretty easy to come by. Several companies sell it as a package. One thing most people don't realize is that the kidneys and that panel the kidneys sit in are different for M3s. As me how I know. If you know anyone in the paint and body business, they can get this stuff refurbed fairly cheap. We bought an M3 bumper this way and it might turn out less expensive, but we're not buying every nut and bolt since it is not a street car.

[LexdiamonNYC]

Hmm, very good points. What about appearance? Weight? I like the look of the M3 and I know it's a better looking car than the standard e36 even though the body is probably the same. This would be a street/track car.

I am sure I could look this up somewhere. Is there a list of differences between the M3 and standard E36? If you are selling the M3 engine/trans isn't it more valuable than standard E36?

I'll have to compare the prices of "any" e36 to the price of an M3 and prices of upgrade parts.

thats easy.......you can get all the M3 bits and bolt them onto any E36(front bumper, side skirts, rear bumper and side moldings)....that's a reason why some people hated/loved the e36 M3, it was too easy to make a non-M look like an M........ you can probably find alot of info on all the differences by using the search feature here on this forum....

engine and trans.......the M3 drivetrain is pretty cheap these days, if you have a low milage example you can probably get a little more but not much, usually see them go from $2500-6000 depending on milage/condition, etc....

as far as comparing E36 prices.....you can easily find a clean e36 for under $3-4k, not gonna find a clean M3 anywhere near that.......and if you do it will probably need lots of work, which you're probably gonna do to the non-M E36 you just bought for a lot cheaper.........make sense??

[LexdiamonNYC]

lol...beat me to it HancheyB.....

[Demon Speed]

Wow $3-4k, that is cheap. All the clean M's I've seen are anywhere from $10k-18K. I'll do some searching.

I very interested to see some pricing on these kits that are coming out.

[DaveAZ]

I considered starting with a 1992 325IS. I began trying to buy M3 parts. I wanted the entire rear subframe and front suspension including spindles, brakes, better ratio steering rack, etc.. I lost patience when a deal fell through and bought an M3.

With a non-M car you will need to add the M3 rear subframe renforcements that weld onto the unibody above the four points it is bolted to. The half shafts are stronger, their brakes are bigger. The M3 steering racks have a better ratio. Their spindles have better alignment geometry, but you will most likely be getting camber plates any way. Most non-M cars have an open differential (No LSD.)

The M3 interiors are nicer. As mentioned, you get the mirrors, sideskirts, bumpers etc. (Cosmetic crap.)

For the 1995 and earlier Vs. 1996 and later:

Decide if you want your LS1/T56 car to be OBD1 or OBD2 compliant. If your state has strict emissions laws it will be a lot less of a hassle to go OBD1. For OBD1 you only need one O2 sensor instead of four, amongst a long list of engine management stuff.

The 95's have different suspension geometry than the 96-99 models providing negative camber & positive caster, along with a quicker ratio steering rack ratio than the 96-99 models. (A viable replacement is the steering rack from a Z3.)

The 1995 M3 has simple analog A/C controls. 1996 up have electronic A/C controls that are known to be problematic. If you want to keep A/C this may be worth noting. In Arizona this is a concern...

[PrestoMB]

Hey guys. Well this is related and I am just bringing this info to light.

First off does the Cadillac CTS-V come with a T-56 Tranny correct? I thought it does since its a GM product mated to an LS6 motor and has a 6 speed.

Any how UUC Motorworks is and has been known as one of the best Vendors for BMW Products and Especially they're Short Shifter. Well they also have made a Short Shifter for the CTS-V. If you go to the website: www.uucmotorwerks.com you can see under products the shifter. It reduces throw by 30%.

I thought this was awesome information. I have felt there shifter for the E36 M3 and it is amazing. I hope that Rob Levinson could put osmer input here on this topic.

[franka]

Hey guys. Well this is related and I am just bringing this info to light.

First off does the Cadillac CTS-V come with a T-56 Tranny correct? I thought it does since its a GM product mated to an LS6 motor and has a 6 speed.

Any how UUC Motorworks is and has been known as one of the best Vendors for BMW Products and Especially they're Short Shifter. Well they also have made a Short Shifter for the CTS-V. If you go to the website: www.uucmotorwerks.com you can see under products the shifter. It reduces throw by 30%.

I thought this was awesome information. I have felt there shifter for the E36 M3 and it is amazing. I hope that Rob Levinson could put osmer input here on this topic.

I'm curious what your question is. Is it about their SSK for any car or for the caddy or the M3. Or is it about something else? I have their UUC SS KIT on my E39 540 and love it.

I'm interested in the caddy precisely because of the engine and trans and considering trading my Bimmer in for a really hot V8 that takes mods like a kid takes ice cream. Cheap, factory, proven, race parts that work.

[PrestoMB]

Well My question was whether or not the CTS-V has a T56 in it. I found out the answer and it does.

I was just comenting/showing how interesting it is that the the best SSK Maker(IMHO) has a SSK designed for the T-56 Tranny.

Since your putting a LSx/T56 into your BMW might aswell have the best SS possible.

Maybe Vorshlag and UUC can have a deal and have the UUC SSK come w/ Vorsh;ags LS1 kit?

[spitvenom]

Mike's $6500 kit comes complete down to the last zip tie and includes a radiator and intake.

I haven't followed the Vorshlag build up closely, but I am not certain of the differences between their approach and Nash's - there are only so may ways to skin the cat. They now have the motor mount offset which was one of the large criticisms of the Nash kit.

If you guys can do a kit for that price it would be a very good thing.

where can I see or buy this kit?

[Divergent]

Would this kit be feasible with an Automatic E36? I am kinda new to this, but it looks like one of your R&D cars for this project was an Auto to begin with. Is this stuff going to be addressed in the release of a kit?

[erikerikerik]

where can I see or buy this kit?

http://www.nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html

[JoeZ]

http://www.nash8503.com/Conversion_Kits.html

Lets keep this thread on topic (Vorshlag conversion)

[hancheyb]

JoeZ is my hero.

Automatic question: Not supported in the initial kit, but we're willing to entertain the idea if there's a market for it.

Why are we here question: We have a policy of not vendor bashing. So while there are other kits out there, we believe we can offer something unique for LS1 kits (otherwise we wouldn't be trying this). So...stay tuned, as the kit comes together we will outline why we've done what we've done and how it differs from other kits. And btw, "hats off" to the other kits out there for getting it done faster than we can. hehe

[LexdiamonNYC]

JoeZ is my hero.

Automatic question: Not supported in the initial kit, but we're willing to entertain the idea if there's a market for it.

Why are we here question: We have a policy of not vendor bashing. So while there are other kits out there, we believe we can offer something unique for LS1 kits (otherwise we wouldn't be trying this). So...stay tuned, as the kit comes together we will outline why we've done what we've done and how it differs from other kits. And btw, "hats off" to the other kits out there for getting it done faster than we can. hehe

I don't know about anybody else, but having a vendor with an established reputation in a community that i'm a part of, and having that same vendor document most of their R&D and post it for us to critique and ooh & aah at, speak volumes to me.....and will definately make me feel alot more comfortable doing business with them.......!!!