How hard to get a E34 into the 200mph club?

[Uriah]

i don't think wheel spin is much of a factor at bonneville

That's a really big deal. Remember, the cars are running the skinniest tires possible, and they also try not to put anymore downforce on them then needed to stay on the ground. Ever notice most of the cars don't have huge tires or wings?

[gboezio]

This thread is turning me sick, I think of building a monster BMW motor now...

[forsaken]

Im being facetious... but until someone proved to me that it would endure at 1000 hp for SEVERAL continuous multi minute runs (as opposed to a dyno sweep or 1/4 mile only) I wouldn't bet on it being suitable.
You don't need 1000 hp anyway... how ya gonna put it to the ground? Especially when running the narrowest tires possible?

Well, I have seen the 1033hp V.S. Motor M5 run much longer than 2-3 minutes.. they used it on a road course race... do a search on Youtube for V.S. Motor... you can hear and see that 1000hp.

But for arguments sake, while you dont need 1000+ hp, 500 would be more than enough to do the job. The e34 isn't a brick, so the Cd isn't all that bad, even at speed.

[L3000C]

Well, I have seen the 1033hp V.S. Motor M5 run much longer than 2-3 minutes.. they used it on a road course race... do a search on Youtube for V.S. Motor... you can hear and see that 1000hp.

But for arguments sake, while you dont need 1000+ hp, 500 would be more than enough to do the job. The e34 isn't a brick, so the Cd isn't all that bad, even at speed.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=p8gChRI95do

thats 1000hp.....

i dont see y a e34 wouldnt hit 200mph with a taller diff, and 500-600hp.....but thats 600hp at redline, not peak power...

[Whackamac]

my laptop will not fit on my lap after watching that video. Thanks guys.

... at least that confirms I do not need ******...

[fugginfazt]

My 91 M5 stroker see's a speedo indicated 184 which I believe is a corrected 179.
It pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter in 5th. I believe a 6th gear would put this car in the high 180 range or possibly 190
This car only has 440hp.

[2DYE4]

My 91 M5 stroker see's a speedo indicated 184 which I believe is a corrected 179.
It pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter in 5th. I believe a 6th gear would put this car in the high 180 range or possibly 190
This car only has 440hp.

pics

[prash]

My 91 M5 stroker see's a speedo indicated 184 which I believe is a corrected 179.
It pulls hard all the way to the rev limiter in 5th. I believe a 6th gear would put this car in the high 180 range or possibly 190
This car only has 440hp.

Probably a little lower than 179 corrected. Can anyone confirm what the actual Cd is for E34s?

[BleedsBlue]

Unapologetic 10 year bump to the day!?! YASS.

[Blackfrost273]

I like this discussion. Engineering explained just threw out a video about why the 300 mph club is solely for non-production vehicles. He put all the formulae where you need it and did a fantastic job when you think about how much you can use to apply to getting into the 200 mph club. I hope it helps.

[87shark]

why?

[ross1]

Not even if you dropped one from a cliff. Talk about an exercise in futility.

Ninety years ago today, Sir Henry Seagrave broke the 200-mph barrier, using Mystery (also known as 'the Slug'), a 1000 hp Sunbeam, recording a speed of 203.79 miles per hour! Seagrave was an early British pioneer in land speed and water speed records. He set three land and one water record, and was the first person to hold both titles simultaneously and the first person to travel at over 200 miles per hour in a land vehicle. Seagrave (most unfortunately ironically named) died in an accident in 1930 at the age of 33 shortly after setting a new world water speed record on Windermere in the Lake District, England. The Seagrave Trophy was established to commemorate his life.

To put this in perspective, in the United States, the Stutz Blackhawk, which was considered a very fast car at the time, won the AAA Championship, winning every race, and every Stutz entered finished. Also in 1927, a Stutz set a world record for speed, averaging 68 mph for 24 hours. The Stutz Blackhawk is considered by some to be the fastest American production car in 1927; it had a 299 cu. in./110 hp sohc straight eight with twin carbs in a low slung, light weight boattail speedster body.

A typical Model T Ford of the era (then in its last year of production before being replaced by the Model A in '28) would be struggling to hit 45 mph, while a typical '27 Chevy 4-banger (still 2 years away from the introduction in '29 of the familiar "Stovebolt" six) might hit 50.

[JThomp33]

http://petrolicious.com/here-s-a-198...ly-top-200-mph

[Redfive]

According to Alpina's wikipedia page, it's factory top speed was 179. That would put it's final drive around 3.11 with it's g290 gearbox. For it to achieve 200mph in 5th gear, it would need to have a 2.8 final drive. It would have to be special gearing because there's no BMW setup that goes that low from the E32/34. Plus I could only imagine the lag with such tall gearing. Sure you could do over 45 mph in 1st, 80 in 2nd and 115 in 3rd, but the throttle response with that M30 would be so slow off boost. Not the setup I'd want unless I was regularly tackling the autobahn. Plus with that power output, the speedo would climb very slowly.
My setup has a top speed of 162. That 6500rpm in 5th gear with a 3.46 final drive. I've maxed out 4th and shifted into 5th and then got within 10mph of it while on the banking at Daytona*. The car was down on power compared to it's current tune. It probably matched the output of the Alpina at that time, so you're not doing those speeds on any kind of closed course.

*gps verified, not that overly optimistic speedo which had swept past 165 while the car was actually doing 150.

[Layne]

it would need to have a 2.8 final drive. It would have to be special gearing because there's no BMW setup that goes that low from the E32/34.

95 540i/A is 2.81 and 850i/6 is 2.65.

