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Thread: Problems after your M50 manifold swap?

  1. #1
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    Problems after your M50 manifold swap?

    Has anyone noticed ruff start up, or the car just running "differently" I have been warned that after the m50 install the car just acts different.

    Besides power increase and little loss in torque I would like to hear any problems that have been created since your install.

    Thanks for any help.

    -Andrew


    FYI: I have M50 waiting to be installed.

  2. #2
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    This really has been talked about a lot...did you try a search?
    I did awhile back before I bought my M50 install kit from Eurosport. It seems that most people get a rough idle at first after the swap, but once the DME learns its new added air flow all smooths out. Hopefully I'll be finding this out for myself real soon...

  3. #3
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    Thanks for your response.

    Yes, I did search and have been reading up on some of the threads. I have heard the idle is rough , but doesnt ever seem to go AWAY but mostly people just get used to it.


    Im looking more for personal experiance, even though Im ordering the kit today...

  4. #4
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    If it runs rough you probably have a vacuum leak. Find the leak and it'll run right.


  5. #5
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    I didn't have any problems after my M50 intake manifold install on my 99 M3.

    Rough idle is usually result of a vacuum leak.

  6. #6
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    Mine started up fine right after the install. Every now and then on cold starts it idles rough and the engine shakes slightly for only 5-10 seconds or so. Would a vacuum leak cause this? Don't forget to clean your ICV while you have everything off. I forgot to and I think that might be causing the rough idle on cold starts.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by eXpLiCiT
    Mine started up fine right after the install. Every now and then on cold starts it idles rough and the engine shakes slightly for only 5-10 seconds or so. Would a vacuum leak cause this? Don't forget to clean your ICV while you have everything off. I forgot to and I think that might be causing the rough idle on cold starts.
    Ya I plan on doing the ICV, just a little carb cleaner should do the trick.

    My car somtimes drops as low as 350 Rpm's and then shakes for a second but I bring her on up to 1000 RPM's. This ussually happens on really cold night and mornings or when I haven't driven the car in a couple days.


  8. #8
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    yah, when I had the m50 manifold on my car, it was really rough on the initial start up but then after a minute of trimming, the idle tended to smooth out.

    Also, i dont know how you hooked up the hoses or if you have the eurosport adapter but I did have a problem with the main hose that goes into the connector behind the manifold opening. If that hose gets kinked, then you may stall on start up.... make sure it is as straight or unimpeded when doing the install.
    Thats really it.

    Yes , the manifold runs rougher and sounds different than the stock manfiold but you do alter the stock flow of the car...... its not the same anymore.

    Watch out for vacuum leaks although it may not neccessarily be the culprit of why the car is running rough.......... it just runs rougher with the new manifold

    I took mine out because vs, the power uptop you gain as opposed to the low end torque you lose and the rougher idles, I found it more productive to take it out and swap back to the stock manifold. I like low end torque better for around the city.

  9. #9
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    Im worried that this is gonna make the car run to rough and I wont like it.

  10. #10
    rcM3 is offline baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...
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    Your car won't run rough. In fact, as long as you clean the ICV while your in there it will run better.

    I started mine up with the m50 today and its great!

  11. #11
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    the stock start routine (with stock mani) of the software runs rougher than the m50 swap. I have the conforti software and that fixed the cold start roughness. I have very little roughness at start up...maybe 10 seconds of 50 rpm hunting. after that it is a perfectly steady idle. this was no different before the change to the S50 manifold

    I don't know if the teeny little bit of cold idle hunting I get could be fixed but it's not anoying to me.


    but it doesn't get real cold in SoCal so I don't know if it would be worse in a colder climate.
    Eric Paul Eviston - 1 Piece Silicone Hose M50 Manifold Conversion Kit

    ******M50 Manifold Install Trouble Shooting Guide Here: www.m50manifold.com

    '98 M3/4 - ECIS CAI, S50 Manifold, Conforti Software, 16" Spal Puller, UUC Pulleys, Fan Delete, UUC Stage 2 Fly w/M5 Clutch, UUC Blacks w/TMEs, X-Brace, GC RTAB shims, GC RSMs,
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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcM3
    Your car won't run rough. In fact, as long as you clean the ICV while your in there it will run better.

    I started mine up with the m50 today and its great!
    Whats your overall view of the M50 change? Was it worth it, can you really FEEL it? Any sound differance that you can tell?

    Whats the general opinion of the swap?

  13. #13
    rcM3 is offline baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...
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    Quote Originally Posted by cosmom3
    Whats your overall view of the M50 change? Was it worth it, can you really FEEL it? Any sound differance that you can tell?

    Whats the general opinion of the swap?
    Unfortunitely I can't say quite yet as have to break in my rebuilt head and new gaskets until I can get on it. I've been driving around under 4k and I can say that there is some slight low end torque loss most noticable in 4th and 5th gear. Thats not where it really counts though!!!

