M3 Cams in the M50TU?

[abakos]

Was looking around Bimmerworld...I saw a conversion they sell for an E36 325-- Same motor as mine.

For 900 bucks they'll sell me a set of used M3 Cams and a Conforti chip good for a total for 30 more hp.

I can buy the chip for 250 new...and it gives me another 22 peak hp.

So what's the benefit of the cams? I can't see 8 hp being worth $550.

[Dark Helmet]

well, first off, its M52TU, and no, i don't think it will work.

why? becuase the M52TU had double VANOS, where the S50 and S52 did not.

thats my thoughts!

[abakos]

M50TU is VANOS Intake (2.0,2.3, or 2.5)- M52TU is dual VANOS (2.5 and 3.0)

I'm just trying to figure out what it would do to the curves--

[Dark Helmet]

ummm, nope.

M50 is the 1992-1995 2.5L motor (S50 is similar, single vanos)
M52 started in 96 with the 2.8 and then in 98(?) with the "2.3" and in 99 they became M52TU which added double vanos.

the trick is that the S52 never got double vanos IIRC, so

HOWEVER... if you have an M50 or M52 (up to 98 IIRC) you CAN do it. I can't remember what year your car is...

[abakos]

Hrm...I was using the info posted on www.koalamotorsport.com

If you go to the free tips section, in the top left there's a link to a chart of models (IE E28=..., E34=..., etc...) and Motors (M50, M52...)

Perhaps I have been using an incorrect source of info?

[abakos]

I don't think I'm gonna get an answer on this one am I...

[Dark Helmet]

I can't find that info on that site... I've just given you pretty much all of my knowledge on the subject.... so if you can find a confirming source, go for it...

if you do indeed have a single-vanos motor... then HELL YES they will work. I just couldn't remember what year your 5er was (i have sig's turned off... sorry)

[abakos]

Ahh...95' 525I-5spd

Here's a better link.

[JamesM3M5]

The M50 had no VANOS until it became the M50TU in late 1992/1993. "TU" stands for Technical Update, and adding intake VANOS to the M50 made it the M50TU. US E36 M3 cams WILL fit the M50TUB25, the same engine that abakos has.

Don't believe all of the published HP numbers for chips. The M3 cams DO help, as may on the E36 board can attest.

Brett Anderson who owns Koala Motorsport knows his stuff. His website has quite a bit of helpful info.

[JamesM3M5]

Why not find out how much you can sell your 2.5L engine for (popular for SCCA ITS 325i/is racecars)? Then find out how much an E36 M3 engine is. I'm getting an Euro S50GT engine from bimmerworld once his Euro supplier gets on the stick and I'm selling my Evo-2 S14 engine (with tons of spares) to make up most of the cost. Find out how much James will sell a 1995 US E36 M3 engine/brain for. It's literally a plug and play. Swap engine mounts/brackets and oil pan, and you're set!

[abakos]

I've pondered the idea of swapping motors since I read one of your posts last week (in "Convince me to buy an E34?").

I have no idea what my engine is worth. I have about 87,970 miles on it now, I'll put another thousand on this weekend. If I could get an E36 M3 Motor to swap in, for a reasonable cost, I would do it. I had not considered selling my motor.

In 2 weeks I'll be attending a BMWCCA event, Mr. Anderson will be there, so maybe I'll pick his brain for a few minutes.

I was mostly curious about what the M3 cams do to the curves. I haven't been able to find any dyno charts for that swap. Dollar for dollar I think the JimC chip is the easiest and cheapest way to increase power.

Thanks for the input JamesM3M5!

[Dark Helmet]

hmmm, i've never heard of or seen anything that said M50TU... interesting.

[shragon]

my car has an m50tu (tu = technical update) and it's a 1995 525i. i think the basic difference between an m50 and m50tu is the addition of vanos.

this guy in the bay area just installed m3 cams in his 1994 325i with the conforti chip. he says the power is pretty noticeable. the car was dynoed (dyno spot racing, san jose, ca) before and after the install. there is a power gain in both hp and torque. i can't remember the exact numbers, but i would say about 15 hp and torque gain at the wheels.

[abakos]

Was the first dyno already with a Conforti Chip? Obviously you'll need software to swap cams, but I haven't seen anything that tells you the difference between software and software/cams.

I'll keep digging...

[shragon]

i think the first dyno was without the conforti chip. i know he had a dinan chip before the conforti chip, so it might have been dynoed with the dinan chip first. if you have a dtm power account, send a PM to Dinan325ic.

[NickG]

Originally posted by abakos
Was looking around Bimmerworld...I saw a conversion they sell for an E36 325-- Same motor as mine.

For 900 bucks they'll sell me a set of used M3 Cams and a Conforti chip good for a total for 30 more hp.

I can buy the chip for 250 new...and it gives me another 22 peak hp.

So what's the benefit of the cams? I can't see 8 hp being worth $550.

Can you use the cams in your car? YES

Will there be a power gain? YES

How much power gain? Same as the E36 2.5L gains

Is it worth it?

IIRC, technically speaking, the DME software between the E36 and E34 cars isn't identical. The E34 has some code that the E36 does not (voltage vs. idle rpm stuff). So the E36 chip may work in your car, and the engine will run properly, but it won't have all the functions that the original E34 code had. Of course, I could be way off base since I'm not 100% sure on this.

As far as the VANOS, TU, etc. designations, here's another summary:

91-92 2.5L non-vanos = M50
93-95 2.5L vanos = M50TU (also introduced knock sensors on the engine/DME)
94-95 3.0L = M50B30TU (or something like that vanos, knock sensors
'96-'98 2.8L = M52 (single vanos just like M50TU family)
'96-'99 3.2L = M52B32 (single vanos 3.2L M3 engine)
'99+ 2.8L = M52TU (double vanos)

Cams from the M50TU and M52 engines are physically interchangable as both engine families used the same cylinder head casting.

[Dark Helmet]

don't youmean S50B30TU and S52B32

[NickG]

Originally posted by dasMafia
don't youmean S50B30TU and S52B32

yeah, probably........it's been a long day :eyes1

[abakos]

Originally posted by NickG

Cams from the M50TU and M52 engines are physically interchangable as both engine families used the same cylinder head casting.

Thanks--

I don't think it's worth it. I did get a chip that someone had in a 94? 325it. It was tuned for exhaust as well...but I'm not sure if it's an issue with mine. There is a noticable power gain, possibly a fuel economy gain as well. The first tank was higher than it would have been otherwise, but I don't have enough data to form any conclusions.

It's too much work to swap out the cams. I'd still like to see a dyno before and after, if nothing else, just to satisfy my curiousity