Wolfie

[jbd5015]

Alright. here is what i have ruled out.

1. Ignition System
2. Fuel Pump
3. Main Relay and Fuel Pump Relay

Im thinking that the ECU is the problem. I have the 008, which ive found to be considerably different than the 059. I have both ECU's, and took them both apart. The 008 out of wolfie seems to be in good shape. No black marks anywhere, all the connections in good shape. Unless im totally missing something. Im looking to find someone who has an 008 they'd be willing to send out.

Any thoughts?

-Jeff

P.S. Thanks Dave for all the help earlier!

[dm635]

jeff,this is a long shot.but the 2 green wires going to the "OBC relay box" can be tied together. this is also a no-start problem.there is a relay inside the box you are bypassing that fails. this is also the relay that keeps your car from starting when you set the code function on the OBC.
the relay is above your left knee behind the check panel area.right there where the cruise control box is.like i said,just another long shot.i'm also refering to 85 and above.84 OBC,is it the same?
good luck.

[alpinacsi]

The 84 OBC is different than 85 but I think the principles are the same. I think it is detailed on Rick's page. The 84 has the LEDs verticle on both sides of the OBC.

Just for grins check the elec. connection on the Air Flow Meter. I have left this off before when changing the air filter and it would run rough, stumble and then die. Also make sure the connections are clean.

Be careful that you do not flood it and soak the plug with repeated cranking. The platinum plugs will foul very quickly like this. By the way; don't use the platinum plugs.

[jbd5015]

To no avail, i had ran out of time for this weekend. Im going to get a different ECU and perhaps an OBC between now and the next time i go home to work on wolfie. I got the car towed to home for a reasonable price, especially now its with my dad who can tinker away at it if he feels so enthused. Im going to read up some more on the electrical wiring bypasses and what not to have that knowledge for later. I wasnt comfortable with that kind of work yet. I still need to sell my truck to get some money to put into wolfie. Thanks again guys for helping me out with this issue, wolfie will run again...soon.

-Jeff

Here are some photos of what Wolfie looks like today!

[jbd5015]

YARG!!

Although i am not with the car, my father is and he has given me the word. The ECU came in the mail today from a great guy that hails from the roadfly forum. My dad installed, still no start! So now im thinking its the OBC. Im beginning to lose patience with this as the car was running, even with a shot distributor cap, cracked ignition wires, and old plugs! Now ive got new plugs, better condition cap and rotor, 8mm wires, a definitely functional ECU. We shall see what happens, im thinking of buying some new relays to start isolatin the issue. Once i sell my truck ill have some proper funding and ill get brand new cap and rotor and what not.

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

The relays can be bypassed for testing. Have you also checked the resistance on the reference sensors?

[jbd5015]

I have not checked the resistance on the sensors. Is that something that can change after sitting for a little bit? Ill see what i can find on that on how to check that. Thanks again todd.

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

Squirrels have been known to wreck havoc on sitting vehicles.

You can also make sure the connectors are clean and connected properly. And also check the ends at the flywheel and make sure it is not gummed up on the ends of the sensors.

[jbd5015]

Damned vermin,

that is a possibility, although the area it was at is usually guarded by a fierce lab/springer spaniel mix (just kidding, he looks at squirrels as playmates really). No signs of animal tracks under the car, the floor had a nice layer of sand so i wouldve been able to see, but mice might be harder to find. I put in a line to haygood to get a quote on some parts in the event that the sensors are toast, and im just going to get new relays.

-Jeff

[jbd5015]

Talked with the guy from roadfly that i got the ECU from. He is thinking idle control valve. If i get spark and it fires and runs on starter fluid, then we're thinking the reference sensors are alright, cause it wouldnt fire if they were bad. But if the engine is getting the correct air/fuel mix then it wont fire either.

-Jeff

[e24mpwr]

When my TPS went, the car would start and idle (badly), then die with throttle. Eventually it died completely though (no start).

[jbd5015]

TPS is throttle position sensor?

-Jeff

[CW6er]

ok. So im back for lunch. Car has spark so im thinking its fuel thats the issue. I put a new fuel filter in, and the fuel pump is whining when the car is turning over. Should the pump be clicking or whining in another key position? It wasnt clicking at one point, then i switched the relay and it is. I was checkin to see if the rail was getting fuel and i ran into something that confuses me. I pulled the line off the fuel pressure regulator, had my dad crank the motor and only fuel was coming back out of the regulator, with a good amount of pressure. Nothing was coming out of the line going to the tank. Im guessin that the line must be connected to make the fuel system works, but it was a little confusing. I put a new filter as i said, and some fresh fuel in, does it take a while for the lines to get all the air out? My battery is new, but the car hasnt been run with the new one, so its starting to lose some charge with just cranking. The engine turns over and fires and runs for about 3 seconds with a shot of starter fluid through the intake. Time for a sandwich and then im going back at it with a battery charger.

-Jeff

From the above is seems you've got a few misconceptions about the fuel system :

The fuel from the fuel pump enters the fuel rail at the back of the rail by the firewall where it builds pressure to about 43 psi and then the fuel pressure regulator opens and excess fuel returns to the tank through the line from the regulator.

