H&R sport front and stock rear

[dmw]

Has anyone run H&R sport on the front and stock springs on the rear? I think the H&R rears are too low and want to raise it back to stock height or at least raise it a little. How much would that throw off the handling?

I have Bilstein sport shocks/struts.

[LuxoM3]

i had the same set-up on my 96 m3.... you can run a 5mm or 8mm spring pad. they are prety cheap from the dealer and an easy install in the rear. personally i thought the hr sport probably had the best overall drop... not the best ride
but a good drop

[MCM97]

too much rake inho

[pbonsalb]

There may be a few versions of H&R Sports out there. I have read of red, blue, and black, though I am not sure color determines height. I have black ones and the rear does not sag. As others have explained, you can also buy thicker rear perches or cut out the center of one and sandwich two.

Philip Bradley

[dmw]

I have ordered 10mm spring pads and plan to sandwich them. I may just swap my old rear stock springs if that doesn't raise it enough.

[M13]

Are you using stock rims or 18s? 19s?

[joshe36316i]

i'm using stock springs at the rear stock shocks absorbers (sachs) and i'm using h&r sport springs at front with stock shocks (sachs). i like the ride of my car now and the looks. My friend told me when i was driving my car he thought i'm using lowering springs in my rears. so i guess if you want to have the same height like at the back go for sport in the front. (maybe because i have sound setup in my trunk that's why it's kinda low but it's 2 fingers gap)

[dmw]

Does anyone know the difference in spring rates between the stock and H&R sport rears? I have the black H&R rear springs if it makes a difference.

[kevjoh]

I used the 15mm spacers from turner...my sig was taken before I installed them and you can see how it has a bit of a reverse rake look to it. Now it looks nice and even.

[Blink21Me]

Does anyone know the difference in spring rates between the stock and H&R sport rears? I have the black H&R rear springs if it makes a difference.

I don't think anyone has the right and accurate info on the H&R spring rates when I ordered mine from Pete (TC Kline Racing) he said that H&R doesn't provide spring rates, he suggestted calling H&R themselves and ask them, so I did and guess what, the H&R guy told me there is no way they could have given the info on spring rates on any of their springs and he didn't know where I got it from (I mentioned I heard it's 200F 380R for Sports). He even said none of their employees know them... For some reason they don't let people know the spring rates on their springs, which they should, probably because they don't go by spring rates on judging how the car would handle... But still it doesn't matter...

I do have the H&R Sports and I say the drop in the rear IS kinda LOW that the rear tires are really well tucked in the rear fenders... while the front springs almost DIDN'T drop the front height AT ALL!!! hahah, oh well some say it should take time for them to settle down and the height should decrease eventually...

Anyways, about the 5mm, 8mm, or 10mm spacers, can someone link where to get them from and do they raise the rears by how thick they are? Say, does the 5mm raise the rear height by 5mm? does the 8mm raise the rear height 8mm???

[Blink21Me]

oh BTW, the front H&R Sport springs is less stiff compared to front stockers... I even compared them side by side when they're both off the car, step on them and damn the H&R was way softer... About the handling I'm not sure how it's supposed affect that... I got Koni Yellows set all the way to FIRM. A little bouncy but I prefer it that way...

[dmw]

oh BTW, the front H&R Sport springs is less stiff compared to front stockers... I even compared them side by side when they're both off the car, step on them and damn the H&R was way softer... About the handling I'm not sure how it's supposed affect that... I got Koni Yellows set all the way to FIRM. A little bouncy but I prefer it that way...

Not saying that you're wrong, but that would really surprise me. My guess is the H&R would be more stiff if it was the weight of the car, rather than you on top of it.

[black_box]

I've heard the H&R springs are progressive rate and the OEM springs are linear. H&R's may very well be softer until you compress the coils a bit, and if the springs were off the car they werent compressed at all.

[Blink21Me]

I had the same idea but I still assume they are softer than OEM because I've read somewhere the springs rates of the OEM's are higher than 200 (correct me if I'm wrong) ~ and according to what's posted in this thread;
http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showt...t=spring+rates H&R Sports are 200 in the front...

[SG_M3]

oh BTW, the front H&R Sport springs is less stiff compared to front stockers... I even compared them side by side when they're both off the car, step on them and damn the H&R was way softer... About the handling I'm not sure how it's supposed affect that... I got Koni Yellows set all the way to FIRM. A little bouncy but I prefer it that way...

Thats telling you nothing. Also, running your koni's stiffer than the springs is doing nothing but slowing you down.

[Blink21Me]

kool, good to know

[dmw]

My research shows that H&R sports are about twice as stiff as the stock springs. Interestingly the H&R rears are only about 15% more stiff. I may just put the stock rears back in.

