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Thread: Official M50 Manifold Swap Thread

  1. #1126
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    Mar 2007
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    428
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    1997 BMW //M3
    My install used Eric's extender tabs, and had no clearance problems.
    Btw, your upper strut mount looks sagged up, might consider replacing them.
    With stock MAF and injectors, you will run on the very lean side at higher revs. Keep a watch on what the spark plugs look like.
    "And you may ask yourself, where is that large automobile?"

  2. #1127
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    So~Cal
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    2003 E46 M3 / E30 Vert
    Quote Originally Posted by mpathic View Post
    My install used Eric's extender tabs, and had no clearance problems.
    Btw, your upper strut mount looks sagged up, might consider replacing them.
    With stock MAF and injectors, you will run on the very lean side at higher revs. Keep a watch on what the spark plugs look like.
    Hmmm ill have to look into that, thanks! Full suspension/bushing rebuild coming soon so ill have to add it to the list! Ugh..

    Anyways, still working around fuel rail fitment. Started buttoning up things under the manifold, ran into problems fitting the support bracket for the ICV/ oil separator/ dipstick now because the whole ensamble sits about an inch lower due to the eurosport adapter.

    Also, can anyone confirm what this sensor is? Is it the one that goes into the plug on the top of the fuel rail? That's the only one i didnt mark (or at least i think). Not sure how to connect the two though as i dont see anywhere through the manifold where they can plug into each other.


  3. #1128
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Bellevue wa
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    1998 bmw m3 sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Thrifty S50 View Post

    Also, can anyone confirm what this sensor is? Is it the one that goes into the plug on the top of the fuel rail? That's the only one i didnt mark (or at least i think). Not sure how to connect the two though as i dont see anywhere through the manifold where they can plug into each other.

    Electric air valve I think?

    You can see in my first pic that I drilled between runners 1 and 2 so I could make it reach.
    98 M3 sedan

  4. #1129
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    So~Cal
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    2003 E46 M3 / E30 Vert
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJordanWhitte View Post
    Electric air valve I think?

    You can see in my first pic that I drilled between runners 1 and 2 so I could make it reach.
    Ahhh yeah that's the one! Didnt catch that the first time i saw your pics. Guess ill have to do a bit more modifying lol this is taking much longer than i initially anticipated

  5. #1130
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    2003 E46 M3 / E30 Vert
    Finally finished



    You can see how much i had to cut between the 1st / 2nd runner to get that sensor to reach.

    Also had to cut quite a bit off of each fuel rail mounting tabs for it to clear and allow the fuel injectors to seat all the way.





    Also had to completely cut off the rear 02 sensor bracket.

    Few hoses were completely dry rotted, just ran to autozone and replaced with new lines, but that held things up a day. I would just have new lines ready to go had i knew how bad they were. Here's how they all pretty much looked



    I ended up having to also cut up the icv, oil seperator support bracket, and bend the hard coolant line that goes to the throttle body just to get enough clearance to mount everything under the manifold. Still isnt 100% where id like it but i was able to get the oil separator and icv bolted in so they dont pop out. Luckily i had two of those support brackets because i actually completely cut/broke one into 2 peices just tryingto get it ro work. The eurosport manifold adapter placed everything about an inch lower and further in towards the engine block so the already cramped area of work became that much more of a "pita".



    I have a few extra screws that i believe were from that support bracket as everything else was bolted up correctly, but i also wanted to note that the m50 manifold does not have a support on the underside of it for the fuel lines like the m52 manifold did, and can be seen here



    And down inbetween runner 5/6 here



    Other then that, car started right up. Well actually forgot to hook the ICV to the throttle body, but after doing that it fired up. No CELs, no stutters or leaks.
    Havent taken it out yet, but it revs up and down much quicker!
    Last edited by Thrifty S50; 06-02-2017 at 02:27 AM.

  6. #1131
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Arizona
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    3
    My Cars
    1998 BMW 328is
    Hi guys .
    I finished this swap but something vacumme-wise was not connected right .. I'm left with what I believe is the FPR valve hose not connected and I can't find where It would go.
    *1998 328i 5spd
    *Eric's swap kit (m50manifold.com)
    I was hoping some has done the swap with same vehicle and kit that might be able to help me with possibly a diagram?