    Overall it was an easy install, only made difficult because the head was off and EVERYTHING was detached. If doing just the manifold swap it will be much easier to keep track of what wires go where.

    Once you collect all the parts for the DIY and have the manifold off it is easy to visualize. The most difficult part is cutting the mounting brackets for the fuel rail so that it fits into place. Don't buy the kit. Save your money for something you actually need.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by rcM3
    Unfortunitely I can't say quite yet as have to break in my rebuilt head and new gaskets until I can get on it. I've been driving around under 4k and I can say that there is some slight low end torque loss most noticable in 4th and 5th gear. Thats not where it really counts though!!!

    Overall it was an easy install, only made difficult because the head was off and EVERYTHING was detached. If doing just the manifold swap it will be much easier to keep track of what wires go where.

    Once you collect all the parts for the DIY and have the manifold off it is easy to visualize. The most difficult part is cutting the mounting brackets for the fuel rail so that it fits into place. Don't buy the kit. Save your money for something you actually need.
    Im prolly gonna be buying the kit, I have been advised by my mechanic that they have dealt with homemade kits and alot things have gone wrong, resulting in lots of money to fix it.


    Well, keep me updated on how it goes

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Daydream M3
    yah, when I had the m50 manifold on my car, it was really rough on the initial start up but then after a minute of trimming, the idle tended to smooth out.

    Also, i dont know how you hooked up the hoses or if you have the eurosport adapter but I did have a problem with the main hose that goes into the connector behind the manifold opening. If that hose gets kinked, then you may stall on start up.... make sure it is as straight or unimpeded when doing the install.
    Thats really it.

    Yes , the manifold runs rougher and sounds different than the stock manfiold but you do alter the stock flow of the car...... its not the same anymore.

    Watch out for vacuum leaks although it may not neccessarily be the culprit of why the car is running rough.......... it just runs rougher with the new manifold

    I took mine out because vs, the power uptop you gain as opposed to the low end torque you lose and the rougher idles, I found it more productive to take it out and swap back to the stock manifold. I like low end torque better for around the city.
    If your car ran rough with it, you didn't install it right or had a vacuum leak still. It absolutely should not rougher with an M50 manifold.


  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParadigmGuy
    If your car ran rough with it, you didn't install it right or had a vacuum leak still. It absolutely should not rougher with an M50 manifold.
    +1
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  17. #17
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    My car gets rough at 3k RPMs but only if I am cruising at it. It kind of sputters like a vacuum leak.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by E36M3E
    the stock start routine (with stock mani) of the software runs rougher than the m50 swap. I have the conforti software and that fixed the cold start roughness. I have very little roughness at start up...maybe 10 seconds of 50 rpm hunting. after that it is a perfectly steady idle. this was no different before the change to the S50 manifold

    I don't know if the teeny little bit of cold idle hunting I get could be fixed but it's not anoying to me.


    but it doesn't get real cold in SoCal so I don't know if it would be worse in a colder climate.
    i have the exact same experience with the initial start up roughness. did the software really smooth it out? i was debating the price for what seems like minimal gains. if it does help the rough start up, i might go ahead and purchase it though.

  19. #19
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    My car runs and idles perfectly...no different than with the stock S52 manifold. Just gotta watch out for vac leaks as others have stated. Personally, I think it's a worthwhile mod to do the M50 manifold swap...definitley a noticeable difference IMHO, but you do lose a little in terms of low end.

    As for whether to buy the kit or not...if you have a mechanical mind and can "figure stuff out", don't buy the kit and install it yourself. If you don't posess good mechanical skills or have a mechanical mentaility, buy the kit. You'll be better off in the long run.
    For me, the kit is a waste of money. I spent a total of maybe $30 in parts plus the manifold and it work flawlessly and idles as smoothly as it did before. I couldn't justify the amount of $$$ they're asking for that kit when I was sure I could piece it together and get it to work properly.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by prior
    i have the exact same experience with the initial start up roughness. did the software really smooth it out? i was debating the price for what seems like minimal gains. if it does help the rough start up, i might go ahead and purchase it though.
    I do believe it smoothed mine out but I didn't know it was going to do that until after I bought it and was experimenting with it installed and not installed...going back and forth from conforti to stock software. thats when I really noticed how bad the stock cold start routine is.

    then I searched and found this to be a very common perception of the conforti software and I'm still not sure if he designed it that way on purpose or it was just a pleasant indirect result of his efforts.
    Eric Paul Eviston - 1 Piece Silicone Hose M50 Manifold Conversion Kit

    ******M50 Manifold Install Trouble Shooting Guide Here: www.m50manifold.com

    '98 M3/4 - ECIS CAI, S50 Manifold, Conforti Software, 16" Spal Puller, UUC Pulleys, Fan Delete, UUC Stage 2 Fly w/M5 Clutch, UUC Blacks w/TMEs, X-Brace, GC RTAB shims, GC RSMs,
    M Roadster lever, 245x40x17 all 4 corners, Drilled Zimmermans, Motul RBF600 and Redline Synth fluids.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mpowered02
    My car runs and idles perfectly...no different than with the stock S52 manifold. Just gotta watch out for vac leaks as others have stated. Personally, I think it's a worthwhile mod to do the M50 manifold swap...definitley a noticeable difference IMHO, but you do lose a little in terms of low end.

