Finally I get around to modifying my E36....
With the help of Active Autowerke I get to be the lucky one to show off the first Active Autowerke Supercharged E36 M3.
Note: This is still in the prototype/R&D phase and nothing shown is the final kit. I will post new updated pictures and dyno sheets as the car nears "completion."
First Impressions: well I skipped out of work early Friday to shoot down to Active and see my car. Little did I know it was "running" and I would be able to drive it a little. Karl asked me to put a few miles on it and bring it back in Saturday morning. Well after a brief 400+ miles Friday night and Saturday morning the car was still running and I was definatley smiling.
Biggest things I noticed... Power comes on nice and smooth and the car does not feel like it is going to get away from you. I have driven a few of the AA turboed M3s and they can be downright scary. This car I would not be afraid to let my Mother or Father drive. The car feels like a peppier stock M3 in the low RPM range, but over 3000 it starts pulling harder and harder right up to redline. I drove alot and experienced no heatsoak whatsoever, apparently the FMIC works well, I did 8-10 5th to 4th drop and run to 120 to see if there would be any performance degradation and there was none that I could notice.
I will post a few pics and a dynosheet or 2 in this thread.
Please feel free to ask questions.
As for pricing I was discussing it with AA today and from what they have told me it will be extremely reasonable for the type of kit they are producing. I still can not give further details on the pricing but once I get pricing I will let you know.
E46 people, the kit is in the works and will be at the South Florida Autoshow. This will be the official introduction of that kit and as such I have no information yet. I was allowed to see the car it is in but that is about it.
I am still working on the "pre-release" pricing for E36s and E46s so if you are interested send me an email with your name, car, etc... esp@dtmpower.net
Mustang Dyno:
Oh, my car is stock except for the S/C I will be adding a GEN III exhaust eventually and with any mods I do I will dyno before and after.
06 MINI Cooper S
97 E39 528i
and another British Vehicle
Sweet!
Do you know how much boost it is running to get those dyno numbers?
Is AA working on a kit for the e46 M3 too?
whoa !!!!!!!
excellent, let me know where i sign.
Jeff
1988 E30 M3, my Lachsilber Track Rat
What supercharger is that?
"It's not the people who vote that count, it's the people who count the votes."
-DNC
Nice indeed. John, it appears to be the Rotrex unit that Stimpee has been referring to. If FMIC essentially cures heatsoak, I'd be very very tempted to go with a kit like this.
In the slow lane
fla_esp,
When running back to back dyno runs with a non-intercooled blower setup from Dinan, I think AA found (as well as others) that heat soak caused successive drops in power.
Did you run into any such issues with your setup? What kind of temp drop does the FMIC provide?
In the slow lane
Out of curiosity, how does this design prevent/minimize heatsoak? It seems more enclosed but isn't heat generated "inside" the compressor since that is where the air is actually compressed?Originally posted by frayed
Nice indeed. John, it appears to be the Rotrex unit that Stimpee has been referring to. If FMIC essentially cures heatsoak, I'd be very very tempted to go with a kit like this.
James
2005 Imola Red M3 - VF Stage I Supercharged Street/Track Car
E46 M3 VF Engineering Stage I Supercharger DIY
Heat is generated by all compressors, all forms of turbos and blowers. PV = nRT and the intrinsic adiabatic inefficiency of the unit.
The whole idea of a heat exchanger is to remove heat from the intake charge to provide safer running conditions, more power, and prevent heatsoak. Without an effective means to remove heat from the intake charge, it eventually becomes saturated, your dme pulls out timing, you drop hp by the tens, and you get closer to dangerous running conditions (detonation).
In the slow lane
I understand all of that. You made a comment that this type of compressor solved the heat soak problem without using an intercooler. I was just wondering how this particular design was able to accomplish that task without using an intercooler.Originally posted by frayed
Heat is generated by all compressors, all forms of turbos and blowers. PV = nRT and the intrinsic adiabatic inefficiency of the unit.
The whole idea of a heat exchanger is to remove heat from the intake charge to provide safer running conditions, more power, and prevent heatsoak. Without an effective means to remove heat from the intake charge, it eventually becomes saturated, your dme pulls out timing, you drop hp by the tens, and you get closer to dangerous running conditions (detonation).
James
2005 Imola Red M3 - VF Stage I Supercharged Street/Track Car
E46 M3 VF Engineering Stage I Supercharger DIY
I was referring to the FMIC (front mounted intercooler) that AA is running with their new kits as a means to cure heatsoak, not the blower itself.
In the slow lane
Oh, I see. One thing I have learned about you, Jeff, is that you use more acronyms than the military !! And I know since I am in the Navy!!!
I am still a bit curious as to why the numbers seem so low when compared to other SC kits on the market, especially since it uses an intercooler (and an oil cooler from the looks of the picture). I am assuming the software and probably pulley size is still "very young" since I would think a kit like that would be on par with the other SC kits on the market.
James
2005 Imola Red M3 - VF Stage I Supercharged Street/Track Car
E46 M3 VF Engineering Stage I Supercharger DIY
Right now we are running 8lbs of boost.