    Thank you for you time ! - southerngent

  7. #1132
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
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    North East PA
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    2,718
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    1970 2002; 1998 E36
    My phone # is on last page of the instructions. Call me.

    -E

  8. #1133
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    Arizona
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    1998 BMW 328is
    Quote Originally Posted by E36M3E View Post
    My phone # is on last page of the instructions. Call me.

    -E
    Awesome! Il go back and look for the # . I won't have time untill the weekend but il deffenaltly call .Thank you sir ! - SouthernGent

  9. #1134
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
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    428
    My Cars
    1997 BMW //M3
    Another FPR option is to bypass the factory OBDII FPR, and install an adjustable FPR for exact control of the fuel pressure and mixture range for either dyno tuning (expensive) or if you install a wideband O2 sensor that lets you set your mixture range just by changing fuel pressure up or down (I used the Innovate wideband system, with outstanding results that let me pass CA smog as clean as factory stock when the car was new). Adjusting fuel pressure lets you dial in exactly that 12.6 to 13.1:1 sweet range where max HP and Torque will occur. I used the Ireland Engineering adjustable FPR that has a gauge built in. Use fuel line hose to bypass the return side of the factory FPR. Leave the connector from the factory FPR to the wiring harness connected, in order to avoid flipping a fault.
    Way back on this thread, I posted my dyno chart of 251 RWHP, 233 ft/lbs on a '97//M3. Your 2.8 similarly dialed in, and with a larger Bosch MAF, should get you at least 225rwhp. Also go with the West Coast Riots BBTB. You're cheating your car out of possibly the best bang for the buck next to the M50 manifold if you don't put in a BBTB to complement the added flow of the manifold. Also of you haven't yet, the factory //M3 exhaust lasts practically forever, is dirt cheap due to so many take-offs and parts cars around now, and is just right to uncork a 2.8 without being so open that it takes away midrange. Then put a 2.5" x-pipe in the exhaust in place of the resonators and at the location where the puny h-crossover is.
    Have fun and good luck.
    "And you may ask yourself, where is that large automobile?"

  10. #1135
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    NNJ
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    1,994
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    04 330xi, 98 M3/4/5
    Can someone with Eric's kit please post a pic of the front end under the manifold?

    I'm trying to gauge the amount of space between my gauge senders (oil distro block) and where the "looped" part of the silicone tube goes.

    I have also previously bypassed the TB heating and would like to get a bead on where the silicon hose may be in relation to my bypass hose.

    Thanks!
    [2004 330xi/6] Orient/Natural :: 117-142k :: ZSP :: ZPP :: ZCW
    [1998 M3/4/5] Cosmos/Black :: 113-125k :: TCKline D/A (500/600) :: GC Plates :: RD Sways :: GC Rear Arms :: ZHP Rack :: 3.64 Diffsonline :: PF FCAB :: BW RTAB :: AKG Subframe :: TMS Pulleys :: AA & Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: BW lines :: DTC60 :: Safety Equipment

    Past:
    [1995 M3] Avus/Dove :: 141-242k :: S52 OBDI :: M50 manifold :: 3.5 HFM :: Turner Chip :: XBrace :: SS Lines :: Turner RTABS :: Vogtland CS :: Bilstein Sport :: Z3 rack
    [1999 M3] Cosmos/Black :: 65-87k :: TCKline S/A (400/500) :: Turner plates :: UUC Front Sway :: PF RTABs :: AA Intake :: Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: CL RC6E :: Safety Equipment
    [1993 325is] Brilliant/Black :: 135-139k :: Bilstein sports :: Eibach sways and springs :: Dinan camber plates and chip :: Borla :: LSD

    [1983 320i] Safari/Brownish :: 219-242k :: homebrew CAI :: some rust :: multicolor body panels

  11. #1136
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
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    Mountain View, CA
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    428
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    1997 BMW //M3
    Since you mentioned Throttle Body, do definitely get the big bore throttle body from West Coast Riots, and bypass the ASC throttle with a silicon 3.5" intake boot. Best $350 horsepower improvement you can make on top of having the M50 manifold already. Good idea to bypass the coolant lines to the tb, no downside to it and preventing a future leak that's otherwise bound to happen.
    Please measure and post the MAF flow increase, and if you can get to a dyno, the dyno charts before and after all putting on the M50, and then before and after putting on the BBTB.
    "And you may ask yourself, where is that large automobile?"