[B10 BITURBO]

The B10 BT is ,, i guess the fastest oem E34 out there,,, on 320km or 200 mph on the speedo its real speed is MAX........ 291-293 GPS speed thats 180 mph MAX on a good day,,,,,,, to do 200 mph i think the 2.93 ratio is needed ((oem 3.15)) and a lot more power,, A LOT MORE

[Layne]

The B10 BT is ,, i guess the fastest oem E34 out there,,, on 320km or 200 mph on the speedo its real speed is MAX........ 291-293 GPS speed thats 180 mph MAX on a good day,,,,,,, to do 200 mph i think the 2.93 ratio is needed ((oem 3.15)) and a lot more power,, A LOT MORE

Exactly. 180mph is NOT "nearly 200" in terms of HP required. We all had a laugh at the petrolicious article title, but I'm sure that wasn't your fault.

Using this calculator I find that it takes about an additional 125hp to go from 180mph to 200. (I guessed the CD at .34 and calculated a frontal area of almost 27 sqft from stock drawings, but of course the car would be lowered. Reducing to 24.5 sqft makes the calculation come in at 353hp at 180mph, accurate for the biturbo. Increasing the target speed to 200mph requires 478.5hp)


http://www.wallaceracing.com/Calcula...or%20Speed.php

[Eero]

E34 M5 3.8 6 speed 7250rpm could go 200mph, just put turbo and enough power.

[ross1]

An interesting car I stumbled on yesterday while at a nearby shop discussing a potential project;
http://drivewithdave.com/the-fastest-alfa/
http://clubs.hemmings.com/texashillc...dates_2002.htm
The second article gives some perspective as to what is needed power and aero to push this TINY* little car past 200 mph
* standing next to it the top of it is about thigh high and the well rounded frontal area is probably half that of an E34.
Any talk of an E34 going 200 MPH would mean staggering amounts of power, not merely hundreds.

[Redfive]

Another reason you'll want way more power than is necessary to achieve such a speed is time. With 575-hp, you may be able to reach 200 if you have 2.81 gears, but it will take a lot of room. Most top speed runs are limited in total distance. You might have a 2-3 mile straight or even one as long as 7-8 miles. But at those speeds you're crossing a mile marker every 10-20 seconds. That doesn't give you much time to slowly wind out the engine. To truly achieve that speed with the type of straightaways that are available to most of us, you need way more power to do it quickly.

[Layne]

Another reason you'll want way more power than is necessary to achieve such a speed is time. With 575-hp, you may be able to reach 200 if you have 2.81 gears, but it will take a lot of room. Most top speed runs are limited in total distance. You might have a 2-3 mile straight or even one as long as 7-8 miles. But at those speeds you're crossing a mile marker every 10-20 seconds. That doesn't give you much time to slowly wind out the engine. To truly achieve that speed with the type of straightaways that are available to most of us, you need way more power to do it quickly.

That's probably a valid consideration. The calculator above is for salt-flat cars (I don't know the average length of a run, but it's loooong), and also points out that it calculates the power to maintain speed, not the power to achieve it in the first place. However, you're still only talking about the 3-digit HP range, which is easily (but expensively) achieved with all E34 engines and most others that would fit.

[E38740iMD]

On

[B10 BITURBO]

But does it really matter,,,, The E34 is a great car,, but is it worth it to break a 200 mph barrier with the cost that is included,,, not IMO their design is actually not the best shape for ultra speed


small OT


If you want to talk about speed ,, thats nothing new,, they did ,,, with stunning results,, ages ago... both in Europe and also in Utah,, my favorite record is Rudolf Caracciola,, the Mercedes driver who did 268 mph on January 28 1938,, on a public highway,,,, Utterly impressive afaik,, the record was broken last year with Bugatti Vitesse i think

these prewar Grand-prix cars could 215 mph in 1937,,,,,,,, totally mindblowing,, and the Mercedes W125 was the most powerful GP car for almost half a century

and the Germans used NOS on their STUKA when climbing ...... 75 years ago,,, there is so little that is new,,,

MOPAR offered 3 cars that could 200 mph in 1970,,,, 47 years ago,,

RUF did 211 mph in a yellow 964 with 469 hp,,,,,,,,,,,, 30 years ago,,,

spirit of Australia ,,, still have the speed record on water,,,, 317+ mph.... set in 1978, almost 40 years ago,,

Burt Munro still have the -1000 cc record on Bonneville.......... 50 years old,,,,,but not over 200mph but still unreal its not broken

and you are trying to make an E34 to go to 200 mph,,,,,,,,,,

well i think i am done for the day

regards

[Hofmeister]

E34 M5 3.8 6 speed 7250rpm could go 200mph, just put turbo and enough power.

plenty of those around your area. over here m50 turbo, e46 m3 6spd and 2.93 rear.

[moroza]

Aero is key.

Random data points: Mercedes C111, in one version with a special bodykit (Cd about .19 and a small but realistic frontal area), did 253mph with about 300hp. Track rats with 300hp Datsun 240Z (comparable frontal area and weight, Cd about .47) have trouble doing 150.

No hard numbers, and I was able to do it only a handful of times, but my 535i (180ish whp) felt comparably fast above 120 as my 544iT (264whp). Clutch in on the latter above 100 and it feels like I'm on the brakes.

there's no BMW setup that goes that low from the E32/34

I have a 2.65 in mine, out of an 850iM, along with an M62. 2.65 also came in 525tds. With a redline at a conservative 6000 (peak power on mine is at 5700 with stock B30 exhaust), it would comfortably do 200mph with a different air distribution - a lot more of it going into the engine, and/or the body moving through a lot less of it.