Also, the fuel pump only runs for a few seconds when the key is first turned on then the ECU shuts it off until the engine starts so that the engine won't flood while cranking. Because of this, the pump relay must be jumped to test the fuel pump.

PS. Do you have the Bentley BMW 5-Series '82-'88 Manual? It has great systems descriptions and some good troubleshooting sections.

And have you down loaded your free ETM PDF file?:

http://wedophones.com/BMWManualsLead.htm

[jbd5015]

Ive got the file, and im getting better at reading it. Im just puzzled as to why it wont run.

But if im getting fuel through the pressure regulator, doesnt that mean that im getting fuel through the rail and the pump is working?

Im thinking of trying to jump the diagnostic in the engine bay. Just precautionary because im not experienced in jumping things yet. Do i run a decent sized copper wire from pin 11 to pin 14? If im wrong, someone please just explain this to me! Also, can i buy premade jumpers or should i just use any old wire?

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

paper clips make good jumpers

[jbd5015]

paper clips make good jumpers

Good call! beings that finals are coming up and school is done (for me) May 7th, ill be able to really crank down and figure this problem out!...CANT WAIT!!!

-Jeff

[jbd5015]

I talked to Mr. Haygood to other day about ordering some parts and told him the issue im having. He says that it could be the injectors not firing. Anyone know the fix for this? Makes sense if the regulator is working, all the fuel that isnt going through the injectors will come back through. And it fires on starting fluid, and there isnt a wiff of fuel when trying to fire. I dont know how to test the injectors to see if they are working. Get back monday...will start to work on tuesday. New bilstein sports coming my way late next week too...$335 shipped brand spanking new in the box baby...gotta love ebay.

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

You can get a noid light from most autoparts stores that plugs into an injector plug and lites when firing. Or you can check with a meter. Also if your plugs are wet and have a lot of fuel on them from cranking, then you may be able to assume the injectors are firing.

[CW6er]

I dont know how to test the injectors to see if they are working.
-Jeff

Check out this post for how to check both contacts of the main relay:

http://bigcoupe.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4482

and then check for power at the red/white wire in an injector harness plug with the key on.

[jbd5015]

Alrighty...Time for an Update!

Started work this morning on the car. Took the intake boot off to look at the idle control valve and to make getting to the injectors better. Found a 1.5 inch long crack on the tube going from intake boot to ICV. Dont have transportation, so i taped it for a temp fix. Looked at the injectors, no sign of anything leaking, the engine is clean as a whistle, just dusty. Plugs show no sign of being shot. So i button it all back up, go in the car and turn the key....NOTHING! Only this time it doesnt even turn over, click nothing. Tried jumping the 11 and 14 pin on the diagnostic with no success, although i think im doing it wrong. I tried it with a paper clip, key on and key off,and nothing. Some sparks in the connector but nothing. Stumped, the car was cranking fine and wouldnt fire 3 weeks ago, now after switching the ECU it wont do nothing. Ive got 2 ECU's now, and both did the same thing. YARGH!

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

Have you checked battery voltage? Are grounds to the battery good? After setting a few weeks and after repeated cranking and no start; I would not be surprised if the battery was dead.

Do you get any power anywhere at this point?

[jbd5015]

Im getting strange things happening. I was getting power for the lights inside, check lights, lights in the dash (Oil, Brake, Parkign Brake). But its kinda loopy now, things are weird. Would that be from low voltage? I dont have a voltage tester and my battery charger is...lets say i dont think it works proper. The battery was new a few weeks back, perhaps trying a jump?

-Jeff

[alpinacsi]

Well a new battery may have had a weak charge to begin with. Without knowing how long it sat on the shelf at the parts store and knowing that you have not had the car running to charge it, it could be almost dead. These cars can also drain a battery just sitting around when they are in working order. Charge the battery or jump it to see if there is any difference.

[jbd5015]

Update,

Got up this morning to start with suspension/interior upgrade im doing.

From 830 to 1130 i did:

1. Pulled front and rear suspension, leaving car on stands.
2. Pulled complete rear interior (seats, side panels, pods, center seat, etc.)
3. Took the rear suspension apart.

Pretty good for by myself. New bilsteins came in at 12 when i left to get an interview for summer job. Tomorrow is:

1. Napa store for spring compressor and ball joint separator.
2. Pull upper control arms, get new HD bushings pressed in by local shop.
3. Put bilstein sports in and suspension back together.
4. Charge/replace battery.

Todd, you're right on about the battery. I think its just on its last legs. I tried jumping it earlier, i got a click, and all the lights in the cabin were definitely brighter, and CD player kicked on. So ive gotta find a good charger cause i think mine is toast. Pictures to follow tomorrow with the new suspension and some of the "new" interior in.

Thanks guys-

-Jeff

[dm635]

you can check a low battery easy. turn the key on and hit the horn. then turn on all the heavy consumers like headights(incl high beams),flashers,anything that uses power,and then listen to the horn again while everything is on. if the batt is low you may then get a squeak from the horn if the battery is indeed low. with a low battery you still have 12v that will light up the instument lights,but you have no amperage to crank the starter.