  12. #1137
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    NNJ
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    1,994
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    04 330xi, 98 M3/4/5
    Finally got around to lazily finishing the M50 install. Some thoughts and data for everyone:

    Preface - car "breathing" config: AFE CAI, ASC Delete, AA Midpipe, Borla catback, Shark Injector, just-rebuilt OE injectors.)

    1. For everyone who says "oh, it's gonna run lean up top"... well no, no it isn't. I have a wideband on my track car and it stays at 12.6-13.1ish all the way to 7000 at WOT. LTFTs are at like 6, but they were always a tad high on this car. Software quirk, weak pump, weak FPR, dunno.

    2. It most certainly has a softer low end. Not sure how people say it doesn't. Under 3500, notably less shove in the seat. Though it does seem to pull as opposed to just make noise over like 5500. So initial takeaway is I wouldn't be happy if this car was a street machine, but will reserve judgement until I see how it does on track in a couple weeks.

    3. Eric's kit had very nice fitment and all parts necessary, as everyone already knows. Instructions are just ok. I write tech manuals for the Navy so I am biased

    4. Smoke test everything after install! I put on a new CCV hose that I had sitting in a box (Uro shit I think) and poured smoke out both ends. Dealer part, good to go.
    [2004 330xi/6] Orient/Natural :: 117-142k :: ZSP :: ZPP :: ZCW
    [1998 M3/4/5] Cosmos/Black :: 113-125k :: TCKline D/A (500/600) :: GC Plates :: RD Sways :: GC Rear Arms :: ZHP Rack :: 3.64 Diffsonline :: PF FCAB :: BW RTAB :: AKG Subframe :: TMS Pulleys :: AA & Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: BW lines :: DTC60 :: Safety Equipment

    Past:
    [1995 M3] Avus/Dove :: 141-242k :: S52 OBDI :: M50 manifold :: 3.5 HFM :: Turner Chip :: XBrace :: SS Lines :: Turner RTABS :: Vogtland CS :: Bilstein Sport :: Z3 rack
    [1999 M3] Cosmos/Black :: 65-87k :: TCKline S/A (400/500) :: Turner plates :: UUC Front Sway :: PF RTABs :: AA Intake :: Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: CL RC6E :: Safety Equipment
    [1993 325is] Brilliant/Black :: 135-139k :: Bilstein sports :: Eibach sways and springs :: Dinan camber plates and chip :: Borla :: LSD

    [1983 320i] Safari/Brownish :: 219-242k :: homebrew CAI :: some rust :: multicolor body panels

  13. #1138
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    230
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    97 BMW M3 Sedan
    are all the M50 manifolds the same? or is there a specific one that is the best from all?
    Current
    -1997 BMW M3 4Door Artic Silver w/ Black Interior Daily

    Past
    -2001 BMW 325i
    -1999 BMW M3 Vert White
    -1981 VW Rabbit Pickup (Caddy) 2.0 ABA

    "I don't care if the door gaps are straight. When the driver steps on the gas, I want him to shit his pants." - Enzo Ferrari

  14. #1139
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    new york
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    e30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukitas View Post
    are all the M50 manifolds the same? or is there a specific one that is the best from all?
    No they’re not all the same. Mine was different from most. I’d research part numbers and get the most commonly used one for ease of install.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  15. #1140
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    230
    My Cars
    97 BMW M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by 968reckless View Post
    No they’re not all the same. Mine was different from most. I’d research part numbers and get the most commonly used one for ease of install.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    thanks for the info. hopefully someone can chime in with the right part number.
    Current
    -1997 BMW M3 4Door Artic Silver w/ Black Interior Daily

    Past
    -2001 BMW 325i
    -1999 BMW M3 Vert White
    -1981 VW Rabbit Pickup (Caddy) 2.0 ABA

    "I don't care if the door gaps are straight. When the driver steps on the gas, I want him to shit his pants." - Enzo Ferrari

  16. #1141
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Bellevue wa
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    1998 bmw m3 sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukitas View Post
    thanks for the info. hopefully someone can chime in with the right part number.
    11-61-1-735-728 was what I used.
    98 M3 sedan

  17. #1142
    Join Date
    Oct 2015
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    230
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    97 BMW M3 Sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by TheJordanWhitte View Post
    11-61-1-735-728 was what I used.
    Thank you, did you like the upgrade?

