So it looks like minis have their own issues too

**yonoconozco** · 03-26-2006, 09:59 AM

I read about a guy here having trouble fitting his strut brace on because the bolts weren't level. Could this be why? And did you hit a massive pothole or anything?

While I was browsing for info on Mini Coopers (saving dimes and nickels for either a Mini-S or M-Coupe), I came upon this.
http://northamericanmotoring.com/for...mushroom+strut
http://www.northamericanmotoring.com...ad.php?t=61821

**skidder** · 03-26-2006, 10:53 AM

This thread may get tagged as being off topic.

But, yes - a friend of mine has had this problem on his. The picture above is a pretty strong example of it. That particular car even looks as if the body has slighly pulled away from the mount on the fender side. (as demonstrated by the seam glue seperation) My buddy gave his back, end of lease return.

BMW cars are performance machines often driven by performance drivers. Therefore, they are subject to extreme forces. Apparently, the engineering wasn't robust enough to handle it. In engineering, scarcity of resources is the key. One hell'va machine can be built for a huge expense (that few will pay) or settle for a design that will work for most at a moderate cost. I guess the Z8 isn't an example of that tho - huge expense, just unconventional materials thus, it still has problems.

However, after seeing all these issues, I'd vote for some engineers to take remedial classes in Physics and Metallurgy... Tho make sure you send the front office people along too. Most of the time the fail point is the compromise between the budget office and the design room.

**yonoconozco** · 03-26-2006, 11:09 AM

hi skidder, I don't think it should be marked as off-topic because it's related to the subframe issue and i mentioned one of the board member's strut tower problem.

Anyways, I think this is just a combination of poor engineering and construction. Maybe thicker steel should have been used or more weld spots? Plenty of Japanese sports cars out there don't have structural problems, at least I haven't heard of any and they're driven just as hard on the track and by teenagers.

**Blacksport350** · 03-26-2006, 11:09 AM

A lot of Minis are going to the track with some pretty serious suspensions fitted and doing things that they were never designed to do. It is no big surprise that they are coming apart. One of the frist things you do when you build a race car is seem weld the chassis so things like the above will not happen! This is not done on street cars and weekend track specials which are now getting race car tires and suspensions!

Also, the M Coupe and M Roadster already have a fix to prevent the strut tower from bulging. It is a metal plate that sits in top of the strut assembly to prevent it from bending and deforming the tower. There was never a problem with this that I had seen on any E36 M version which were all fitted with these. Even my '95 M3 had these from the factory.

**yonoconozco** · 03-26-2006, 11:12 AM

If i recall correctly a bunch of the mushroomed towers happened on street cars, mostly with the 17s.

**skidder** · 03-26-2006, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by Blacksport350

A lot of Minis are going to the track with some pretty serious suspensions fitted and doing things that they were never designed to do. It is no big surprise that they are coming apart. One of the frist things you do when you build a race car is seem weld the chassis so things like the above will not happen! This is not done on street cars and weekend track specials which are now getting race car tires and suspensions!

Point well made. I agree, if you damage your car thru acts you chose to make - i.e. performance modifications and/or extreme driving; that was a choice you made and you shall be held liable. The real hard part is determining fault. Where do you draw the line, any modification voids warranty? It would be very hard to prove that a certain modification changed the physics enough to cause a failure point.

However, cases I've seen: It happens to be occurring in stock chassis that are not being driven off DOT certified roads. Sure, they may get some spirited driving. But that is the image BMW sells. If they wanted their cars driven like Miss Daisy - I doubt anyone would purchase them. "Ultimate Driving Machine"...

That is my issue with these flaws.

**ken_vs_ryu** · 03-26-2006, 12:19 PM

mini owners deserve it.

**JBgotM** · 03-26-2006, 08:12 PM

Originally Posted by skidder

PoSure, they may get some spirited driving. But that is the image BMW sells. If they wanted their cars driven like Miss Daisy - I doubt anyone would purchase them. "Ultimate Driving Machine"...

the Z4 M Roadster ...... "Not designed to haul anything....well, maybe one thing".

yeah right, I wonder what catastrophic failure thosecars will see