97 328iC wheel shake issue.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 10:58 AM

I have a constant wheel shimmy at speeds above 60MPH I have had the wheels rebalanced and the problem persisted. I also have NEW rims and tires on the car and the problem is still there. I have New tie-rods and CAB's and the mechanic has assured me that the ball joints look fine. The only thing he can think of now is when we had the car in the air and spun the wheels, you could hear the pad rubbing against the rotor and he thinks that warped rotors are causing the problem.. Also you can feel the problem when you are braking above 60 as well. So I really am out of cash and at my wit's end. What do you all think?

**thejlevie** · 05-03-2006, 11:15 AM

Are the wheels OE or aftermarket? Some aftermarket wheels are such a loose fit on the centering hubs as to make off the car balancing impossible. After the suspension repairs was the car aligned using BMW's procedure, which includes weighting the car to standard ride height?

It is normal to hear a slight scrape form the brake pads if the brakes have been used just before you lift the car and rotate a wheel. Warped rotors could cause a vibration under braking, but if you only feel it in the steering wheel and not in the brake pedal the odds are that you don't have that problem. in any event, a quick check with a dial indicator will reveal any warp.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 11:38 AM

Originally Posted by thejlevie

Are the wheels OE or aftermarket? Some aftermarket wheels are such a loose fit on the centering hubs as to make off the car balancing impossible. After the suspension repairs was the car aligned using BMW's procedure, which includes weighting the car to standard ride height?

It is normal to hear a slight scrape form the brake pads if the brakes have been used just before you lift the car and rotate a wheel. Warped rotors could cause a vibration under braking, but if you only feel it in the steering wheel and not in the brake pedal the odds are that you don't have that problem. in any event, a quick check with a dial indicator will reveal any warp.

The wheels are OE Doublespoke I's all true, no bends. The car was realigned but not at a BMW shop, but a place that specializes in european cars.

**German Pride 10** · 05-03-2006, 12:54 PM

I've got the same issue. I'll let you know if I get it solved. Trust me, I've tried more than you have at this point.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 01:08 PM

Originally Posted by German Pride 10

I've got the same issue. I'll let you know if I get it solved. Trust me, I've tried more than you have at this point.

Thanks man, will be in touch, appreciated!

**thejlevie** · 05-03-2006, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by amancuso

The wheels are OE Doublespoke I's all true, no bends. The car was realigned but not at a BMW shop, but a place that specializes in european cars.

But did they weight the car? If not it isn't correctly aligned.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 01:37 PM

Originally Posted by thejlevie

But did they weight the car? If not it isn't correctly aligned.

I don't know... probably not, would this cause the symptoms I'm having?

**German Pride 10** · 05-03-2006, 02:19 PM

Well when I had mine aligned, it was done to BMW specifications (full tank of fuel/weighted down accordingly). Didn't solve the issue.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 02:54 PM

FYI My control arm bushings were replaced with solid ones... is it possible that the solid bushings are transferring more road bumps to the wheel causing my shimmy?? (I can't remember if I had the same problem before the bushings were changed)

**German Pride 10** · 05-03-2006, 02:59 PM

Naw that won't be the case either. I put in M3 CABs after I upgraded my brakes. All those do is prevent the front steering from initially "jerking" one way or the other when you first step on the brake.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 03:01 PM

OK, we have to get to the bottom of this! It makes me not want to drive the car on long trips. also I dont want to risk damaging the steering rack.

**German Pride 10** · 05-03-2006, 05:08 PM

Well it makes me not want to drive mine because I feel like a complete tool rolling down the highway at 65mph and the car is shaking like a rattle trap.

**thejlevie** · 05-03-2006, 06:24 PM

Originally Posted by amancuso

I don't know... probably not, would this cause the symptoms I'm having?

The design of the BMW suspension is such that its geometry changes with ride height. The alignment specifications are for the car at standard ride height and if an alignment is done without the weights in the car to get to standard ride height the result is simply wrong. Whether that error is enough to cause shimmy depends on a number of factors.