    As for whether to buy the kit or not...if you have a mechanical mind and can "figure stuff out", don't buy the kit and install it yourself. If you don't posess good mechanical skills or have a mechanical mentaility, buy the kit. You'll be better off in the long run.
    For me, the kit is a waste of money. I spent a total of maybe $30 in parts plus the manifold and it work flawlessly and idles as smoothly as it did before. I couldn't justify the amount of $$$ they're asking for that kit when I was sure I could piece it together and get it to work properly.
    agreed...and you don't have to use zipties and weld any brackets. you can use your OBDII bracket (slightly modified) with another simple bracket and everything (dip stick, ICV, crank vent, both front and rear manifold supports) bolts up just like the OBDII manifold.

    you do still have to use all the hose and elbows though which I have had no probs with to date.
    Eric Paul Eviston - 1 Piece Silicone Hose M50 Manifold Conversion Kit

    ******M50 Manifold Install Trouble Shooting Guide Here: www.m50manifold.com

    '98 M3/4 - ECIS CAI, S50 Manifold, Conforti Software, 16" Spal Puller, UUC Pulleys, Fan Delete, UUC Stage 2 Fly w/M5 Clutch, UUC Blacks w/TMEs, X-Brace, GC RTAB shims, GC RSMs,
    M Roadster lever, 245x40x17 all 4 corners, Drilled Zimmermans, Motul RBF600 and Redline Synth fluids.
    My Dyno HERE
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  22. #22
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    If I decide to do the swap again, I would certainly buy the eurosport adapter kit for sure no questions asked.

    It makes the install cleaner and yes, you would rarely ever worry about vacuum lines leaking and such.

    I did notice a torque loss and whether it was worth the high end horsepower gained, I can never really make up my mind.

    You do get a surge at 4000rpm but that may be an artifact of losing the torque and then getting a bump in bhp that makes it feel like your actually feeling a power gain. Im not saying that the m50 doesnt yield any power gains because it clearly has been documented on numerous dyno sheets, but really............... you have to ask yourself the question of whether you are always going to pin it in the high rpm band?

    You should read the European car article issue Feb 2006. There is a good write up and dyno plots of the eurosport m50 manifold and cam kit. However, do pay attention to the dyno plots at the back where one shows bhp and one shows torque...... look at how much torque is lost to how much bhp is picked up in the higher rpm band. The power you get up top lasts from 5500 - 7000 but really, your redline starts just after 6500 if I remember correctly..... so you gain the power between a 1000 rpm difference unless you wanna ride it in the redband all the time?Between 3000-4500, you lose more bhp (not torque) compared to the eurosport software and chip alone...... im not sure if I am making sense but read the article (its available on the euro car webpage). It makes more sense there.

    im not trying to bash the m50 manifold because I have tried it and am very familiar with the install but i dont think it was worth the loss in torque for me anyways? I also had a lot of issues with vacuum leaks.
    If you combined it with cams (which still yields less torque than the eurosport intake and software alone) or forced induction, then I can see a point in using it. But can anyone actually say that if they took a stock M3 and ran it against another stock M3 with an M50 (OBD2) that the m50 will win? I think I remember someone doing that and they lost in the M50?

    Just my opinion anyways from a member that has tried it and reverted back to the stock manifold. Whatever you do, good luck!

  23. #23
    rcM3 is offline baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah...
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    I had no vacuum leaks whatsoever. I used 14 hose clamps, 4 plastic 3/8 ID 90 degree elbows, one 3/8 ID plastic T fitting, 3 ft of 3/8 ID rubber coolant hose, 2 ft of 3/16 ID rubber hose.

    There is no hesitation, roughness, bad idle, or anything negative. I am going to do it on my friends car next week. Done right, there should be no problems.

    Another perspective is that taking the stock manifold off for the first time is HUGE pain in the ass with all the OBDII junk connected to it. When you do the homemade kit most of that junk is simplified into a few hoses, and as such taking the manifold off again would be a snap. With the kit, it will be just as big of a pain.

    You can do whatever you want. But I am going to spend my leftover $300 that I saved on something else.

  24. #24
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    yea you straight f-ed up if it idles bad, SHOULD be perfect idle.

    make sure you a) change ALL the fuel injector orings
    B) make sure ur connections all have clamps on them and
    c) you didnt crimp and break line swhen you put em on.
    spray carb spray on the suspect areas with engine running. best way to find leaks (without a smoke machine)

  25. #25
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    I did the m50 swap runs great but when I start the engine when is cold it runs really bad till it warms up has any one had this problem

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