    Also do you know if the automatic and manuals have the same manifold? or it doesn't matter?
    Current
    -1997 BMW M3 4Door Artic Silver w/ Black Interior Daily

    Past
    -2001 BMW 325i
    -1999 BMW M3 Vert White
    -1981 VW Rabbit Pickup (Caddy) 2.0 ABA

    "I don't care if the door gaps are straight. When the driver steps on the gas, I want him to shit his pants." - Enzo Ferrari

  18. #1143
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    new york
    Posts
    59
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    e30
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukitas View Post
    Thank you, did you like the upgrade?

    Also do you know if the automatic and manuals have the same manifold? or it doesn't matter?
    Check realoem.com


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  19. #1144
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    Bellevue wa
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    1998 bmw m3 sedan
    Quote Originally Posted by Lukitas View Post
    Thank you, did you like the upgrade?

    Also do you know if the automatic and manuals have the same manifold? or it doesn't matter?
    It makes a big difference to induction noise which is probably the best part and if you’re tuned for it you do notice a bit of power.

    I don’t know if there was a difference between manual and automatic:/
    98 M3 sedan

  20. #1145
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Trussville, Alabama
    Posts
    393
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    95 BMW M Techniq SCCA Ep
    A question. I have a M50TU and need to replace the PCV valve. Since it is virtually unreachable at the rear of the intake manifold, how does it release from the manifold. Thanks in advance.

  21. #1146
    Join Date
    Jul 2018
    Location
    Stafford, VA
    Posts
    20
    My Cars
    1998 Z3 2.8
    I picked up a manifold and used a swap kit/tune from Kassel Performance.

    Performing only the manifold swap took about 4 hours, mostly due to poor swap directions, but I can figure most things out without directions.

    Started up first time, no problem, no CEL, no leaks, no running issues what-so-ever. Did not notice a huge power increase/decrease through any RPM range.

    Sent DME out for the generic "post-M50 manifold swap tune" and still don't notice much of a difference. I'd say this mod is an over-rated flop. If I could have my money back and stick to original manifold I would. I haven't DYNO'd my car but I HIGHLY doubt anyone has seen a proven 25hp increase from this.

    Aside from people claiming "blasphemy" for my doubts in the power claims, did anyone else have a problem getting the new big "3-way tube" to fit on the "cyclone" oil catch? I tried for over an hour, stretched, oiled (even though not recommended) and eventually gave up and ran to home depot to get a brass coupler adapter with an ever-so-slightly larger hose. This was, by far, the most frustrating part, mostly because it should have been one of the most simple parts.

  22. #1147
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    NNJ
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    04 330xi, 98 M3/4/5
    Quote Originally Posted by 1998z3 View Post
    Did not notice a huge power increase/decrease through any RPM range.

    Sent DME out for the generic "post-M50 manifold swap tune" and still don't notice much of a difference. I'd say this mod is an over-rated flop. If I could have my money back and stick to original manifold I would. I haven't DYNO'd my car but I HIGHLY doubt anyone has seen a proven 25hp increase from this.
    Honestly I was pretty disappointed in the swap to. My immediate opinion was that there is a sizable loss in power below 4500, and a minimal gain in willingness to pull from 5500-7000.