Since your tie rods and wishbone bushings have been replaced, the next likely candidates are the struts & tires. If you have over 60-70K on OE struts they are probably pretty well blown out and will aggravate any balance or roundness issues with the wheels/rires. A "Road Force" balance might help. But before doing that I'd check for out of round (axial & radial) with the wheels mounted.

**amancuso** · 05-03-2006, 06:30 PM

Originally Posted by thejlevie

The design of the BMW suspension is such that its geometry changes with ride height. The alignment specifications are for the car at standard ride height and if an alignment is done without the weights in the car to get to standard ride height the result is simply wrong. Whether that error is enough to cause shimmy depends on a number of factors.

Since your tie rods and wishbone bushings have been replaced, the next likely candidates are the struts & tires. If you have over 60-70K on OE struts they are probably pretty well blown out and will aggravate any balance or roundness issues with the wheels/rires. A "Road Force" balance might help. But before doing that I'd check for out of round (axial & radial) with the wheels mounted.

The Rims were just checked and are brand new as are the tires. The symptoms are exactly the same now as they were with the old rim/tire set up. My father also seems to think it is rotor related, and I have read of a guy with a 5 series who had the same problem, suspension and wheel set up were ok ended up being bad rotors... they are 1 1/2 years old maybe I should just change em?
Also, after having some work done on the car, the wheels were put on by a moron with an air gun and I couldnt get the rims off, could this have damaged the rotors causing the problem I am having?

**thejlevie** · 05-03-2006, 07:04 PM

Were they checked on the car? That's the only case that matters.

The lug bolts tighten against the wheel hub, not the rotors. But incorrect installation could off center the wheel. Correct installation is done in a star pattern with a torque wrench set to 88-89ft-lbs.

At the risk of being redundant... If you don't feel vibration in the brake pedal under braking, any vibration issue in the steering wheel has a cause other than the rotors.

**aiwapro** · 05-03-2006, 08:42 PM

I have this issue on a 99' 528i, but no issues with braking, such as; vibrations, or steering wheel shaking. I do have strong forceful vribration, when braking hard, but I think it is from the ABS.

**amancuso** · 05-04-2006, 09:15 AM

This is what leads my father and I to believe it's the rotors... http://bimmer.roadfly.com/bmw/forums/e39/1213512-1.html

Also last time I did the brakes I used aftermarket rotors, not BMW OEM.

**German Pride 10** · 05-04-2006, 03:02 PM

Well I measured the run out on my rotors and they were out by 3-4 thousandths. But how in the hell are you supposed to get it to 0 thousandths runout when there is only one 1 screw on one side of the rotor holding it on to the hub? That's like trying to get 0 runout on a rim with only 1 lug bolt holding it on.

PS - my rotors are Brembo and I believe they are 13 or 13.5 inch in diameter. The weigh quite a bit more than the OEM ATE rotors. So any wobble will be amplified.

**amancuso** · 05-04-2006, 03:14 PM

I read the rest of the responses there and apart from air gunning the wheel on, corrosion build up on the hat could also cause thing... Should be getting new front pads/rotors in a few weeks to test this out.

**thejlevie** · 05-04-2006, 03:20 PM

When checking runout on rotors you either need the wheel mounted or bolts (to 88-89ft-lbs) in place of the lug bolts. If you check for runout with only the rotor retaining screw in place you can get false readings.

**German Pride 10** · 05-04-2006, 03:33 PM

Originally Posted by thejlevie

When checking runout on rotors you either need the wheel mounted or bolts (to 88-89ft-lbs) in place of the lug bolts. If you check for runout with only the rotor retaining screw in place you can get false readings.

Ok makes sense. I can't measure runout with the wheel on due to the lack of room. However, I can put just the lugs in. One question though - how do you torque down the fronts with the car in the air and no one to hold the brakes for me.

BTW I use 87 ft lbs. Also, is there a recommended pressure to torque that rotor retaining screw to?

**German Pride 10** · 05-04-2006, 03:37 PM

On the other hand I am thinking it's not a good thing to use the lugs without the wheel because of the taper on them. Should just use a regular flat face bolt.