A E46 kit will be available soon but I don't think a M3 kit will be available at the same time. It may be planned for the future though, I am not sure but can try and find out.
Back to Back runs with my setup have resulted in almost exactly the same #s, nothing to indicate that heatsoak was the culprit, just the typical run to run variation. I have seen back to back runs on SCed systems with no FMIC or Water Injection and the cars can lose 30+hp and similar torque rather quickly. I have driven some of these cars as well and you definately feel it. I tried to force my car, did a bunch of 4th gear runs back to back and experienced no heatsoak, well according to the buttdyno.
06 MINI Cooper S
97 E39 528i
and another British Vehicle
Jesus. IMHO, if they are going to supercharge the E46 M3 without lowering the compression, they might as well add a button marked "explode" in the dash.Originally posted by fla_esp
Right now we are running 8lbs of boost.
A E46 kit will be available soon but I don't think a M3 kit will be available at the same time. It may be planned for the future though, I am not sure but can try and find out.
hehe
fla esp,
That's pretty amazing given the heatsoak issues with practially every other kit out there. I'm pretty psyched about the kit, since AA took the *right* approach with it. With AA's tuning, an FMIC, and AA's quality engineering, it looks very promising.
The only unknown/risk from my perspective is the compressor unit itself. Vortech, OTOH (this is an acronym for James ), has been around and in use here in the states for quite a long time. Rotrex is unknown here. There doesn't seem to be much info on them, and they are practically unknown here in the US. I remain optimistic though.
In the slow lane
Originally posted by Brad D.
Jesus. IMHO, if they are going to supercharge the E46 M3 without lowering the compression, they might as well add a button marked "explode" in the dash.
hehe
hehehe, BMW has that feature built in already without doing any FI.
I think that may be part of the reason why Active has not really addressed the E46 M3.
06 MINI Cooper S
97 E39 528i
and another British Vehicle
It is most definitely the reason. That engine is already putting out an incredible amount of power for a street driven engine. It's already stressed to the max.Originally posted by fla_esp
hehehe, BMW has that feature built in already without doing any FI.
I think that may be part of the reason why Active has not really addressed the E46 M3.
BTW, yesterday I raced a E46M3 from a 50mph roll on low boost and absolutely slaughtered him. I just wanted to see how they do against the supra.
any idea's when this kit will be availible to the public and what the pricing with be? why do thos numbers seem much lower then other kits out there?
'98 Arctic Silver/Black M3
'94 chevy blazer tahoe
Pricing and availability information will be known shortly. I am working with AA trying to get some discounted pricing, not sure exactly how that will work but I am hoping to save everyone a few dollars.Originally posted by slvrm3
any idea's when this kit will be availible to the public and what the pricing with be? why do thos numbers seem much lower then other kits out there?
As for the #s seeming to be lower, I run on a Mustang Dyno, that may be the reason. I plan on running on a dynojet to so that people can see the #s produced on one. The #s presently posted are just from some preliminary runs, Active told me I could post them as long as I stated that the kit is still very much under development and in the process of being fully developed.
06 MINI Cooper S
97 E39 528i
and another British Vehicle
The Dyno doesn't seem low to me. Dinan blowers are putting down 260 at 7 psi and 275 at 8psi on AA's dyno.
In the slow lane
very nice! I love the FMIC.. too bad we cant fit one with the vortech blowers. I would love a FMIC. Does that SC tap into the motor oil from the motor or is it a sealed unit with the oil cooler? that god for Aquamist.
06' BMW 530xi
02' Porsche 911 Carrera
11' BMW X3
Looking at the AA s/c kit and the GSM s/c kit, the blowers are in they same place as the Vortech. They just designed a FMIC for each kit. The routing of the piping appears to be the same in both kits. We need someone to design a FMIC for the Vortech units. The piping would mostly liking route the same way. I asked GSM to purchase there FMIC, piping and hardware, but they wouldn't sell it to me. I spoke to Karl on purchasing their turbo FMIC, and he said they would need an E36 M3 to use as a guide for the piping layout. Also, the piping would have to be the same size as the Vortech s/c inlet/discharge openings. AA would be the ONLY candidate to design, produce and sell this FMIC kit for our Vortech units. They do everything the right way, and don't rush to sell it w/o fully testing it.
Ray
fitting piping the same size as the discharge tube for a FMIC seems almost impossible without major mods. But if AA or anyone is able to do it.. sign me up!
06' BMW 530xi
02' Porsche 911 Carrera
11' BMW X3
Stylin,
You just can't seem to go fast enough, can you?
I'm gonna go cry in a corner now...
Roman
F10 2011 550i Sport 6 speed
E46 2005 ZHP Sedan 6 speed (for sale)
E36 1996 328i Sport
very true... I think people are used to looking at Dynojet #s as they seem to be better as they are consistently. Personally I don't care what the top #s are just what the delta is.Originally posted by frayed
The Dyno doesn't seem low to me. Dinan blowers are putting down 260 at 7 psi and 275 at 8psi on AA's dyno.
Willy the Oil Cooler is exclusively for the SC and is separate from the rest of the car's system.
06 MINI Cooper S
97 E39 528i
and another British Vehicle
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