    Anyone who says they don't feel a loss in power below 4500 needs their ass dyno recalibrated. That was the very first thing I noticed.
    [2004 330xi/6] Orient/Natural :: 117-142k :: ZSP :: ZPP :: ZCW
    [1998 M3/4/5] Cosmos/Black :: 113-125k :: TCKline D/A (500/600) :: GC Plates :: RD Sways :: GC Rear Arms :: ZHP Rack :: 3.64 Diffsonline :: PF FCAB :: BW RTAB :: AKG Subframe :: TMS Pulleys :: AA & Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: BW lines :: DTC60 :: Safety Equipment

    Past:
    [1995 M3] Avus/Dove :: 141-242k :: S52 OBDI :: M50 manifold :: 3.5 HFM :: Turner Chip :: XBrace :: SS Lines :: Turner RTABS :: Vogtland CS :: Bilstein Sport :: Z3 rack
    [1999 M3] Cosmos/Black :: 65-87k :: TCKline S/A (400/500) :: Turner plates :: UUC Front Sway :: PF RTABs :: AA Intake :: Borla :: XBrace :: TRM C2s :: CL RC6E :: Safety Equipment
    [1993 325is] Brilliant/Black :: 135-139k :: Bilstein sports :: Eibach sways and springs :: Dinan camber plates and chip :: Borla :: LSD

    [1983 320i] Safari/Brownish :: 219-242k :: homebrew CAI :: some rust :: multicolor body panels

  23. #1148
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Orlando, FL
    Posts
    8,884
    My Cars
    Turbo 97 E36 M3, 99 M3
    Quote Originally Posted by NotUrAvgM View Post
    Honestly I was pretty disappointed in the swap to. My immediate opinion was that there is a sizable loss in power below 4500, and a minimal gain in willingness to pull from 5500-7000.

    Anyone who says they don't feel a loss in power below 4500 needs their ass dyno recalibrated. That was the very first thing I noticed.
    I figure there had to be a reason the BMW engineers went with the S52 manifold after 95....surely, they asked the question if they should just keep the same manifold they've been using....surely!? Now, for FI folks, I think there is a better reason to make the switch
    1997 Arctic Silver/Black M3
    CES Stage IV (651rwhp/615rwtq @ 24 psi)

    1999 Techno Violet/Dove M3
    Auto/Convertible and staying stock!

  24. #1149
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    Mountain View, CA
    Posts
    428
    My Cars
    1997 BMW //M3
    A well dialed in M50 manifold conversion WILL gain ~15hp, with no loss of torque, and raise the RPM that peak HP and torque occurs at by ~2 -300 RPM.
    The M50 manifold is not a magic pill.
    Did you log MAF flow and fuel correction percentages across the rev range before and after?
    On an otherwise stock engine, you will lose midrange. To dial it in, you need to make other changes that let the engine breathe in and breathe out better to match the manifold's breathing, and drink enough added fuel to match the increase in air.
    Follow my postings through the life of this thread where I describe what and how I achieved 251 RWHP with 234 ft/lbs torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotUrAvgM View Post
    Honestly I was pretty disappointed in the swap to. My immediate opinion was that there is a sizable loss in power below 4500, and a minimal gain in willingness to pull from 5500-7000.

    Anyone who says they don't feel a loss in power below 4500 needs their ass dyno recalibrated. That was the very first thing I noticed.
    - - - Updated - - -

    A well dialed in M50 manifold conversion WILL gain ~15hp, with no loss of torque, and raise the RPM that peak HP and torque occurs at by ~2 -300 RPM.
    The M50 manifold is not a magic pill.
    Did you log MAF flow and fuel correction percentages across the rev range before and after?
    On an otherwise stock engine, you will lose midrange. To dial it in, you need to make other changes that let the engine breathe in and breathe out better to match the manifold's breathing, and drink enough added fuel to match the increase in air.
    Follow my postings through the life of this thread where I describe what and how I achieved 251 RWHP with 234 ft/lbs torque.

    Quote Originally Posted by NotUrAvgM View Post
    Honestly I was pretty disappointed in the swap to. My immediate opinion was that there is a sizable loss in power below 4500, and a minimal gain in willingness to pull from 5500-7000.

    Anyone who says they don't feel a loss in power below 4500 needs their ass dyno recalibrated. That was the very first thing I noticed.
    "And you may ask yourself, where is that large automobile?"

  25. #1150
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bellevue wa
    Posts
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    1998 bmw m3 sedan
    Why do people keep doing just the M50 manifold swap and none of the supporting mods that go with it to make it work?!
    98 M3 sedan

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