Spring -> Front Rate -> Rear Rate

Stock E36 M3 ->105 ->335

LTW E36 M3 ->138 ->402

Eibach Pro Kit M3 ->148 ->428

Sachs M3 coilovers ->215 ->395

H&R 29910 (Sport) ->200 -> 380

H&R 29910 DTM(Race) -> 345 ->515

H&R Coilover ->340 -> 380

Dinan ->150 ->400

Vogtland 3.2L M3 ClubSpec -> 183 -> 460

[vik]

Has anyone run H&R sport on the front and stock springs on the rear? I think the H&R rears are too low and want to raise it back to stock height or at least raise it a little. How much would that throw off the handling?

Dude, all due respect but this is kinda crazy. BMW engineered their spring rates front and rear, they didn't just pick 'em out of the yellow pages. Replacing stock springs with a matched, engineered (to some extent, at least) set is one thing, but flopping random springs in wherever you want just to get the right "look" is pretty ass-backwards, in my humble opinion.


-vik

[///MikeD]

Dude, all due respect but this is kinda crazy. BMW engineered their spring rates front and rear, they didn't just pick 'em out of the yellow pages. Replacing stock springs with a matched, engineered (to some extent, at least) set is one thing, but flopping random springs in wherever you want just to get the right "look" is pretty ass-backwards, in my humble opinion.


-vik

+1

[dmw]

Dude, all due respect but this is kinda crazy. BMW engineered their spring rates front and rear, they didn't just pick 'em out of the yellow pages. Replacing stock springs with a matched, engineered (to some extent, at least) set is one thing, but flopping random springs in wherever you want just to get the right "look" is pretty ass-backwards, in my humble opinion.

I don't necessarily disagree, hence my question. That being said, under your reasoning one would never modify a BMW. All cars are engineered to meet a lot of different demands and compromises are made. Despite and with due respect to BMW's engineers, I put H&R sports and bilsteins on the car and it handles so much better than stock. BMW's engineers also put staggered rims and tires on the car. Most agree this has a negative effect on handling.

I have researched the spring rates. The difference between stock and H&R sport is a little over 10%. Is that and an extra inch in height going to screw up the handling? Maybe, but you never know until you try and rear springs are a pretty easy swap.

After saying all this, I do appreciate your point of view and, like I said, I don't necessarily disagree.

[pbonsalb]

I would defer to the guys in the track forum on whether certain spring combinations work or not.

On the one hand, it seems to make sense that stiffer springs in front only will have an effect on handling, we don't know that the effect is bad. For example, BMW put 225s in front and 245s in back. Maybe stiffer springs extract more from the 225s in front and might make the car handle comparably to stock springs with 245s in front -- which no one says is wrong (and should not given that such a size is only 10 mm over what BMW once specified for the front).

I am trying to set up my suspension (H&R Sports, Koni SA, poly bushings, bigger swaybars) and will be asking for advice from the track guys. I have already read some comments from them about how certain shock and strut settings best match certain springs.

Philip Bradley

[///MikeD]

I don't necessarily disagree, hence my question. That being said, under your reasoning one would never modify a BMW. All cars are engineered to meet a lot of different demands and compromises are made. Despite and with due respect to BMW's engineers, I put H&R sports and bilsteins on the car and it handles so much better than stock. BMW's engineers also put staggered rims and tires on the car. Most agree this has a negative effect on handling.

I have researched the spring rates. The difference between stock and H&R sport is a little over 10%. Is that and an extra inch in height going to screw up the handling? Maybe, but you never know until you try and rear springs are a pretty easy swap.

After saying all this, I do appreciate your point of view and, like I said, I don't necessarily disagree.

About the H&R and Bilsteins, this handles better for you but not necessarily the lawyers, yuppies, doctors, etc, that were buying this car new back in the day. BMW compromised so that the car would be comfy and sporting. AND with the stock setup it was still C&D's Best handling car at any price. Staggered tire sizes were to make sure the rear stayed in the rear. 225/245 setup does create understeer, but that is safe for everyday consumers and BMW's legal department. The 235/235 setup on 95's may have been too much and cause some amount of instablilty in panic situations, and I believe was changed b/c of the everyday driver/consumer. Also, the caster specs were changed from '95 to the '96+ due to their "odd" low speed feeling that the everyday consumer wasn't comfortable with. WHat i'm saying is that they are looking at the big picture, and if the rear sits too low for you, get some spacers. They are inexpensive and you're keeping the spring rates that Eibach/HR/Dinan/GC/whoever decided were good for the vehicle.